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Posted: 10/2/2014 10:16:49 PM EDT
[#1]
I gave up on them when I couldn't get my pf-9 to go through a box of ammo without a hiccup. I tried, and tried, and tried, and tried some more. I gave up trying.
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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:01:07 AM EDT
[#2]
I think Kellgren is part of the problem, from what I've heard he does everything on his time, yes its his company, but maybe things will change once he is gone. They should really adopt Magpul;s new policy to not comment or announce new products until they are shipping.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 9:17:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Gotta agree. Can't see spending my money on their junk anymore either.
Finally decided to take the PMR30 out of the safe and actually carry it a little, with CCI varmint rounds, around the farm. In less than a day, the front sight has fallen off and I've lost the mag twice due to its less than optimal release location. My P3AT was junk from day one. Its never made it through a full mag without a malfunction. The LCP that replaced it has been perfect, for what it's worth. My SUB2K has only choked once in a few range trips but it has been pampered. It feels as cheap as the others and my opinion is that it would likely not hold up to hard use. I consider Keltec products nothing more than unreliable toys at this point. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:03:37 PM EDT
[#4]
I agree with it all OP
I would love to have a PMR RMR (or CMR since they changed the name of it) combo. That many rounds of .22 wmr are a very small and underestimated package. But if they cant put it on shelves and make them worth having when they do then whats the point? |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 2:23:17 PM EDT
[#5]
After a trip back to the factory, my pf9 runs great. It's a sad story that they can't get their great ideas to market and run reliably.
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Posted: 10/15/2014 8:28:27 PM EDT
[#6]
I make a living of turning failing operations around.........if they could only give me two weeks to see the prob I know I could identify the hiccups in the process of validating the company. Its just failing too much at this point. They are just "toys" not legitimate weapons.
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Posted: 10/17/2014 7:36:27 PM EDT
[#7]
I've had my P11 for over 10 years. I shoot it quite a bit. The slide started getting lots of up and down slop in it on the muzzle end. I sent it back for repair. It came back totally rebuilt, new frame, slide, springs and internals. The gun has always shot well and never jams. I love to carry it, super light. I really like this gun but I did wear it out.
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Posted: 10/24/2014 1:43:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... They are just "toys" not legitimate weapons. I'll have to respectfully, but vehemently, disagree with that last proclamation. I've owned at least one of just about every firearm they have made over the years, some of them have seem heavy carry/use. I've never yet had one catastrophically fail, and I've only had one that I gave up on/couldn't get to run reliably (PF-9). So either all the quality gripes are just a very loud minority, or I am just extremely lucky. 
Now, the production gripes are a different matter and totally legit, IMHO, but it's Mr. K's company and he can run it however he sees fit. While I respect his very conservative business approach, I'm like most other fans in wishing that they could ramp up production to meet demand and stave off all the "scalper pricing." |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 6:41:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Good and bad. My early model P3AT has never malfunctioned, but its trigger sucks hard.
The P40 works if I keep a death grip on it, and puts 10 rounds of .40 in a pocket pistol. Trigger sux too. The PMR30 would be fucking amazing if it would feed more than half a dozen rounds between jams. Maybe it's ammo. I yearn for a reliable version, and even (dare I?) For a .22lr version in a carbine with a telescoping wire stock. |
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Posted: 10/26/2014 7:04:37 PM EDT
[#10]
I tried out a PF9 and instead of running like a sewing machine it ran like a 3 cylinder engine with diarrhea. I couldn't even make it through a single magazine without some issue. I've never had an issue with a S&W and only a few issues with Colt, Springfield, Sig and Ruger. I think I will stick with what works.
