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Posted: 5/9/2014 8:20:59 PM EDT
Sent it in because the slide was locking back while there was still ammo in the magazine.  Turn around time was good, a little over 3 weeks, but I'm disappointed that there was no communication from them between the time they received it and the time they shipped it back.  Also, I cleaned it before sending it back and it came back clean, so either they cleaned it themselves or they didn't shoot it much, or not at all.









And the paper in the box only gives the most minimum of details, "Adjusted the slide stop and test fired".  Not a single thing about if they reproduced the problem before the "adjustment" or how many rounds were fired or if they solved it if they did reproduce it.  I guess the gun industry is different than the service industries I've been in, had I sent in a finished work order with a description that sparse I'd have the service writer on my ass inside of 10 minutes demanding more info for the customer otherwise the customer would be on his ass.









If they fixed it I'll give them a pass, if not I'll probably trade or sell the gun, I'm not a big believer in sending a gun back over and over. Been there, done that and won't do it again.  Besides, I don't have the purchase receipt and apparently at some point they're going to want it.










Hopefully I can get out to the range early next week because other than that single problem I really like the pistol, but I don't keep unreliable guns.  I'll post back as soon as I shoot it.







Update 8/28.  I haven't had much range time recently, but took it to the range again to day and the malfunction is back.




Update 11/22.  After having written to CZ and having a friendly exchange with one of their gunsmiths my P-07 is on it's way back to CZ.


 
Link Posted: 5/12/2014 10:10:27 AM EDT
[#1]
You have to keep after CZ to get any info, but it sounds like they sent you a note with what was done.
My 07 has been back twice now, first time they sent a new pistol to replace the one that had a frame bulge around the metal frame inserts.
That 07 ran great for 800 rds, then developed a very heavy single action pull.  Like 20# heavy, D/A worked normally.
CZ gets the pistol and finds nothing wrong, and sends it back.  I have no idea what happened in transit, but there must have been something going on.  Pistol is now back to me, it is working properly.  The smith at CZ said they had no idea what could be wrong.
 I really like it,and feel it would be a great CCW piece, but I would want to replace the sights and figure out why it had the heavy SA pull before I trusted it for CCW.   I'm prolly going to sell the 07 and buy a second P01.  Or a LW commander.
Link Posted: 5/17/2014 2:29:59 PM EDT
[#2]
I took the P07 back to the range yesterday with 100 of my semi hot handloads (each checked in a chamber gauge), 100 factory rounds (Tula this time) and I also had 30 old 124 grain Speer Gold Dots that I've had for around 10-12 years.






I used both mags and shot the Tula ammo first.  It shot all 100 without a hitch.  Then I shot my reloads, again, all 100 without a problem.







Then I took 10 of the Gold Dots that have been in a Glock 26 mag since they were new and were very tarnished. Not corroded, I live in the desert, just very brown with age.  The slide locked back after every shot.  I checked each time and each time the top round was still in the magazine, moved freely, and the slide stop was up.







Kind of annoyed me, so I loaded up the rest of the Gold Dots which have been in the box since new.  They all ran through the gun fine, not a single problem.  I'm hoping it was just a fluke with that old, tarnished ammo, but I still don't see what would make the slide stop lock in place like that when the spring and mechanism is otherwise fine.







I'm going to buy another couple of boxes of either Gold Dots or Rangers.  If the P07 goes through 50 of them I'm going to call it fixed.  If not, I guess I'll be calling CZ back.

 
Link Posted: 6/6/2014 4:22:36 AM EDT
[#3]
I was having the same issue with a glock I bought when they switched to the newer style slide lock.  I realized on my thumbs up grip my off hand thumb was catching the slide lock when the recoil was coming back down.  Even though I wasn't riding the lever when I shot the recoil was enough to catch my thumb for a split second.  Just a thought.
Link Posted: 6/8/2014 11:02:30 PM EDT
[#4]
As odd as it might sound, can you have someone videotape you shooting? See if that might be the issue with the harder recoiling Gold Dots. Random thought, have a nice day.
Link Posted: 8/28/2014 6:55:37 PM EDT
[#5]
Well it's doing it again.  This time with a box of steel cased Wolf ammo.  Twice in 50 rounds the slide locked back while there were still rounds in the magazine.  Looking at my hand on the gun I can't even imagine how I could be coming into contact with the slide lock lever.  I think if any part of my hand was hitting it I'd be feeling it.






