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Posted: 11/18/2007 11:58:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Matthew_Q]
[#1]
My EMP is in the EMP30xx range. I found that WWB is quite a bit hotter than UMC. I think the extractor may be too long... IMTO, I think it's not sitting in the extractor groove when in battery, so when I went to a hotter load, it failed more. I want both cheaper brands to run right in that gun. I'll likely use it in IDPA, and since WWB is the best deal on FMJ ammo around here...
I have detail stripped the gun, blasted out both the firing pin channel (heard someone busted a pin because it got stuck) and the extractor channel. It didn't seem to help. I think I just got a bum extractor, and instead of replacing it (what, a $10 part) when it was back at the shop, they just tweaked it. I do have some good JHP loads... but I don't want to have to break in with 2-300 rounds of ammo that costs damn near $1/round. It should run right on whatever I put in it... which comes to your last point. You're absolutely right, it's meant as a defensive handgun, and a defensive handgun should run 100%. That's what I'm going to emphasize to SA when I call. I'm going to ask them to have a Custom Shop smith work on it, and CALL ME to PERSONALLY assure me that the gun works 100% before they send it back to me... if it doesn't work, I will tell them I want an exchange, and I'll want the new one they send me tested by the Custom Shop. |
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Posted: 11/19/2007 10:29:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Matthew_Q,
I sent Springfield a link to this thread. Here's the response: We stand behind our product 100% so I would recommend this gentleman contact us and let us get his gun back here again so we can get it taken care of for him. We do reimburse shipping up to $50.00 for warranty repair and we also pay the shipping back to him. We will make this right for him. The EMP has been very popular and reliable for most people but occasionally one will have some problems. I would like to speak to him if you could get my information to him. Jon 1-800-680-6866 ext 8996. Thank you, Jon Yacapraro Dealer Assistance and Response Team Springfield Inc 420 West Main St Geneseo, IL 61254 1-800-680-6866 [email protected] |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 11/19/2007 4:59:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Well 1911s were not designed to:
1) use 9mm. The extractor tunnel is placed for the .45 and not the 9mm. and 2) to be that short. Barrel has to tilt at a MUCH more radical angle to function. All in all, I think the gun seems to work pretty well all things considered; maybe you just need to find a load it really likes and then stick with that load? Regards, C |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 12:44:41 AM EDT
[#4]
I called and got an RMA set up today. If Jon sees this thread, I hope he can give me some feedback. The new RMA is 194954. I'll get it shipped tomorrow or Wednesday. I know the holiday will affect turnaround, but I don't care if it takes a month! SA has been very good to talk to on the phone. They're very courteous and professional. |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 6:05:13 AM EDT
[#5]
The EMP is not just a 9mm 1911. It was built from the ground up to be a 9mm 1911 "STYLE" handgun. |
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Posted: 11/20/2007 6:08:54 AM EDT
[#6]
I think I told you this once, but order Wilson Type 47 rebuild kits (266,45C cup follower and springs) for the welded bottom factory mags to solve the problem. www.wilsoncombat.com/a_springs_followers.asp |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/24/2007 12:42:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Hi Dano, Yes you did tell me that...good memory!  I bought some Wilson mags and it still does it. Not nearly as much though. I have not had a chance to test it again after a really good cleaning but I was thinking having my local gun smith polish the ramp. |
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Posted: 11/24/2007 12:48:09 AM EDT
[#8]
I hope everything works out well in the end for you.
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Posted: 11/24/2007 11:10:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Tag for resolution
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Posted: 11/25/2007 1:18:17 AM EDT
[#10]
You are so wrong. You are wronger than wrong. You are as wrong as wrong can be. A gun is supposed to work. Period. Would you rationalize your M4 jamming the same way, since it was origionally designed for the 7.62x51 cartridge? Seriously, reread your post. Wrong wrong wrong. |
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Posted: 11/25/2007 11:55:04 AM EDT
[#11]
I agree with Mr.Wilson. A gun is supposed to WORK. And as I mentioned before, I'm not going to go spend $1/round over a couple hundred rounds on the off chance that the gun might have worked OK with one or two particular defensive rounds. The gun will be at SA tomorrow morning. I'll be following up with the gentleman who's info was posted here. I've already had dialog with him, and he is certain they will get the gun working 100%. I will post an update. Hopefully I'll have the pistol back soon. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 11/25/2007 7:07:46 PM EDT
[#12]
:-(
Somewhat depressing thread... Hopefully they make everything right for you. |
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Posted: 12/5/2007 9:48:31 AM EDT
[#13]
I got the pistol back last night. The guy at SA emailed and said they had replaced the extractor. I can tell it's new. The slide to frame fit seems a bit looser than it was... but that won't bother me as long as the pistol WORKS, and is still as accurate as it was.