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Posted: 10/26/2014 10:51:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
P.S. are RMR rifles ever coming out? Earlier in the year they were saying Q3-Q4 of this year. It has been renamed the "CMR30", just so you know what to keep an eye out for. RMR was too easy to confuse with the pistol they claimed. "C" for carbine instead of "R" for rifle presumably. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 11:22:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Earlier in the year they were saying Q3-Q4 of this year. It has been renamed the "CMR30", just so you know what to keep an eye out for. RMR was too easy to confuse with the pistol they claimed. "C" for carbine instead of "R" for rifle presumably. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
P.S. are RMR rifles ever coming out? Earlier in the year they were saying Q3-Q4 of this year. It has been renamed the "CMR30", just so you know what to keep an eye out for. RMR was too easy to confuse with the pistol they claimed. "C" for carbine instead of "R" for rifle presumably. FWIW: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/10/20/keltec-cmr30-carbine-nears-public-release/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2014-10-28&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter# |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 2:01:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
P.S. are RMR rifles ever coming out? Earlier in the year they were saying Q3-Q4 of this year. It has been renamed the "CMR30", just so you know what to keep an eye out for. RMR was too easy to confuse with the pistol they claimed. "C" for carbine instead of "R" for rifle presumably. FWIW: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2014/10/20/keltec-cmr30-carbine-nears-public-release/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2014-10-28&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter# KelTec just posted some info on their FB page: The big brother to the PMR-30... the CMR-30 (Carbine Magnum Rimfire) is now in production and shipping. The MSRP is $630. The specs are soon to follow. https://www.facebook.com/KelTecWeapons/photos/a.380146349639.158977.376139184639/10152833426889640/?type=1 KEL-TEC CMR-30 (Carbine Magnum Rimfire/30 Rounds)
MSRP $630 Blow-back Operated .22 WMR (.22 Magnum) Weight (unloaded) 3.8 pounds Barrel Length 16.15" Barrel Threads 1/2-28 TPI (Standard) Barrel Twist Rate 1 in 16" (SAAMI Standard) OAL (Stock Collapsed) 22.7" (Stock Extended) 30.6" Length of Pull 10.3" - 14.2" Width 1.2" (Max Across Op Handles) 2.9" Height 6'6 Trigger Weight (Approx) 4.5 Pounds Magpul MBUS included This carbine will accept the PMR-30, 30-Round magazines only. It features a multi-positional stock, a 1913 picatinny rail system on the top and bottom of the barrel, ambidextrous safety, ambidextrous magazine release (heel catch), ambidextrous stock release, ambidextrous sling loops, ambidextrous non-reciprocating operating handles, captive recoil system, single push out assembly pin, nitride-coated barrel, very low lock time (excellent accuracy), rigid aluminum upper assembly and polymer lower assembly. Yes... we have run it with a silencer and it's awesome. As always, check federal and local laws about owning silencers and magazine capacity. No full-auto versions are in production. Very disappointed in the MSRP, but that's pretty common for me anymore it seems. |
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Posted: 11/13/2014 4:40:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Still a good deal at $600 from what I'm seeing!
 Probably the closest thing to an MP7 clone out there.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 4:54:01 PM EDT
[#15]
I love em.
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Posted: 11/13/2014 5:14:22 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm number one on the waiting list at three local dealers. Hopefully the 1st
CMR-30 will be ok. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 12:46:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I make a living of turning failing operations around.........if they could only give me two weeks to see the prob I know I could identify the hiccups in the process of validating the company. Its just failing too much at this point. They are just "toys" not legitimate weapons. I never took Kel Tec seriously but have some interest in a PMR-30 since I've recently landed 1K of ammo for it. I bought the ammo for a rifle I have, but availability of the ammo opened the door for the PMR-30. I'm pretty good finding things online and have come up empty on the PMR. There are some out on gunbroker but I don't like paying a premium for anything much less a Kel Tec. In any event, my research turned up some interviews and commentaries that indicated Kel Tec has made a strategic decision to avoid bank financing for their business. Everything is financed through profits earned in the business and additional owner investment (not very likely at this stage). The article quoted Kel Tec management as saying "We pay cash". That's a good old fashioned business model, but it definitely stifles expansion. That is the most credible explanation I have seen. It's their prerogative - it's their business. Meanwhile, I went to my local old school gunshop and put myself on the wait list for a PMR-30. The price quoted was "around $350" and there are names still on the list that date back to 2012...... |
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Posted: 11/24/2014 9:48:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never took Kel Tec seriously but have some interest in a PMR-30 since I've recently landed 1K of ammo for it. I bought the ammo for a rifle I have, but availability of the ammo opened the door for the PMR-30. I'm pretty good finding things online and have come up empty on the PMR. There are some out on gunbroker but I don't like paying a premium for anything much less a Kel Tec. In any event, my research turned up some interviews and commentaries that indicated Kel Tec has made a strategic decision to avoid bank financing for their business. Everything is financed through profits earned in the business and additional owner investment (not very likely at this stage). The article quoted Kel Tec management as saying "We pay cash". That's a good old fashioned business model, but it definitely stifles expansion. That is the most credible explanation I have seen. It's their prerogative - it's their business. Meanwhile, I went to my local old school gunshop and put myself on the wait list for a PMR-30. The price quoted was "around $350" and there are names still on the list that date back to 2012...... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I make a living of turning failing operations around.........if they could only give me two weeks to see the prob I know I could identify the hiccups in the process of validating the company. Its just failing too much at this point. They are just "toys" not legitimate weapons. I never took Kel Tec seriously but have some interest in a PMR-30 since I've recently landed 1K of ammo for it. I bought the ammo for a rifle I have, but availability of the ammo opened the door for the PMR-30. I'm pretty good finding things online and have come up empty on the PMR. There are some out on gunbroker but I don't like paying a premium for anything much less a Kel Tec. In any event, my research turned up some interviews and commentaries that indicated Kel Tec has made a strategic decision to avoid bank financing for their business. Everything is financed through profits earned in the business and additional owner investment (not very likely at this stage). The article quoted Kel Tec management as saying "We pay cash". That's a good old fashioned business model, but it definitely stifles expansion. That is the most credible explanation I have seen. It's their prerogative - it's their business. Meanwhile, I went to my local old school gunshop and put myself on the wait list for a PMR-30. The price quoted was "around $350" and there are names still on the list that date back to 2012...... I bought mine from AIM a couple of years ago for $330ish. I've considered selling it at a premium but can't in good conscience. It's a fragile, unreliable toy. |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 12:13:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll have to respectfully, but vehemently, disagree with that last proclamation. I've owned at least one of just about every firearm they have made over the years, some of them have seem heavy carry/use. I've never yet had one catastrophically fail, and I've only had one that I gave up on/couldn't get to run reliably (PF-9). So either all the quality gripes are just a very loud minority, or I am just extremely lucky.
