Author
Message
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 578
Feedback: 100% (6)
Posted: 4/10/2012 3:14:55 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
I have a CZ P01 and am thinking of sending it off to the Custom shop for some work but need a little help understanding the pros and cons of removing the fpb. Currently the P01 is not a carry weapon and probably never will be, but if I remove the fpb, will that make the gun completely useless for using it as a ccw due to certain dangers ?

I also am thinking of having a new trigger style installed since the stock hook trigger seems to dig into my finger for something a little flatter.

So the work I'm thinking of having performed is
1)Comp hammer, trigger tune
2)Tactical rear sight with fiber optic front sight installed
3)Possibly CZ85 original combat trigger with overtravel installed
JoshAR
M.O.S #333
Military
Offline
Posts: 9298
Feedback: 100% (30)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/10/2012 4:55:16 PM
[Last Edit: 4/10/2012 4:57:06 PM by JoshAR]
Remove the FPB.

Period, get that damned thing out of the gun.

Dangers? FPB are more an advent of safety bs than anything else. Yes your gun could fire if you throw it on concrete AND the hammer breaks AND it happens to still hit the firing pin. More likely is the FBP it's self malfunctions at some point making your gun a paper weight.


More to the point:

CZ's with the FPB in them and trigger work are not reliable and IMHO not a gun worth carrying at all. There is a false reset in the trigger with a FPB in it; the gun will reset and you can pull the trigger, hammer falls and nothing happens. The Trigger will reset but the FPB will not. The FPB then dose it's job and keeps the gun from firing.

Taking the FPB out gives you a better reset, less reset travel and a gun that will actually work.

Video makes life easier. I had to send my CZ back to the custom shop to get the damned FPB yanked out.

Josh

"Integrity, justice, courage, and action - without these, a person is of no consequence." Don Nelson my friend gone from us, 06/06/04.
Lakemoor
Member
NRA
Offline
Posts: 2714
Feedback: 100% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/10/2012 5:06:25 PM
Removing the firing pin block and your comfort can only be answered by yourself. That being said let's mention some of the aspects if you were to carry a P01 with the FPB removed. A P01 will be carried at half cock. Will an accidental drop make the hammer contact the firing pin at half cock? Probably no. Lot of series 70 1911 with no FPB are being carried all the time. Your call but for a carry piece I'd leave it in.

I really like the comp hammer but if you consider carrying it I would be tempted to leave the standard hammer. At half cock it's not bad with some practice and by default the heavier and longer first pull is the safety on the decocker models. Of all the CZs I had the P01 had the shortest reset in standard trim. As far as trigger get the one that's comfy. I prefer the 85 style trigger but I only shoot in SA mode. For the half cock mode my short stubby fingers preferred the more curved tigger.

As far as smoothing it out yes I can see the benefit. Took over 1000 rounds and a ton of dry firing to smooth out the gritty feel.

Best of luck in making your decision.

Lakemoor
Member
NRA
Offline
Posts: 2715
Feedback: 100% (56)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/10/2012 5:17:03 PM
[Last Edit: 4/10/2012 5:22:36 PM by Lakemoor]
Removing Firing pin block doesn't require going to CZ custom. Get 2 appropriate roll punches. Knock out first small pin from the larger roll pin in the slide. Now remove larger roll pin and watch out for the firing pin to go flying. Remove firing pin bock and the FPB spring. Now the tricky part. Second pair of hands are helpful. Insert firing pin and spring back in. The flat portion needs to be facing up I think. As the firing pin is inserted and held in place the larger roll pin needs to be inserted. Then the smaller roll pin.

Edit
I really like the FO front sight and tactical rears. It seems I can shoot faster with them than the three dots. That being said if a defensive gun why not tritium night sights. Probably don't need it in most engagements but better to have and not need.
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 579
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/10/2012 6:28:12 PM
Originally Posted By Lakemoor:
Removing Firing pin block doesn't require going to CZ custom. Get 2 appropriate roll punches. Knock out first small pin from the larger roll pin in the slide. Now remove larger roll pin and watch out for the firing pin to go flying. Remove firing pin bock and the FPB spring. Now the tricky part. Second pair of hands are helpful. Insert firing pin and spring back in. The flat portion needs to be facing up I think. As the firing pin is inserted and held in place the larger roll pin needs to be inserted. Then the smaller roll pin.

Edit
I really like the FO front sight and tactical rears. It seems I can shoot faster with them than the three dots. That being said if a defensive gun why not tritium night sights. Probably don't need it in most engagements but better to have and not need.


Thanks for the replies . . .