I won't get to the range until this weekend, but I will post a range report. I want to put 2-300 rounds through it without problems before I call it fixed. |
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Posted: 12/5/2007 10:47:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Hopefully everything will be good. Seems like a pretty good turn around time as well. Good luck. |
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Posted: 12/5/2007 7:14:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Yep, they take about a week. Hopefully it won't have to go back again. Actually if it has any further problems, I'm going to want them to replace it. |
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Posted: 12/5/2007 7:38:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Here's to keepin our fingers crossed.
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Posted: 12/5/2007 7:47:48 PM EDT
[#17]
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MN, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2007 8:52:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: skywarp989]
[#18]
Just let me re-cap:
You bought the pistol and took it out to shoot. Had THEN you adjusted the extractor. Next time out, you had more failures. So you adjusted the extractor again. Next time out, you had EVEN MORE failures. If I were Springfield, I'd be wondering about that... customers doing their own smithing and then sending the gun back for warranty work is generally frowned upon. Granted adjusting a 1911 extractor isn't really "gunsmithing" to some. Ah, but didn't we just establish that this gun isn't a 1911? Just playing the devil's advocate, here. Anyhow, I hope it works out for you. I got to shoot a couple EMPs at a Springfield-sponsored shoot this summer and enjoyed the hell out of the gun. These were well-used range toys, so they worked good, and recoil and accuracy were very pleasant. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 12/5/2007 9:03:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: skywarp989]
[#19]
Crap, double tap.
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Posted: 12/5/2007 10:01:19 PM EDT
[#20]
If I understand this right, Springfield does not pay shipping back unless you complain to the higher ups about it. Way to go on customer service.
 Springfield should pay for your ammo, your range fees and for your travel expenses for all this reliability testing since it failed. I hate it when the burden of quality control is put upon the customer because the factory wants to save a few bucks and not do it at the factory, TWICE!!! I have been on the receiving end of this kind of piss poor third world QC on several occasions (with other gun companies). Once I even got one of seven guns that didn't get heat treated at the factory. That's how unlucky I am. I even had to pay the shipping back on that one. For a gun who's only reason for existence is self defense, this is unforgivable. Good luck on the outcome. If I were you I would demand full payment for all costs and move on to a different company with a proven pistol. Your life is worth it. |
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Posted: 12/7/2007 6:57:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, the gentleman that asked his information be sent to me instructed me to mail in the receipts for shipping, and said SA WOULD reimburse me up to $50 shipping each time. Since the shipping was right at $50, I should at least get that back.
But yeah, it sucks that the QC is ME going to the range spending my money on ammo and range time. I will be escalating this if I have ANY failures tomorrow. I will want them to replace the whole gun, and certify that the gun they send WILL WORK. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/7/2007 8:31:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I'll be wating eagerly for tomorrows report! Good luck!!! |
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Posted: 12/8/2007 12:29:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Here she is, ready to go... along with my other new toy!
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Posted: 12/8/2007 5:27:00 PM EDT
[#24]
UPDATE!!
I just got back from the range... and the EMP... functioned 100%! I ran 23 magazines through it (some UMC, mostly WWB) and it did not hiccup even ONCE. I could tell by the cases ejecting that extraction and ejection was much more uniform and positive. Looks like the new extractor was the trick. I will try to get to the range again in a couple weeks to run another couple hundred rounds just be sure, then I will be testing defensive loads. I'm still bummed it took two return trips to SA, but I'm happy that it functions properly now. (BTW, fired the PS90 for the first time today...and I LIKE IT!!) |
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Posted: 12/8/2007 5:57:34 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm sure glad to hear that it's working for you.
