User Panel
[#1]
I'm glad you like your new CZ, not sure what the hell Gaston did to you though.
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[#2]
Glocks can do that too, and better, simply that the CZ works better for you.
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[#3]
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[#4]
Considering that most self defense shootings occur in significantly less than 7 yards, do you really think a small difference in accuracy is one of the main criteria in selecting a pistol?
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[#5]
Quoted:
Considering that most self defense shootings occur in significantly less than 7 yards, do you really think a small difference in accuracy is one of the main criteria in selecting a pistol? View Quote Reliability is most important. Seeing as how the P01 passed NATO tests with flying colors, I think the 75 has that covered. But, I'll take any accuracy edge I can get. |
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[#6]
Quoted:
Reliability is most important. Seeing as how the P01 passed NATO tests with flying colors, I think the 75 has that covered. But, I'll take any accuracy edge I can get. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Considering that most self defense shootings occur in significantly less than 7 yards, do you really think a small difference in accuracy is one of the main criteria in selecting a pistol? Reliability is most important. Seeing as how the P01 passed NATO tests with flying colors, I think the 75 has that covered. But, I'll take any accuracy edge I can get. Check nsn 1005-19-001-1670 I sold all my Glocks though and replaced them with CZ's |
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[#7]
There was no NATO testing of the P-01. The testing was conducted by the Czech national police. NATO issued the P-01 a NATO stock number which doesn't require any testing, it simply identifies parts for the NATO material supply system.
However, CZ cleverly talks about the NATO stock number assignment and the Czech national police testing in the same write up, hoping that careless readers will wrongly conclude that their P-01 passed some sort of rigorous NATO testing. Please reread the CZ write up and you will discover more than one reference to "police" testing and "police" requirements. Nowhere will you find a reference to NATO testing. I'm glad you like your P-01. I know I like mine. However, I've dealt with CZ-USA. They're a handful of amateurs in Kansas City who have difficulty answering the phone. Comparing them to a company that remade the world handgun industry is ludicrous. |
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[#8]
Quoted:
There was no NATO testing of the P-01. The testing was conducted by the Czech national police. NATO issued the P-01 a NATO stock number which doesn't require any testing, it simply identifies parts for the NATO material supply system. However, CZ cleverly talks about the NATO stock number assignment and the Czech national police testing in the same write up, hoping that careless readers will wrongly conclude that their P-01 passed some sort of rigorous NATO testing. Please reread the CZ write up and you will discover more than one reference to "police" testing and "police" requirements. Nowhere will you find a reference to NATO testing. I'm glad you like your P-01. I know I like mine. However, I've dealt with CZ-USA. They're a handful of amateurs in Kansas City who have difficulty answering the phone. Comparing them to a company that remade the world handgun industry is ludicrous. View Quote I read your other thread and it sounds like you got a lemon. I put 200 rounds through mine yesterday consisting of 115 gr FMJ reloads, 90 gr gold dot reloads, 147 gr gold dot reloads, and factory 147 gr federal hi shock hp's without a hiccup. On the other hand, my Glock 19 that I bought new in 2011, had erratic ejection issues, would throw brass at my face, and stovepipe every couple hundred rounds. I took it to Smryna and an armorer replaced the 336 ejector with the updated 30274 ejector. That helped a little, but was still getting erratic ejection. I tried an Apex extractor and white sound hred to no avail. In the end, I concluded the slide was probably out of spec. In all reality, Glock should have replaced the handgun. Instead, when someone sends a gun to Glock with problems, they install updated parts, fire a mag through the gun, and send it back with a letter saying it meets spec. Here we are 4 years after Glock ejection issues popped up and they still haven't corrected the issue. Early on, the problems were isolated to the 9mm guns, but now I personally know people that have had issues with current 40 cal and 45 models. L prefix models manufactured in early 2009 and prior don't seem to have these issues. Glock of today is not the same Glock of the past. I haven't had any dealings with CZ-USA, but I seriously doubt their customer service dept is any worse than Glock's. |
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[#9]
Maybe you just don't shoot Glocks well?