I'm not sure if calling them back is worth it.  I'll think about it over the weekend.

 
Link Posted: 8/28/2014 9:13:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 8/28/2014 9:59:22 PM EDT
[#7]



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:




Have you tried shooting it one handed?
View Quote






 


No, I haven't.  I'm left handed, and I did try shooting it right handed (still two handed) and it still did it.  But it never dawned on me to try it one handed.  If it solves the problem I'm not sure what that would tell me other than "You bought the wrong gun".  No other semi auto gun I own (and I currently own around 30) has done this.










Are you thinking that my off hand is somehow activating the slide release lever?  Shooting left handed, as I normally do, no part of my off hand is on that side of the gun other than the grip area. The only thing that could contact it is my trigger finger, and that's 1/4" below the slide release lever and hits the frame before it can move further towards the slide release. I've held the gun in my shooting hand and with my off hand torqued and twisted the gun and can't get the slide release lever to touch my trigger finger, the frame of the gun is in the way and my finger can't bend like that.




I know I said "I can't see how my thumb could be hitting it" in the post above, but that was a mistake, neither thumb is on that side of the gun.  I'm going to edit that post now for clarification.  Sorry if it caused confusion.











I'm willing to try it one handed if you think the results would help.










Do you think swapping the lockwork for the SA parts would be informative?  I've never even had them installed.










I appreciate your desire to help, I want to solve the problem rather than get rid of the gun.










And I'm really not feeling like another trip back to the factory would help.  Their initial response of "adjusted the slide release" wasn't exactly confidence inspiring, specially when it didn't fix it. They also told me that they wouldn't replace the gun without the original receipt, which I can't find and can't get a copy of.









 
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:29:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Just curious, but have you numbered your magazines and seen if it is isolated to one magazine?
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:37:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 12:38:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 10:09:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Have you tried shooting it one handed?
View Quote


On grip:

Try one handed to see if the off hand (right in your case) is activating the slide lock on recoil.
Try one handed with your right hand, so see if (for whatever weird reason) it is your left hand pushing the slide release up.
The other thing is to gorilla grip the gun to make sure nothing is contacting the slide lock.
Can you have someone take pictures of your normal grip on the gun? From looking at pictures of the P07 online, the slide lock/release looks huge and is pretty low. I shoot thumbs high (on top of the safety) and I suspect if I shot left handed, my hand would/could easily contact the slide lock on recoil.

On bullet profile:

Also, look at the profile on the bullets, especially since the corroded (rough) Speer ammo caused the problem and the clean bullets did not.
Are the problem rounds fatter? As Maynard also asks below, what grain ammo are you using and what profile? (Flat point tends to be fatter than round.)
Sometimes the fatter profile will bump the slide lock up when feeding.
Does it happen with 124 and 148 grain but not 115 grain bullets or flat point but not round?

ETA:

Found a picture. Based on the picture at the end of this Guns and Ammo review http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/new-age-9-cz-p-07-duty-review/ I would certainly suspect that if you have large hands or a high grip that you're contacting the slide lock on recoil. You might buy a second slide lock and grind it down until it barely works (or doesn't work) and see what happens.


Link Posted: 8/29/2014 7:17:29 PM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Just curious, but have you numbered your magazines and seen if it is isolated to one magazine?
View Quote




 
Yes, I marked them and the problem occurs with both magazines that came with pistol.





Quoted:

No, I have no idea how you grip the pistol and it eliminates one variable.



Try a mag with both hands, one handed and see if the results change.





I'll try to get out to the range one day next week and try this.  I'll post back here when I do.  




I've shot both 115 and 124 grain loads in it.  Factory loads were Tula, WWB and Wolf.  I've also shot several hundred of my own handloads through it.  The problem occurred with all the different loads.















Link Posted: 8/29/2014 7:25:31 PM EDT
[#13]



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
On grip:
Try one handed to see if the off hand (right in your case) is activating the slide lock on recoil.