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Posted: 12/8/2007 6:28:28 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/9/2007 12:27:31 AM EDT
[#27]
I would like to second that. Today was a good day at the range! |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 4:02:24 PM EDT
[#28]
I just returned from my outdoor range after about +200 rounds of various ammunition through my brand new EMP (serial # range less than 1700, purchased May 2007, but couldn't get it out until now!).
Winchester white box 115 grain would not throw the bolt open on the last round/empty mag -- also, some stovepiping, failure to feed, failure to eject problems. Corbon +P 115, forget it, refused to feed and sometimes wouldn't fire when the hammer dropped! Federal HST 124 had feeding problems, but nothing nearly as bad as the Corbon. Best so far, Federal 124 EFMJ, little to no feeding, extracting, firing, and mag locking problems, virtually, that is. Failures with the EFMJ seemed to occur less frequently as this was the last ammunition of the +200 rounds I fired. I'm going to clean it and take it out again on Sunday. Temps at the range today were appx 35F and I was wearing glove liners, CLP used sparingly at appropriate places after initial cleaning, prior to shooting. Sunday should be a bit warmer and I will try no gloves. The feeding ramp looks incredibly steep, which probably accounts for the hollow-point problems. The +P ammo throws the slide back far enough to engage on an empty mag, probably because this weapon is so tight that the 115 gr just doesn't get it yet? I'll put 200 - 400 rounds of the WWB through it intermixed with the EFMJ again. I believe the Federal EFMJ is going to be my carry round for this weapon, that is, if this weapon starts performing like a +$1K firearm should, 100%. |
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Posted: 12/21/2007 4:54:58 PM EDT
[#29]
Isn't it bad that for a 1911 or 1911-style pistol to work properly, it has to be sent back at least twice. If they did this work from the beginning, there would be a lot more 1911 sales. However the price would also go up. I about shit thinking about spending a grand on a handgun then having to give someone the reach around to get it to work right.
Glad it came out right for you. For being unemployed, you sure have some expensive toys.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 5:13:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Again. not a good report on a brand new $1000+ pistol...still holding back on buying one till I hear they all work right out of the box...as they damned well should. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/21/2007 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm going to pass I thinkon the EMP. Every single Springfield pistol(except one XD) I buy malfunctions. I bought 3 XD and and 1 works good. my 1911's had to go back and 2 XD's. I really wanted an EMP but I sick of sending all my Springfields back. No way I'm spending $1000.00+ and having a good chance I have to return it to the factory.
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Posted: 12/21/2007 11:45:20 PM EDT
[#32]
i am still a bit upset about having to send it back twice. I did just deposit the shipping reimbursement checks today.
All it needed was a new extractor... I'm upset because they should have just replaced it the first time. It's a cheap enough part, and it would have saved them $50! I think I'm going to hit the range tomorrow or Sunday, get a few more FMJ rounds through it and try a few defensive loads. I'll be driving to Phoenix (just got my CHL in the mail!!), and the EMP will be riding in the center console with a couple extra mags. I can definitely understand the hesitation people have... my experience... another person having one out of box that didn't work right... A $1000+ pistol should have better QA. SA should analyze the part that was failing in mine to see if it was out of spec, then use that data to prevent that from happening. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/22/2007 2:37:53 AM EDT
[#33]
I glad you now have a nice EMP! I was going to buy one but I picked up a Sig 220 Compact on Wednesday. Just got back from the range and I'm happy to report I fired 250 rounds of mixed ammo with no malfunctions. I was a little worried as I keep reading newer Sigs are having some problems too. If the EMP ever gets it's bugs worked out I will buy one. |
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Posted: 12/22/2007 11:19:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Well, hopefully new EMP owners will post here about their experiences, so we can all get a feel of their OOB quality.
I love the pistol. It just feels so good in the hand... even better (IMHO) than a full size 1911. Now to get some good leather so I can carry that bad boy! |
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Posted: 12/22/2007 4:18:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Hey there MattQ, we just picked up an EMP today. It has been a long road to find a CCW pistol for my wife and we have tried at least 2 dozen different ones (name it, we probably tried it) but the ergonomics of the EMP won out over the others.