No offense, but at 7 yards, I would be able to shoot that group with just about any quality pistol, over, and over, and over.... I'm glad you like and trust the pistol you have chosen, however. |
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[#10]
Quoted:
Maybe you just don't shoot Glocks well? No offense, but at 7 yards, I would be able to shoot that group with just about any quality pistol, over, and over, and over.... I'm glad you like and trust the pistol you have chosen, however. View Quote No offense taken. I admitted to being a lousy pistol shooter. The only other gun I have that shoots that well for me is a Springfield 1911. |
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[#11]
Quoted:
I read your other thread and it sounds like you got a lemon. I put 200 rounds through mine yesterday consisting of 115 gr FMJ reloads, 90 gr gold dot reloads, 147 gr gold dot reloads, and factory 147 gr federal hi shock hp's without a hiccup. On the other hand, my Glock 19 that I bought new in 2011, had erratic ejection issues, would throw brass at my face, and stovepipe every couple hundred rounds. I took it to Smryna and an armorer replaced the 336 ejector with the updated 30274 ejector. That helped a little, but was still getting erratic ejection. I tried an Apex extractor and white sound hred to no avail. In the end, I concluded the slide was probably out of spec. In all reality, Glock should have replaced the handgun. Instead, when someone sends a gun to Glock with problems, they install updated parts, fire a mag through the gun, and send it back with a letter saying it meets spec. Here we are 4 years after Glock ejection issues popped up and they still haven't corrected the issue. Early on, the problems were isolated to the 9mm guns, but now I personally know people that have had issues with current 40 cal and 45 models. L prefix models manufactured in early 2009 and prior don't seem to have these issues. Glock of today is not the same Glock of the past. I haven't had any dealings with CZ-USA, but I seriously doubt their customer service dept is any worse than Glock's. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
There was no NATO testing of the P-01. The testing was conducted by the Czech national police. NATO issued the P-01 a NATO stock number which doesn't require any testing, it simply identifies parts for the NATO material supply system. However, CZ cleverly talks about the NATO stock number assignment and the Czech national police testing in the same write up, hoping that careless readers will wrongly conclude that their P-01 passed some sort of rigorous NATO testing. Please reread the CZ write up and you will discover more than one reference to "police" testing and "police" requirements. Nowhere will you find a reference to NATO testing. I'm glad you like your P-01. I know I like mine. However, I've dealt with CZ-USA. They're a handful of amateurs in Kansas City who have difficulty answering the phone. Comparing them to a company that remade the world handgun industry is ludicrous. I read your other thread and it sounds like you got a lemon. I put 200 rounds through mine yesterday consisting of 115 gr FMJ reloads, 90 gr gold dot reloads, 147 gr gold dot reloads, and factory 147 gr federal hi shock hp's without a hiccup. On the other hand, my Glock 19 that I bought new in 2011, had erratic ejection issues, would throw brass at my face, and stovepipe every couple hundred rounds. I took it to Smryna and an armorer replaced the 336 ejector with the updated 30274 ejector. That helped a little, but was still getting erratic ejection. I tried an Apex extractor and white sound hred to no avail. In the end, I concluded the slide was probably out of spec. In all reality, Glock should have replaced the handgun. Instead, when someone sends a gun to Glock with problems, they install updated parts, fire a mag through the gun, and send it back with a letter saying it meets spec. Here we are 4 years after Glock ejection issues popped up and they still haven't corrected the issue. Early on, the problems were isolated to the 9mm guns, but now I personally know people that have had issues with current 40 cal and 45 models. L prefix models manufactured in early 2009 and prior don't seem to have these issues. Glock of today is not the same Glock of the past. I haven't had any dealings with CZ-USA, but I seriously doubt their customer service dept is any worse than Glock's. Yes, Glock stumbled badly with their Gen 4 pistols and some of their later Gen 3 9mm's like your G19. Also, IMO they did not handle the problems as well as they should have. However, it seems that these problems are behind them. One truism with Glocks is that the surest bet are the 9mm guns. The problem with users like us reporting problems with their guns is that all of our reports are anecdotal - none of us individually use these guns enough