As for tritium, . . . I've always thought of it as a catch 22. If you can't see your sights, then how can you identify your target ? And for me personally, with tritium sights on my USP 45 full size, I find myself looking AT the sights and not THROUGH the sights to the target.

I just figured since the gun was going to the custom shop anyway, why not have them remove the fpb while they are at it. I can't see an extra cost since the hammer/tune, new trigger, and new sights are going to cost me an arm and a leg anyhow.
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 588
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/16/2012 6:40:39 PM
I just dropped off the P-01 to UPS today for it's journey to the custom shop . . . very excited since is the first ever one of my guns to have "work" done. Now what to do about the 3 week quoted wait time ?
jameslovesjammie
Offline
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/16/2012 7:59:34 PM
Originally Posted By Lakemoor:
Removing the firing pin block and your comfort can only be answered by yourself. That being said let's mention some of the aspects if you were to carry a P01 with the FPB removed. A P01 will be carried at half cock. Will an accidental drop make the hammer contact the firing pin at half cock? Probably no. Lot of series 70 1911 with no FPB are being carried all the time. Your call but for a carry piece I'd leave it in.

I really like the comp hammer but if you consider carrying it I would be tempted to leave the standard hammer. At half cock it's not bad with some practice and by default the heavier and longer first pull is the safety on the decocker models. Of all the CZs I had the P01 had the shortest reset in standard trim. As far as trigger get the one that's comfy. I prefer the 85 style trigger but I only shoot in SA mode. For the half cock mode my short stubby fingers preferred the more curved tigger.


You also have to remove the firing pin block lifter from the sear cage, which requires a near total break down.

You need to do one of these three things to accomplish this:

1. Cut the leg off the firing pin block lifter
2. Install a spacer where the firing pin block lifter goes into the sear cage
3. Install a 85 (pre-B) sear.

On my gun, I first did number one, then number two later on. It is definitely smoother with the spacer versus the cut off lifter leg, but a Pre-B sear would be the smoothest of them all.
jameslovesjammie
Offline
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:04:21 PM
Also, Angus Hobdell from CZ Custom has said that they have done tests with the Competition Hammer. They have dropped it 15 feet off a ladder onto a concrete floor ON THE HAMMER and it hasn't gone off. This is with the Shadow, which doesn't have the firing pin block. On my gun, I have the firing pin block removed, an extended firing pin, and comp hammer. I would have no worries carrying it.
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 589
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:23:50 PM
Originally Posted By jameslovesjammie:
Also, Angus Hobdell from CZ Custom has said that they have done tests with the Competition Hammer. They have dropped it 15 feet off a ladder onto a concrete floor ON THE HAMMER and it hasn't gone off. This is with the Shadow, which doesn't have the firing pin block. On my gun, I have the firing pin block removed, an extended firing pin, and comp hammer. I would have no worries carrying it.


Good to know since it's on its way to their shop . . .along with a note that says "Please remove Firing Pin Block, signed: X"
PA452
Team Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 15906
Feedback: 100% (94)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:43:21 PM
[Last Edit: 4/16/2012 8:43:45 PM by PA452]
Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
Originally Posted By jameslovesjammie:
Also, Angus Hobdell from CZ Custom has said that they have done tests with the Competition Hammer. They have dropped it 15 feet off a ladder onto a concrete floor ON THE HAMMER and it hasn't gone off. This is with the Shadow, which doesn't have the firing pin block. On my gun, I have the firing pin block removed, an extended firing pin, and comp hammer. I would have no worries carrying it.


Good to know since it's on its way to their shop . . .along with a note that says "Please remove Firing Pin Block, signed: X"


Did you remember the note saying, "Please don't safety check by dropping 15' onto hammer"?

Gotta enjoy the little things.
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 590
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/17/2012 6:50:00 AM
Originally Posted By PA452:
Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:

Good to know since it's on its way to their shop . . .along with a note that says "Please remove Firing Pin Block, signed: X"


Did you remember the note saying, "Please don't safety check by dropping 15' onto hammer"?



. . . Crap.
Walkure
Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas
Offline
Posts: 7325
Feedback: 100% (19)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/19/2012 9:30:54 PM
Originally Posted By PA452:
Did you remember the note saying, "Please don't safety check by dropping 15' onto hammer"?


FPBs aren't really about safeguarding against being dropped on the hammer. Hammer/sear engagement is responsible for that in single action, and inertial firing pins (see more discussion below) provides a good degree of safety in double action (hammer down).

