I'm in the market for a carry gun and am trying to pare down my list a little. As far as Kel-Tecs go, would you guys recommend a PF9 or a P11?

I've read that of the two, the PF9 has the better trigger and the sights on the P11 are not as good. Aside from the obvious capacity differences is there any other pluses or minuses to either gun? How does the functional quality and reliability of Kel-Tecs compare to other guns on my list, Beretta, S&W, Ruger and Springfield?

I  know the PF9 mags fall out when there is a full mag and you fire the first round. and the sights on the one I shot were off, but that could just be on the one I shot, but the mag falling out happens a lot on most of them I have seen

I've had my PF9 for two years now and have never had the mag fall out while firing, I also know multiple other owners who haven't had that issue, the one you shot must have bee a bad apple, at one point Kel Tec didn't have the best QC but they are running a tighter ship now.

OP you may want to try KTOG for a more in depth response to your question, I personally have the PF9 and love it. As far as specs go I'm pretty sure the PF9 is still the lightest and slimest 9mm in its category.

I had both, actually I have had 4 P11s, on and off. I liked the capacity of the P11, and
they were all reliable, but the trigger pull was just a damn mess. I`m sure I could hit
a reasonably large target if it was in the same room, but it was just plain hard to shoot
well. After working hard to hit the target at 20 yds, I gave up and sold the last one.
Still, not the worst gun I ever had.
The PF9 I have is very reliable, it shoots dang near everything well, has a good trigger,
and hides under a tshirt. I carry it every day with Corbon DPX 115 grain HPs.
A while back I had a kydex holster made for it that carries it at a more extreme angle,
somewhere about 30 degrees. Its fast as heck to get out, it hides exceedingly well,
and I can draw it while seated in my pickup. It doesn`t hold as many bullets as the
P11 does, but its a lot easier to shoot well.
The mag has never fell out, and the gun has never broken. My Glocks have never
blowed up either.....

hope this helps
scruff

P11.  Ive carried one for a few years now. No fluff and buff.  I put a trigger shoe on it and the steel guide rod.  Have about 350 rds threw it of all kinds of ammo. always runs great.  easy to carry  I use a DeSantis nylon IWB holster  usually in apex position.  10 + 1  with a 14rd S&W 5900 stainless mag for a reload. I  have friends that used to knock Keltec until they put a few through mine.    I also painted the front dot bright orange.

I've had a P11 since 2003, I still carry it pretty much all the time.  Simple, easy to clean, and you can take the whole thing apart pretty easily.



I've had 1 firing pin break (after a TON of rounds thru it), 1 ejector, 3 slide stops (fault of a poor follower in an aftermarket magazine, tho), and 2 frame pins.  I've put a few thousand rounds thru this thing, used to go to the range with 200+ rounds to shoot, back when bullets and primers were cheap.



It's a cheap gun, sure, but KelTec stands behind their products 100%, never had to pay for replacement parts, and they've shipped them quickly.



I've never shot a PF9, but obviously, GZ proved that they do the job.  I would rather have something just a smidge bigger, and have 10 7 rounds in the magazine.  Adding the mag pinky extension was a good investment.



My vote is for the P11.  Saw a used one at a LGS for $269 with the hard chrome slide.

How does Kel-Tec quality and reliability compare?

Edit to add, I'm know they have a good warranty but have read some suspect things about quality. Is this just overblown internet rumors because they are "cheap" guns or legitimate? Would you trust a Kel-Tec over or equal to a Beretta, Ruger, S&W, or Springfield?

I would trust a Kel Tec, I carry my PF9 everyday. I visited their facility a few months ago and they openly admitted they had QC issues in the past and that they have done a complete overhaul in that department and have much stricter standards and practices now. I think where a lot of complaints come from is from people expecting more out of the gun than it is made for, for example the PF9 is not meant to be shot thousands of times like a Glock, its just not built for that, its a great carry gun but not something you want to shoot all day at the range. I can't comment on other guns since I don't have experience with them but Ruger ripped their LC9 off of the PF9.

I have a PF9 that I occasionally carry.  I trust it, but I have put at least 200-250 rounds through it before I carried it.  No issues with it at all.  The grip can be a bit sharp in places, but I sanded down the mold lines and other sharp areas.

Never had that happen with mine.

 

I have never had this problem either.

I would go PF9, as I don't understand the point of a pocket pistol that is then too wide to fit in your pocket (yes I pocket carry my PF9)  

If you won't CCW it, then more rounds sounds nice, but then I would just get something with a full grip.  The thin single stack helps a bunch for comfortable carry, I forget I have it with me sometimes.

Just saw this..
Since I carry my PF9, heck yes I trust it.  I trust it to function just as good as a S&W.