to have statistically significant data. You had problems with your G19, but my three G19's have been flawless for 10 years and thousands of rounds. That's why I titled my thread "observations" instead of something like "all CZs are crap". It also depends upon what is important to you. For me, reliability and maintainability, are more important than accuracy and ergonomics. All my Glocks are 9mm and I have $2000 in spare parts for them. Because Glocks are so easy for the user to maintain and I have spares for almost everything, I'm not dependent upon the Glock factory. This would be very difficult to do with CZs. Of course, now that I have all these spare parts, none of my Glocks has broken anything There is a good source for statistically significant data on guns. The big trainers and ranges occasionally post their experiences. These reports are usually fairly objective, unlike CZ "reporting" on mythical NATO testing. As luck would have it, Ron Cheney (username HendersonDefense) recently posted two threads right here on AR15.com based on his experiences at his range in Las Vegas. Apparently, this range is a big operation where they use 150k-180k rounds of handgun ammo A MONTH! They have handguns that have accumulated 100k+ rounds. His other thread is about AK variants. Both threads are really excellent discussions comparing not only handgun makes, but also specific types of problems. I would say that his accounts are the best summary of statistically significant data that I've ever seen anywhere. His AK variant thread is particularly good if you're interested in AKs. Cheney did say that Glocks are the most reliable guns in their inventory. I haven't had to use Glock customer service, but I have used S&W, Ruger, Remington, DSA, and CZ customer service. Customer service seems to vary depending on who answers the phone. I'll just say that CZ's CS was by far the worst and leave it at that. |
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[#12]
Quoted:
Yes, Glock stumbled badly with their Gen 4 pistols and some of their later Gen 3 9mm's like your G19. Also, IMO they did not handle the problems as well as they should have. However, it seems that these problems are behind them. One truism with Glocks is that the surest bet are the 9mm guns. The problem with users like us reporting problems with their guns is that all of our reports are anecdotal - none of us individually use these guns enough to have statistically significant data. You had problems with your G19, but my three G19's have been flawless for 10 years and thousands of rounds. That's why I titled my thread "observations" instead of something like "all CZs are crap". It also depends upon what is important to you. For me, reliability and maintainability, are more important than accuracy and ergonomics. All my Glocks are 9mm and I have $2000 in spare parts for them. Because Glocks are so easy for the user to maintain and I have spares for almost everything, I'm not dependent upon the Glock factory. This would be very difficult to do with CZs. Of course, now that I have all these spare parts, none of my Glocks has broken anything There is a good source for statistically significant data on guns. The big trainers and ranges occasionally post their experiences. These reports are usually fairly objective, unlike CZ "reporting" on mythical NATO testing. As luck would have it, Ron Cheney (username HendersonDefense) recently posted two threads right here on AR15.com based on his experiences at his range in Las Vegas. Apparently, this range is a big operation where they use 150k-180k rounds of handgun ammo A MONTH! They have handguns that have accumulated 100k+ rounds. His other thread is about AK variants. Both threads are really excellent discussions comparing not only handgun makes, but also specific types of problems. I would say that his accounts are the best summary of statistically significant data that I've ever seen anywhere. His AK variant thread is particularly good if you're interested in AKs. Cheney did say that Glocks are the most reliable guns in their inventory. I haven't had to use Glock customer service, but I have used S&W, Ruger, Remington, DSA, and CZ customer service. Customer service seems to vary depending on who answers the phone. I'll just say that CZ's CS was by far the worst and leave it at that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was no NATO testing of the P-01. The testing was conducted by the Czech national police. NATO issued the P-01 a NATO stock number which doesn't require any testing, it simply identifies parts for the NATO material supply system. However, CZ cleverly talks about the NATO stock number assignment and the Czech national police testing in the same write up, hoping that careless readers will wrongly conclude that their P-01 passed some sort of rigorous NATO testing. Please reread the CZ write up and you