Try one handed with your right hand, so see if (for whatever weird reason) it is your left hand pushing the slide release up.



The other thing is to gorilla grip the gun to make sure nothing is contacting the slide lock.



Can you have someone take pictures of your normal grip on the gun? From looking at pictures of the P07 online, the slide lock/release looks huge and is pretty low. I shoot thumbs high (on top of the safety) and I suspect if I shot left handed, my hand would/could easily contact the slide lock on recoil.
On bullet profile:
Also, look at the profile on the bullets, especially since the corroded (rough) Speer ammo caused the problem and the clean bullets did not.



Are the problem rounds fatter? As Maynard also asks below, what grain ammo are you using and what profile? (Flat point tends to be fatter than round.)



Sometimes the fatter profile will bump the slide lock up when feeding.



Does it happen with 124 and 148 grain but not 115 grain bullets or flat point but not round?
ETA:
Found a picture. Based on the picture at the end of this Guns and Ammo review http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/new-age-9-cz-p-07-duty-review/ I would certainly suspect that if you have large hands or a high grip that you're contacting the slide lock on recoil. You might buy a second slide lock and grind it down until it barely works (or doesn't work) and see what happens.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



Have you tried shooting it one handed?

On grip:
Try one handed to see if the off hand (right in your case) is activating the slide lock on recoil.



Try one handed with your right hand, so see if (for whatever weird reason) it is your left hand pushing the slide release up.



The other thing is to gorilla grip the gun to make sure nothing is contacting the slide lock.



Can you have someone take pictures of your normal grip on the gun? From looking at pictures of the P07 online, the slide lock/release looks huge and is pretty low. I shoot thumbs high (on top of the safety) and I suspect if I shot left handed, my hand would/could easily contact the slide lock on recoil.
On bullet profile:
Also, look at the profile on the bullets, especially since the corroded (rough) Speer ammo caused the problem and the clean bullets did not.



Are the problem rounds fatter? As Maynard also asks below, what grain ammo are you using and what profile? (Flat point tends to be fatter than round.)



Sometimes the fatter profile will bump the slide lock up when feeding.



Does it happen with 124 and 148 grain but not 115 grain bullets or flat point but not round?
ETA:
Found a picture. Based on the picture at the end of this Guns and Ammo review http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/new-age-9-cz-p-07-duty-review/ I would certainly suspect that if you have large hands or a high grip that you're contacting the slide lock on recoil. You might buy a second slide lock and grind it down until it barely works (or doesn't work) and see what happens.







I'll try the different grips sometime next week.  I'll have someone take a picture later and I'll post it this evening.  With my norma left handed grip, despite it looking like my trigger finger is close to the slide release, it hits the frame well before it contacts the slide release and there's nothing I can do to make it contact it without it hurting.  








 


The problem occurred with round nose, FMJ rounds both before and after the "aged" hollow points.  I'll take a look and see how close the bullets come to the slide release.  That's an interesting possibility.  I've never shot anything heavier than 124 through it, nor have I shot flat nose other than those Gold Dots.










If I can't find the problem any other way I'll try getting another slide release and grinding it down.  But I still can't possibly see how my finger could be bent at an angle where it would come into contact with the slide release without my knowing it. In order for my trigger finger to activate the slide lock lever it would have to come out of the trigger guard, and that's just not happening.







I'll post a picture later but anyone with a similar pistol can hold it left handed and see how nearly impossible it is for their trigger finger to move the slide release lever up while the finger is on the trigger.  I'd love it if that were the answer, but I just don't see it.  It would also be happening to almost all left handed shooters with large hands, and it's not, at least not that I can tell.


 
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 7:49:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 8/29/2014 8:44:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Check this out.  I've just been sitting here with the slide off and the slide release inserted and I noticed something interesting.  












If I put a couple of empty cases into the magazine and insert it, AND push it up from the bottom, the steel body of the magazine will contact the slide release and push it upwards around 1/8". It doesn't move it up enough to lock the slide back, but it does move it up a considerable amount.  And I do have large hands and have a habit of having my pinkie under the bottom of the mag and I'm probably squeezing the mag up from the bottom.