I knew about some of the problems that EMP had been having (read them on THR as well as here) so we went into this big purchase with open eyes. For us it is worth the gamble, especially knowing that Springfield will make it right even if it is maddening to send it back & forth (and I agree, you should NOT have to do that esp. with a $1k pistol). We'll try to get to the range tomorrow and post an initial report. If not it will be a week (with the holidays and all) to get to the range if we don't make it tomorrow. |
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Posted: 12/22/2007 7:39:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Hartmann, I just took my EMP to the range this afternoon to get a little more through it. A box of 50 FMJ and some JHPs.
Had ONE failure to feed.... but it was an ammo issue. The bullet was seated too deeply and wouldn't feed. Otherwise everything worked fine! |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 12/23/2007 9:26:54 PM EDT
[#37]
My wife has an EMP and probably has over 500 rounds through it. The only failures have been a few fail to fire with Remington UMC FMJ. One of our other pistols had the same failures with that ammo so I don't think it was the pistols. Her EMP has never failed with any of the JHP ammo that she has tried. It is her CCW.
We also have two full size SA 1911 pistols with over 2000 rounds through each of them. They are perfectly reliable. The only adjustment that had to be done was recently tuning the extractor on hers. |
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Posted: 12/24/2007 5:31:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Back from the range. I lubricated the EMP much more than I did when I put the first 200 rounds through. The first 50 rounds today were NATO 9mm M882, which ran without a glitch! Then some Winchester 115gr white box and instant failures for the first two mags or so, stovepipe, failure to feed and extract. Switched to some Federal EFMJ and not a single problem, approximately 50 rounds. Back to the Winchester for a few hundred, no failures save for not locking the slide back on the last round, but even this began to smooth out the more I fired. Federal HST 124 grain started working perfectly as well.
So then, after approximately 600-700 rounds, this EMP is working very well, flawlessly with the EFMJ and NATO rounds. I believe that a few hundred more and the Winchester might start getting more consistent in throwing the slide far enough back on the last round. The EMP is very tight and I feel that this was the source of my initial problems. I carry it with Federal 124 gr +P EFMJ with absolute confidence. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 1/6/2008 12:25:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Ya know I kinda hate to hear these reports of things smoothing out. Because... this means I am going to have to buy one.
  My first and only Springfield had an extractor issue right out of the box too. It, as it turns out, appears was too tight. However, after careful consultation here with others, I decided not to send it back as too many have reported that it was just fiddled with and not seriously taken care of sometimes. And that the end result of a return was likely to get that same extractor back, or one just like it. So I opted to cut my losses and order a Cylinder and Slide extractor and match it up and tweak it myself. Not ever having done so, I still found it pretty easy to master. And I am a happy camper every since. It took me less than a week to get that new extractor, made of Spring steel and I feel confident it was part of my early problems. That and some burrs that should probably not have been there and would have worked themselves out. All and all I am satisfied with Springfield. But I am a lot more aware of what I might run into and probably better off for the hard and fast lesson on how a 1911 works. I could have let them do it, I am sure they would have... but what would I have learned? An EMP is on my list. I not skeered! Sell me your broken ones for cheap! 
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Posted: 1/6/2008 1:02:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Problem with the EMP is... you cannot put a simple 1911 extractor in it. Or even a 9mm 1911 extractor! The dimensions of the slide are different on the EMP. From the breechface to the back of the slide is shorter than a fullsize 1911, even in 9mm! So we're kinda stuck with one source, unless someone comes up with a custom jobbie just for the EMP. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 5:24:30 PM EDT
[#41]
Range Report!