will discover more than one reference to "police" testing and "police" requirements. Nowhere will you find a reference to NATO testing. I'm glad you like your P-01. I know I like mine. However, I've dealt with CZ-USA. They're a handful of amateurs in Kansas City who have difficulty answering the phone. Comparing them to a company that remade the world handgun industry is ludicrous. I read your other thread and it sounds like you got a lemon. I put 200 rounds through mine yesterday consisting of 115 gr FMJ reloads, 90 gr gold dot reloads, 147 gr gold dot reloads, and factory 147 gr federal hi shock hp's without a hiccup. On the other hand, my Glock 19 that I bought new in 2011, had erratic ejection issues, would throw brass at my face, and stovepipe every couple hundred rounds. I took it to Smryna and an armorer replaced the 336 ejector with the updated 30274 ejector. That helped a little, but was still getting erratic ejection. I tried an Apex extractor and white sound hred to no avail. In the end, I concluded the slide was probably out of spec. In all reality, Glock should have replaced the handgun. Instead, when someone sends a gun to Glock with problems, they install updated parts, fire a mag through the gun, and send it back with a letter saying it meets spec. Here we are 4 years after Glock ejection issues popped up and they still haven't corrected the issue. Early on, the problems were isolated to the 9mm guns, but now I personally know people that have had issues with current 40 cal and 45 models. L prefix models manufactured in early 2009 and prior don't seem to have these issues. Glock of today is not the same Glock of the past. I haven't had any dealings with CZ-USA, but I seriously doubt their customer service dept is any worse than Glock's. Yes, Glock stumbled badly with their Gen 4 pistols and some of their later Gen 3 9mm's like your G19. Also, IMO they did not handle the problems as well as they should have. However, it seems that these problems are behind them. One truism with Glocks is that the surest bet are the 9mm guns. The problem with users like us reporting problems with their guns is that all of our reports are anecdotal - none of us individually use these guns enough to have statistically significant data. You had problems with your G19, but my three G19's have been flawless for 10 years and thousands of rounds. That's why I titled my thread "observations" instead of something like "all CZs are crap". It also depends upon what is important to you. For me, reliability and maintainability, are more important than accuracy and ergonomics. All my Glocks are 9mm and I have $2000 in spare parts for them. Because Glocks are so easy for the user to maintain and I have spares for almost everything, I'm not dependent upon the Glock factory. This would be very difficult to do with CZs. Of course, now that I have all these spare parts, none of my Glocks has broken anything There is a good source for statistically significant data on guns. The big trainers and ranges occasionally post their experiences. These reports are usually fairly objective, unlike CZ "reporting" on mythical NATO testing. As luck would have it, Ron Cheney (username HendersonDefense) recently posted two threads right here on AR15.com based on his experiences at his range in Las Vegas. Apparently, this range is a big operation where they use 150k-180k rounds of handgun ammo A MONTH! They have handguns that have accumulated 100k+ rounds. His other thread is about AK variants. Both threads are really excellent discussions comparing not only handgun makes, but also specific types of problems. I would say that his accounts are the best summary of statistically significant data that I've ever seen anywhere. His AK variant thread is particularly good if you're interested in AKs. Cheney did say that Glocks are the most reliable guns in their inventory. I haven't had to use Glock customer service, but I have used S&W, Ruger, Remington, DSA, and CZ customer service. Customer service seems to vary depending on who answers the phone. I'll just say that CZ's CS was by far the worst and leave it at that. I haven't seen his handgun thread, but I did read the AK thread and saw where the NPAP failed miserably. That is disheartening as I have a NPAP. I do have a Saiga that was actually converted by Henderson Defense and they did a heck of a job. I do like the Glock platform, but refuse to buy any Glock made in 2010 or later. I took possession of an L prefix 19 with OD frame with 2007 test fire date and another L prefix 19 with Austrian proof marks that date to 2008 this week. Took them to the range yesterday and they were flawless. No erratic ejection, no brass to the face and they had the original 336 ejector. I also have an older 20SF on the way. I live an hour and a half from the Glock factoy in Smyrna. Back in March, I took a Gen 2.5 26 to them to have night sights installed. When the armorer saw the gun, he replied, "Oh, that is an older one. That is not necessarily a bad thing". That was a fairly telling statement. Anyway, I would send your gun back to CZ and let them fix it rather than tinker with it. Unlike Glock, I have read that CZ will cover shipping both ways. |