However, the trigger takes a lot of time to get good with (if ever).  I am thinking of getting a S&W Shield because my PF9 cant hit a barn at 25 yards.  Up close its fine, but I want something that can handle longer shots as well.  I liked my SW M&P9, so I think the Shield is good.  
Make sure to try guns out if possible before buying.  The PF9 trigger is similar to a DA revolver

I vote for the Pf9 based on weight and comfort when carrying.

Mine was perfectly reliable. I since went to pocket carry and P3AT.

Get the PF9.  I've had mine for 3 years and it is my daily carry.  I've never had the mag drop out, don't have issues with failure to eject or failure to fire. My personal opinion is that many of these issues are operator error.  A friend of mine went to the range with me.  He could not fire my PF9 without it jamming.  He was simply limp wristing it, as I had zero problems.  It is a bit snappy, as others have mentioned, and the factory grip is not too user friendly, without a little sanding, a Houge sleeve, or a piece of bicycle tube.  Any of the three makes a major difference.  Go get you one.....you'll not regret it.

I use the small Hogue sleeve, as the above poster mentioned.

Huge plus for me.  My PF9 had no rough edges, but the grip pattern and the small size don't make it supper comfortable for range use.  The Hogue grip allows me to get much better purchase on the grip, and allows me to concentrate on trigger pull above all else.

Highly recommend trying it for the $8 cost..  Also, I now have  +1 mags, which I use unless I pocket carry.  I bring along one 7rd, and one 8rd, so I can switch back and forth depending upon concealment needed.  

+1 and Hogue grip makes it much nicer to point and shoot

had both, keeped the P11

I had a PF9 about a year.  After the first 50 rds through it, it started not extracting once or so every mag.  After different springs and extractors and polishing I gave up.  Traded it for a Kahr CW9 which is alot nicer.

I've had a PF9 for almost a year now and pocket carry it everywhere, although I'm looking into to IWB options as well now that the cargo shorts are being put away for a while.

Not to echo all the previous posters, but it's not a really enjoyable pistol to shoot, it's meant to carry a lot and shoot a little instead of the other way around.  It's snappy (my wife shot one round and handed it right back lol), and the trigger pull is loooong with an almost as long reset.  The pull is a plus for me as it's my EDC pistol.  My other CC pistol is a *takes deep breath* CZ75 P07 Duty that has a long-ish DA pull for the first shot and I personally prefer the "extra insurance" the longer pull gives over a striker fired pistol.  I have a Glock 21 with a light as my nightstand pistol, but for CC, I opt for the longer pull.

I have a Hogue grip on it and wouldn't have it any other way.  It needed a very small amount of trimming to make it fit perfectly but that was no problem.  I have noticed that it tends to creep down and impede seating a new magazine after a range session so I need to trim it a little more but haven't yet.  It's not an issue until you're a few magazines into it.  There were some edges that needed a gentle sanding to alleviate for comfort.

The only negative I have/had with it is that mine does not like 147 gr Golden Saber.  Every other round would misfeed, and one time it actually ejected the empty cartridge AND the next live round from the magazine, before properly chambering the second round down.  Very odd for sure but switching to a ligher grain has led to 0 issues.  If I'd done some googling, I would have avoided that problem as it seems to be something several people have had issues with.

My Pf-9 with a TLR-3 is my EDC. Never had the mag fall out while firing. Sights are on. I will say if you buy one, get some snap caps and dry fire practice ALOT. The trigger pull is very long. I'm going to try the Northwood aluminum trigger and Galloway precision hammer/firing pin springs to see if they help the trigger pull.

I've had my P11 for about 5 years now and I have had no problems at all ! it is easy to clean, take apart and really easy to conceal ! I never really liked automatic handguns. I prefer to have revolvers. I would suggest the P11.

I have put hundreds and hundreds of JHP through my PF9 with no issue. Fed FMJ also flawless.  Only malfunctions I ever had were with WWB, and when I took some sample WWB to my micrometer, I was shocked at the variance in OAL with that load. Some rounds were just too long and would drag up the magazine.

Grip was brutal, especially one handed. But as others have said, best $9 investment was a Hogue slip on grip installed upside down with a little trimming.  I can easily stay on target, even with one hand, and keep a firm grip, which is critical in such a light gun.  It is my to and from work briefcase gun.

Idk about the PF9 but I can say my P11 has been excellent for the money I paid.

I have had a P11 for about 20years. It was an early production disaster but using KTOG and my considerable metalworking capabilities I recreated it into a nice carry piece. I wish they would have just made a single stack grip for the P11 but no such luck. If you are planning on regular carry go with a single stack. Believe me the grip size makes a difference. My newer compacts have been Rugers and I have felt no need whatsoever to go at them with presses, mills and dremmels.

I love my new model pf9 trigger is better fit is a little better the molding is better as well.


p11 has a stiffer trigger is wider and not worth the scale down over a g26

I use to have a p11. A little big for pocket carry. Also, you can mod the mags to hold 12 rounds.