I made this video, I think it pretty clearly shows the amount I can move the slide lock up just by pushing the mag upwards from the bottom.  Also note that the follower is depressed with empty cases, so it's not the follower pushing it up, it's the steel body of the magazine as it comes into contact with the slide lock.






























Is it possible that with upwards pressure on the magazine moving the slide lock up about 1/8 inch that recoil could be moving it up the rest of the way?  Is it like this on anyone else's P-07?













I've got an idea, I'm going to file that area on one of the magazine bodies down far enough so there's no contact with the slide lock no matter how hard I push, and then I'll mark it and when I go back the range I'll at least have another option to try along with firing it one handed.













Sound reasonable?







Edit:  If you watch the video full screen on Youtube it's a lot easier to see.




Edit #2:  I had to take about 3/16" off the mag body before I got clearance between the body and the slide lock when I pushed up on the bottom of the mag.  And I was doing it little bits at a time and testing.  That's a lot of movement of the slide lock.  I'm giving 7 out of 10 odds that I found the problem.



 
Link Posted: 9/2/2014 9:56:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Interesting. Never heard of magazines pushing on a slide stop/release before. I suspect you figured it out.
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 5:20:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Do you have the "old-style" mags with the glossy finish, or the new revision with the matte finish?
Link Posted: 9/7/2014 7:32:43 AM EDT
[#18]
My P07 is the older DUTY style gun.  It's a .40 S&W.  I also have a 9MM slide/barrel/slide stop and magazines for it.

I just checked it like you did with yours, with the .40 S&W slide stop and magazine and the magazine does not contact the slide stop with the magazine in "normal" position or when pushed upwards as far as it will go.

Then, I went to the cabinet and got the 9MM parts and saw a different story.  The magazine is contacting the slide stop with the magazine in "normal" position and if I push up on the magazine it will push the slide stop up.

"Normal" is the magazine just "hanging" on the magazine catch in the mag well/grip of the pistol.

Closer examination of the slide stops shows the one for the .40 S&W is made different than the one for the 9MM.

.40 S&W (the post that contacts the magazine follower) is slightly above the cast line on the horizontal/outside portion of the slide stop and that part is also made different inside.  The post is tapered on the rear side of it (possible to clear the larger .40 caliber bullets???) so that it doesn't stick into the magazine area as far.

9MM (the post that contacts the magazine follower) is right on the cast line on the horizontal/outside portion of the slide stop.  The post is rounded and the same front or rear where it sticks into the magazine area.

Don't have a camera to take pictures, but they are obviously different.  I never paid attention to them before, just switched them back and forth on the frame depending on what caliber I was shooting.

I also don't know if possible there is a difference between the magazine bodies themselves.  The .40 S&W magazine make contact with the 9MM slide stop (just like the 9MM magazine does) so I can't say the .40 S&W magazine is different.    I can only say, for my pieces/parts, the 9MM and .40 S&W slide stops are made different.

I noticed one other thing while moving parts back and forth on mine and looking at the slide stop/magazine interaction.  Do you shoot with your support hand under/contacting the magazine?  If so you may be slightly pushing the magazine up (raising up the slide stop) when it might not contact the slide stop enough to move it upwards otherwise.  Just a thought.

Link Posted: 9/11/2014 12:09:41 PM EDT
[#19]
@stfram - Without something to compare them to I don't know if I have the old or new mags, mine aren't really glossy, but aren't what I'd call a true matte finish either.



@M1A4ME - Thanks for making that comparison.  Rather than modifying every mag I have or buy I might consider purchasing 40 slide lock and see if that works.  I don't have my off hand under the gun, the problem is I have large hands and my pinkie is usually under magazine and when I grip the gun it naturally squeezes the magazine up.  I've never had a problem with this on any other gun.