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[#13]
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[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm so impressed with the accuracy and lack of recoil that I am already planning for a 2nd CZ, either a P01 or P07 http://i.imgur.com/VtWH5wL.jpg P07 for sure What is the difference between the standard P07 and P07 Duty? Also, it that a P09 mag you have in the gun? |
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[#15]
Quoted:
I haven't seen his handgun thread, but I did read the AK thread and saw where the NPAP failed miserably. That is disheartening as I have a NPAP. I do have a Saiga that was actually converted by Henderson Defense and they did a heck of a job. I do like the Glock platform, but refuse to buy any Glock made in 2010 or later. I took possession of an L prefix 19 with OD frame with 2007 test fire date and another L prefix 19 with Austrian proof marks that date to 2008 this week. Took them to the range yesterday and they were flawless. No erratic ejection, no brass to the face and they had the original 336 ejector. I also have an older 20SF on the way. I live an hour and a half from the Glock factoy in Smyrna. Back in March, I took a Gen 2.5 26 to them to have night sights installed. When the armorer saw the gun, he replied, "Oh, that is an older one. That is not necessarily a bad thing". That was a fairly telling statement. Anyway, I would send your gun back to CZ and let them fix it rather than tinker with it. Unlike Glock, I have read that CZ will cover shipping both ways. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was no NATO testing of the P-01. The testing was conducted by the Czech national police. NATO issued the P-01 a NATO stock number which doesn't require any testing, it simply identifies parts for the NATO material supply system. However, CZ cleverly talks about the NATO stock number assignment and the Czech national police testing in the same write up, hoping that careless readers will wrongly conclude that their P-01 passed some sort of rigorous NATO testing. Please reread the CZ write up and you will discover more than one reference to "police" testing and "police" requirements. Nowhere will you find a reference to NATO testing. I'm glad you like your P-01. I know I like mine. However, I've dealt with CZ-USA. They're a handful of amateurs in Kansas City who have difficulty answering the phone. Comparing them to a company that remade the world handgun industry is ludicrous. I read your other thread and it sounds like you got a lemon. I put 200 rounds through mine yesterday consisting of 115 gr FMJ reloads, 90 gr gold dot reloads, 147 gr gold dot reloads, and factory 147 gr federal hi shock hp's without a hiccup. On the other hand, my Glock 19 that I bought new in 2011, had erratic ejection issues, would throw brass at my face, and stovepipe every couple hundred rounds. I took it to Smryna and an armorer replaced the 336 ejector with the updated 30274 ejector. That helped a little, but was still getting erratic ejection. I tried an Apex extractor and white sound hred to no avail. In the end, I concluded the slide was probably out of spec. In all reality, Glock should have replaced the handgun. Instead, when someone sends a gun to Glock with problems, they install updated parts, fire a mag through the gun, and send it back with a letter saying it meets spec. Here we are 4 years after Glock ejection issues popped up and they still haven't corrected the issue. Early on, the problems were isolated to the 9mm guns, but now I personally know people that have had issues with current 40 cal and 45 models. L prefix models manufactured in early 2009 and prior don't seem to have these issues. Glock of today is not the same Glock of the past. I haven't had any dealings with CZ-USA, but I seriously doubt their customer service dept is any worse than Glock's. Yes, Glock stumbled badly with their Gen 4 pistols and some of their later Gen 3 9mm's like your G19. Also, IMO they did not handle the problems as well as they should have. However, it seems that these problems are behind them. One truism with Glocks is that the surest bet are the 9mm guns. The problem with users like us reporting problems with their guns is that all of our reports are anecdotal - none of us individually use these guns enough to have statistically significant data. You had problems with your G19, but my three G19's have been flawless for 10 years and thousands of rounds. That's why I titled my thread "observations" instead of something