My only pistol (so far :) ) is a P-11. It's somewhere between the size of a full-sized pistol and a tuck gun like the PF9 (I don't know what the official lingo is, but I call it a "subcompact"). I'm 6'2" and I wouldn't want to CC a pistol larger than the P-11, unless I could go jacket and shoulder holster all the time. That said, it's a pretty good size for CC, given the amount of firepower you get with a 12 round mag.

The sights aren't an issue for me. I can hit bottles with it from 50' all day long. That's good enough for what it's for; CC self-defense.

Since it's the only pistol I've ever owned, I can't really give you much perspective on the trigger pull. What I can tell you that it has very consistent travel, and once you get used to it, you should be able to see pretty good accuracy (in SD ranges, at least) from the gun. That was my experience, anyway. After some dry firing and a few mags worth of practice, you'll know when the trigger is all the way back and about to fire. That's when you'll see your accuracy improve.

I like the long trigger pull, because I appendix carry with the clip, no holster. You want a stiff trigger under those circumstances.

If you are average size or bigger, and you want a primary CC weapon, I'd go with the P-11. If you have a small frame, you might want to go with the PF9. If you want a backup weapon, the PF9 might be a better choice.

Edit: I have heard that limp-wristing the gun can cause FTE. I've not had it happen, but damn if it didn't happen once when my sister tried it out. She hadn't fired a pistol prior to that, so I figure it might be true, and she limp-wristed it. YMMV.

Edit: another thing to consider, I hear P-11 with it's 3.1" bbl, can give a mighty kick with hot SD rounds. Just FMJ for me, so far. But since you're choosing between two small weapons, you don't care about that.

I had a P11. It was awful. I'm so glad it's gone. Scrimp elsewhere. If you need a gun that size, get one that is better than the PF9 or the P11.

An LEO trade in gun or a used Smith revolver would be way better in my personal experience.

Forgot to mention, I heard Kel-Tec says that the P-11 is rated for hot loads, but not on a consistent basis.

A PF9 has been my carry gun for several years...went bang every time at the range and has really been a good choice for me.  ...that is until the Glock 43 showed up.

While I like capacity, the point of a compact is concealability.  The PF9 is nice and slim and has the option of the clip-- that's what sold me.  Here's what I've since learned:  the recoil is sharp, but this isn't a competition gun, so that is moot.  The trigger is long and heavy, but smooth.  Again, not a competition gun.  The sights are there, but might as well be milled into the slide because there are no upgrades.  I would prefer a tritium dot and would settle for a fiberoptic, but neither are options.  So practice, practice, practice for muscle memory.  On the upside, the gun disappears.  The clip is great for grab-n-go, especially under unforgiving business attire.  However, I live in the jungle and sweat and humidity are present 10 months out of the year, so the blued slide began to rust.  Just a couple of small spots and I was able to catch them.  Then I found the Sticky holster and everything has been fine.  With the Sticky I still have grab-n-go, plus the option of pocket carry; like having a fat wallet.  The only thing I've changed is the spur baseplate to the flat baseplate.  While I've read posts about issues with KelTecs, I have had zero in four years.  I can make fist-sized groups with it at 10 yds.  No failures/malfunctions in function/feeding.  No mags popping out.  No guide rods binding.  No sights popping off.  No frames cracking.  If I don't have my 1911, I have my PF9.  Comparatively, the only thing I was able to do to my Glock was the sights and the trigger. And even that still sucks.  I tried putting in an extended mag release, but whether aftermarket or factory, I still had issues with megs popping out because the catch would not engage and the polymer catch was chewing the polymer mags.  Then there's the whole bad grip-angle thing.  The Glock has been relegated to "safe queen" for almost 16 years because there are so many guns that are better.

The P11 does have the ability to use 5900 S&W series mags so that's good

Other than that for the price there are better options for an EDC IMO

The Ruger LCP can be had for $199 now.

A Ruger LC9 not much more.

13 rounds in the P-11 sold me

Me too.  I don't regret it, but I kind of wish I got the PF9 instead.  I have enough options now that are easy enough to carry and conceal if I want the extra rounds, but I'd like to have something small for deep concealment with more oomph than an LCP.  I tried to get both with the P11, but it doesn't have the capacity of the G19 or the size of the PF9 or LCP.

I had both and sold the P-9, I like the second strike on the p-11 too.

Lucky enough to work at an LGS, had a PF9 and a P11 walk in on trade. They agreed on what we offered them tradewise, and I wound up buying them. P11 has the belt clip, trigger shoe, and over travel stop. The PF9 has some extra slide rattle, so its on the way to Keltec. I did order new recoil springs, and the metal guide rod. Had both at different times before, so glad to have them back. Like them both, but like the PF9 a little better. If you add the +1, you have as many rounds as a P225

Neither. Look at SCCY CPX2. Very simlialr to a P11 but a much nicer pistol at the same price point. I love mine, I had a P11and it has some issues and was just overall not near as well made as my SCCY. Jme