In terms of "drop safety", FPBs safeguard against being dropped on the muzzle. Firing pins in normal handguns are inertial; they are free-floating aside from held back by a spring. The firing pin has to move a distance forward before contacting the primer; the spring holds it back. Normally, the hammer strikes the firing pin and provides the force to overcome the spring and move the firing pin forward into the primer. However, if the gun were dropped on the muzzle hard enough, the firing pin's own inertia can overcome the spring and strike the primer without any action of the hammer. This is why guns without FPBs that are required to pass drop-tests use stronger firing pin springs and lightweight firing pins.

If you were to drop a single-action on its hammer, it would have to overcome the sear engagement to fall forward and strike the firing pin. Unless you have a light trigger, the only way that is going to happen is if something physically breaks. If you drop a double-action on its (lowered) hammer, it would be unlikely to provide sufficient force to overcome both the FP spring and the FPs own inertia (which now acts in the interest of safety, tending to move the FP down, and hence away from the loaded round in this case).
"Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." - USSC Justice Antonin Scalia
Bassgasm
Musician, not Fisherman
Military
Offline
Posts: 3248
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/20/2012 9:54:04 PM
You've made the correct choice in asking them to remove the FPB.

I didn't. I had them convert my 85B to SAO with the flat trigger. The break is awesome, but it's got a lot of pre-travel due to the FPB. One sunny day, I'll send it back for sights and ask them to pull the FPB.
"Boil eggs, not 1911s."-_DR

"If you have the inability to appreciate Jazz in pure form or it's mutations, then you truly are a simple minded person doomed to a life of Nascar and sorrow."-pighelmet
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 605
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/30/2012 8:13:44 PM
Wow. So I just got a call from CZ Customs saying they won't remove the FPB due to it making the decocker to unsafe. I'm kind of pissed, since I signed the work order saying they have my written authorization. Which makes me upset since the pistol decocks to half cock position anyway.

I guess I'll start studying up on how to do it myself.
Bassgasm
Musician, not Fisherman
Military
Offline
Posts: 3425
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 4/30/2012 11:48:10 PM

Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
Wow. So I just got a call from CZ Customs saying they won't remove the FPB due to it making the decocker to unsafe. I'm kind of pissed, since I signed the work order saying they have my written authorization. Which makes me upset since the pistol decocks to half cock position anyway.

I guess I'll start studying up on how to do it myself.

I wonder what it would take for them to convert it from a decocker to a safety. My understanding the the guns with the manual safeties had better triggers to begin with, and there's more options for upgrades.
"Boil eggs, not 1911s."-_DR

"If you have the inability to appreciate Jazz in pure form or it's mutations, then you truly are a simple minded person doomed to a life of Nascar and sorrow."-pighelmet
maleante
Member
Offline
Posts: 9103
Feedback: 100% (119)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/1/2012 2:54:31 AM
Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
Wow. So I just got a call from CZ Customs saying they won't remove the FPB due to it making the decocker to unsafe. I'm kind of pissed, since I signed the work order saying they have my written authorization. Which makes me upset since the pistol decocks to half cock position anyway.

I guess I'll start studying up on how to do it myself.


I realize this is YOUR gun, etc, but if it were MY gun, I would take a second to think about what the Custom shop just told you... if they think it is too unsafe, there might be a reason... just saying...
I'll save my thoughts on the people who can spend any amount of dollars on a rifle but can't devote 20 minutes to getting their body in shape for another thread. -skinnysarge79
scottydoesnt
Offline
Posts: 606
Feedback: 100% (6)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/1/2012 5:49:36 AM
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By scottydoesnt:
Wow. So I just got a call from CZ Customs saying they won't remove the FPB due to it making the decocker to unsafe. I'm kind of pissed, since I signed the work order saying they have my written authorization. Which makes me upset since the pistol decocks to half cock position anyway.

I guess I'll start studying up on how to do it myself.


I realize this is YOUR gun, etc, but if it were MY gun, I would take a second to think about what the Custom shop just told you... if they think it is too unsafe, there might be a reason... just saying...


I guess I should have added. . . I do not carry as it is not allowed in my state. This isn't a self defense weapon in any way. I want the best trigger possible for range shooting. I would never de-cock the gun with live ammo in the chamber.
Walkure
Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas
Offline
Posts: 7330
Feedback: 100% (19)
Link To This Post
Posted: 5/1/2012 10:22:46 PM
Originally Posted By Bassgasm:
I wonder what it would take for them to convert it from a decocker to a safety.


Swapping out for a new gun.

The frames apparently have different cuts to accept decocker guts instead of proper guts. (Can't verify personally, as I've never had a BD detail-stripped, but that's what the CZC folks say.)
"Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." - USSC Justice Antonin Scalia
Handguns » CZ