like "all CZs are crap". It also depends upon what is important to you. For me, reliability and maintainability, are more important than accuracy and ergonomics. All my Glocks are 9mm and I have $2000 in spare parts for them. Because Glocks are so easy for the user to maintain and I have spares for almost everything, I'm not dependent upon the Glock factory. This would be very difficult to do with CZs. Of course, now that I have all these spare parts, none of my Glocks has broken anything There is a good source for statistically significant data on guns. The big trainers and ranges occasionally post their experiences. These reports are usually fairly objective, unlike CZ "reporting" on mythical NATO testing. As luck would have it, Ron Cheney (username HendersonDefense) recently posted two threads right here on AR15.com based on his experiences at his range in Las Vegas. Apparently, this range is a big operation where they use 150k-180k rounds of handgun ammo A MONTH! They have handguns that have accumulated 100k+ rounds. His other thread is about AK variants. Both threads are really excellent discussions comparing not only handgun makes, but also specific types of problems. I would say that his accounts are the best summary of statistically significant data that I've ever seen anywhere. His AK variant thread is particularly good if you're interested in AKs. Cheney did say that Glocks are the most reliable guns in their inventory. I haven't had to use Glock customer service, but I have used S&W, Ruger, Remington, DSA, and CZ customer service. Customer service seems to vary depending on who answers the phone. I'll just say that CZ's CS was by far the worst and leave it at that. I haven't seen his handgun thread, but I did read the AK thread and saw where the NPAP failed miserably. That is disheartening as I have a NPAP. I do have a Saiga that was actually converted by Henderson Defense and they did a heck of a job. I do like the Glock platform, but refuse to buy any Glock made in 2010 or later. I took possession of an L prefix 19 with OD frame with 2007 test fire date and another L prefix 19 with Austrian proof marks that date to 2008 this week. Took them to the range yesterday and they were flawless. No erratic ejection, no brass to the face and they had the original 336 ejector. I also have an older 20SF on the way. I live an hour and a half from the Glock factoy in Smyrna. Back in March, I took a Gen 2.5 26 to them to have night sights installed. When the armorer saw the gun, he replied, "Oh, that is an older one. That is not necessarily a bad thing". That was a fairly telling statement. Anyway, I would send your gun back to CZ and let them fix it rather than tinker with it. Unlike Glock, I have read that CZ will cover shipping both ways. Yes, the AK thread contained some surprises. I have several Zastava AKs and really like them. Conventional AK wisdom is that the Yugo AKs are a cut above WASRs, but Cheney found otherwise. My G19's were all made between 2005 and 2009, with the last one having Austrian proofs. Don't know if the Austrian proofed guns are any better than regular Glocks, but they are very cool. Our Glocks may represent the pinnacle of Glock production. Someone may post shortly that HIS trouble free, gen 4 Glock with the changeable back straps and dual recoil spring is better. Funny how with some guns the pinnacle of production can be defined such as the West German Sigs or the DSA FALs with serial numbers prior to 24xxx. |
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[#16]
Anyone have a lnk to either Henderson Defense thread on reliability (as discussed. Above) for those of us who didn't see them?
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[#17]
Quoted:
Anyone have a lnk to either Henderson Defense thread on reliability (as discussed. Above) for those of us who didn't see them? View Quote Link for the HD handgun thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=160140 Link for the HD AK thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=159106 |
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[#18]
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[#19]
Quoted:
Think it's the shooter, not the gun. This is 17 rounds through a stock Glock 34 at 15 yards... http://i.imgur.com/o6LOKGr.jpg View Quote Nice shooting. Now if you can do that with a G19 I would be super impressed. |
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[#20]
Quoted:
Nice shooting. Now if you can do that with a G19 I would be super impressed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Think it's the shooter, not the gun. This is 17 rounds through a stock Glock 34 at 15 yards... http://i.imgur.com/o6LOKGr.jpg Nice shooting. Now if you can do that with a G19 I would be super impressed. Sadly I shoot the 19 better on most days. lol |
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