Now, the production gripes are a different matter and totally legit, IMHO, but it's Mr. K's company and he can run it however he sees fit. While I respect his very conservative business approach, I'm like most other fans in wishing that they could ramp up production to meet demand and stave off all the "scalper pricing." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... They are just "toys" not legitimate weapons. I'll have to respectfully, but vehemently, disagree with that last proclamation. I've owned at least one of just about every firearm they have made over the years, some of them have seem heavy carry/use. I've never yet had one catastrophically fail, and I've only had one that I gave up on/couldn't get to run reliably (PF-9). So either all the quality gripes are just a very loud minority, or I am just extremely lucky.
Now, the production gripes are a different matter and totally legit, IMHO, but it's Mr. K's company and he can run it however he sees fit. While I respect his very conservative business approach, I'm like most other fans in wishing that they could ramp up production to meet demand and stave off all the "scalper pricing." I think you were lucky......I owned a SU16 B all I did it seems is send it back to get fixed |
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Posted: 1/27/2015 10:01:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think you were lucky......I owned a SU16 B all I did it seems is send it back to get fixed Maybe so. My SU-16C ran like a champ the whole time I had it, zero issues, even shot it a bit suppressed. My only gripe was how hot it got under sustained or rapid fire, but not surprising given the design/size/weight. It folded and went places I couldn't take a standard AR and I didn't get rid of it until I had some SBRs that would pack and travel as well or better. |
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Posted: 2/1/2015 9:10:03 PM EDT
[#21]
I had a PF9 that ran great but I couldn't shoot it as well as I wanted. I'm on the list for a PMR30 locally. Fingers crossed it's reliable because it sounds like a gamble from the reviews.
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Posted: 2/13/2015 10:12:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Just to add some balance, I have a P3AT and a P32. Both run flawless. The trigger on the P3AT is pretty nasty, but the P32 is pretty smooth. It may have something to do with sending the P32 back for light primer strikes. What came back was polished and smooth. I'm happy with my Keltecs. I have many other guns including Glocks, Kahrs, Taurus and others. Keltec handguns certainly fit a particular niche. I do wish they would do a bit more finish on their guns before they go out the door. I don't know, maybe it's a case of won some lose some. With regards to Keltec, I'm in the won some column.
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Posted: 3/31/2015 5:36:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Kel-Tecs are "kit" guns. If you expect them to run great right out of the box you may be very disappointed. Their fit and finish, as well as QC, is piss poor. You get what you pay for and to get the quality of a LCP or more expensive piece you're going to pay more than Kel-Tec wants for their products.
Having said that I have been carrying a Kel-Tec for almost twenty years now. My P11 (later replaced with a PF-9) ran great as well as the wife's P32. This was only after correcting some well known problems and a complete disassembly and polish. I have about 1K through the PF-9 of 115 and 124 (cast) grain ammo (it will choke on the 147 stuff) and after repairing the firing pin problem it has been trouble free and very accurate, especially with the Crimson Trace laser. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:16:46 AM EDT
[#24]
I'm as big a fan of Kel-Tec as anyone here, but the likelyhood of me buying another is about slim to none. After waiting years for an RFB I ended up buying Ken's new M17S, and will be buying the .308 version when it comes out. The KSG lost out to a bullpup Saiga, and the PMR niche was filled by a 22TCM. At this point, there's really nothing that Kel-Tec makes that interests me; they squandered their innovation by not being able to meet demand, and now the market has caught up with comparable product that is actually available.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 8:02:28 PM EDT
[#25]
my concealed carry is a PF9 and it has been perfect. Now I did do the polish job on it right off the bat but zero jams and it does get used (as recently as 2 days ago at gun range. I do agree they are sloooooow to release products though.
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Posted: 4/27/2015 10:19:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I picked up a S2K in .40 Glock pattern
as a travel gun. I added a PA red dot and I really like it. The only failures so far has been that I tried some KCI 31 round mags. They look great, but won't run for poop. I also had some FTF's and a little motor oil from my Jeep and all was well again. I would love to have another in 9mm, but the guys in the Kel Tec booth in Nasheville said I probably wouldn't see one until the Gen 2's are out. I thought I would have some function issues, but so far, not bad for a great little compact weapon. It won't see a lot more range time other than an occasional pistol match for ongoing testing. But I too, am a little weary of their lack of commitment to the market. John |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 3:47:14 PM EDT
[#27]
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