I still haven't gotten back to the range yet, work has gotten busy.  I'm going to try to make it tomorrow, but it's not a sure thing.
Link Posted: 9/14/2014 11:23:54 PM EDT
[#20]
To OP,if your in the Phoenix area,CZ Custom is in Mesa,They have some top notch Gunsmith's there.And everything your CZ might need.
Have them have a look over it,they do have a full CZ service center.

http://czcustomguns.com/
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 5:23:01 PM EDT
[#21]
Finally managed to get out to the range today despite the weather sucking big time and I'm happy to report that my P07 functions perfectly with the mag mod.  I put about 200 rounds though the modded mag, a mix of my reloads, Tula factory 9mm and Speer 124 grain Gold Dogs and it functioned perfectly with all of them.



I put about 50 rounds through it with the with the unmodded mag and, if my pinkie is underneath pressing upwards, it will still occasionally lock back with ammo still in the mag.  I'm going to mod the other mag, but I'm also going to try to consciously remember not let my pinkie slip underneath the mag.  It's just a habit for me since I have so many pistols where the grip is just slightly too short to keep my pinkie comfortably on the grip without it slipping off under recoil.



It's an easy fix, but my personal feeling is that this shouldn't be an issue, CZ should have caught this potential problem during production and fixed it.  And they also should have caught it when I sent it back instead of bullshitting me with "Adjusted slide stop and test fired".  Maybe I'll email them and see what they have to say about it.  I can't be the only one this has happened to.
Link Posted: 9/19/2014 6:40:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Good to know you've at least tracked down the issue.
Is the fix that you are cutting the notch in the magazine deeper? By notch, I mean the location where the slide stop sticks through to contact the follower?
Just want to make sure I understand.
Also interested to see CZs response.
Link Posted: 9/20/2014 1:05:30 AM EDT
[#23]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Good to know you've at least tracked down the issue.

Is the fix that you are cutting the notch in the magazine deeper? By notch, I mean the location where the slide stop sticks through to contact the follower?

Just want to make sure I understand.

Also interested to see CZs response.
View Quote




 
It's not the mag follower that's the problem, when there are rounds in the mag the follower is depressed so it's no where near the slide stop.  It's the top edge of the steel magazine body that's pressing the slide stop upwards when the magazine is pushed up from the bottom with rounds in the magazine.  All I did was grind the top edge of the mag body down in that one spot by about 3/16".  I can post better pictures if you're interested.




I suppose it would have been enough to train myself to not squeeze the mag upwards, but then I thought about other situations, e.g., resting the gun on the magazine to steady the gun, and I decided it's best to modify the mags.




I want to get pictures of the mag I modified side by side with the unmodified mag and I'll send that and my video to CZ tomorrow after a local gun show I'm going to.




I'm not mad at CZ, I just think that at some point someone dropped the ball when test fitting parts.  I had the same problem at a company I worked for years ago, at the last minute we had to change manufacturers for one small part and the product wasn't properly tested after the change and the company got a serious black eye over it.  
Link Posted: 9/21/2014 5:16:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
  It's not the mag follower that's the problem, when there are rounds in the mag the follower is depressed so it's no where near the slide stop.  It's the top edge of the steel magazine body that's pressing the slide stop upwards when the magazine is pushed up from the bottom with rounds in the magazine.  All I did was grind the top edge of the mag body down in that one spot by about 3/16".  I can post better pictures if you're interested.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
  It's not the mag follower that's the problem, when there are rounds in the mag the follower is depressed so it's no where near the slide stop.  It's the top edge of the steel magazine body that's pressing the slide stop upwards when the magazine is pushed up from the bottom with rounds in the magazine.  All I did was grind the top edge of the mag body down in that one spot by about 3/16".  I can post better pictures if you're interested.

This is what I meant. I understand.

Quoted:
I suppose it would have been enough to train myself to not squeeze the mag upwards, but then I thought about other situations, e.g., resting the gun on the magazine to steady the gun, and I decided it's best to modify the mags.

Me too. You don't want to hope to remember not to do something you do normally do, while under pressure.

That's partly why I was asking, since I don't usually do it, but it's good to know about this gun. (What if you're firing prone or from a barricade and that pushed the magazine up?)
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 7:27:39 PM EDT
[#25]
After having written to CZ and having a friendly exchange with one of their gunsmiths my P-07 is on it's way back to CZ.



I'll update again when I get it back.




This is the first time I've had to return a gun to the manufacturer twice since I stopped buying Taurus and KelTec.  
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