OK, the good news -- and it is VERY good news -- is that we have FINALLY found a pistol that fits my wife's hands well, and which she enjoys shooting. The gun fit her hand very well, the safety is very well located and easy to manipulate. The trigger is awesome, compared to the Glock she had been shooting. Mags popped out very easily. The slide was a dream for her to rack. And she shot it very well (she's a good shot when her hands fit the gun!). Overall, the EMP ergonomics get a big "thumbs up" from us. This is huge (see my previous post), and I want to thank Springfield for taking the risk in redesigning the 1911 from the ground up around the 9mm cartridge. We put about 75 rounds total through it (hey it's like 39 degrees and drizzling here and the wife had had enough after standing out in the cold after 30 minutes.) 50 rounds of it was Winchester white box and about 25 of that cheap 'police reload' stuff I had sitting around. I had read the reports here & elsewhere about the problems the EMP had when right out of the box, so I was expecting her to experience several malfunctions. Which she did, to wit: 1) Not a single magazine successfully locked back on an empty mag. 2) Several Type 2 malfunctions. Too numerous to count. Almost every mag had one at least. 3) Approx. four Type 3 malfunctions 4) Mags seem to catch halfway into the magwell; only a VERY stout slamming or slight release of the mag release will enable the mag to go all the way in. None of these problems, to the extent to which we experienced them, are acceptable in a CCW gun (which this is). I am hoping/expecting that after 600 or so more rounds through it (  ) that this will be sorted out. If not, it goes back to SA.I know this is a 1911 forum and I am not being a troll when I say this: a new or used Glock would not have had these problems right out of the box, and would have been 30-50% less money. Still, we really enjoy the EMP and expect to work the kinks out like so many others have. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:10:34 PM EDT
[#42]
From what I hear, the EMP will take a couple hundred rounds to break in... but failures to eject could be what I was experiencing.
If you send it back, MAKE them replace the extractor. |
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Posted: 1/6/2008 7:43:16 PM EDT
[#43]
One of the first things I do on a new 1911 is check the extractor tension. You shouldn't have to but it's an all too common problem for the extractor tension to be set WRONG on a new production 1911.
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Posted: 1/7/2008 2:33:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: O_DubhGhaill]
[#44]
I'm beginning to believe that the EMP, though based on a tried and true 1911 design, is unique, pro and con. My personal experience with 1911s is quite limited. As such, I am wondering about how much we can compare the EMP to 1911s for maintenance sake and machining problem solving, such as found in this article for instance. E.g., how many rounds of +P until a very tight EMP needs new springs? What is correct extractor shape and tension for this gun? etc...
I have read quite a few articles and commentary about initial experiences identical to mine and others from round one through 200, then a seemingly miraculous change from 200 through 600 rounds. I have found a round that works perfectly with this firearm during that phase, while other types are proving to work better and better the more that are put through it. I sense that by 1000 rounds I should have no problems with the HST and the Winchester white box and I have no intention of sending it to SA for now or of selling it ever. I would like to know, though, if other 1911 compacts like the Kimbers have had experiences similar to most of ours with the EMP...more surfing and searching... Edited to add: when cleaning after 600 rounds, I noticed that my cocobolo grips (I love the SA detail in these woods) were both loose -- tung oil and blue loctite. |
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USA
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Posted: 1/8/2008 6:41:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Just before (I think) the EMP was introduced, I bought one of the original Kimber Aegis IIs. (The one they now classify as an Ultra model, with 3" barrel.) For the first 700 - 800 rounds, it functioned 100% with both FMJ and HP ammo. Then I started getting an occasional stovepipe w/hollow point ammo and sent it back to Kimber. They reamed out the bore a little, adjusted the extractor and had it back to me within two weeks. Since then I've fire about 500 rounds and it again is working perfectly.
I'm not trying to stir up a debate, but only to answer the last poster's question about a comparison to the EMP. |
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Posted: 1/8/2008 10:21:01 AM EDT
[#46]
kkramer673, stirring up debate on the EMP is a good thing and given the comparison you provided and the headaches EMP owners are experiencing, necessary I believe. Thanks to Matthew_Q who started us off here, especially given that the Springfield Forum looks like it should be renamed the XD Forum.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/8/2008 2:58:25 PM EDT
[#47]
ROTFLMAO!!!! 
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Posted: 1/10/2008 4:43:08 PM EDT
[#48]
Range Report Update:
Mrs. Hartmann went to the range today (by herself! ), to put more rounds through the EMP. Results:0 (zero) Type 1 malfunctions 0 (zero) Type 2 malfunctions 0 (zero) Type 3 malfunctions AND, the slide locked back on every empty mag! She fired 150 rounds of HSM orange box "police reload" stuff we've had sitting around for 6+ years. The SA elves must have visited the gun safe at night and done some quiet repairwork, because at this range session, it worked flawlessly! The ergonomics continue to be a major strong point of the gun. If you know someone who has very small hands and is in the market for a pistol, take a strong look at the EMP. We plan to put more rounds through it, and I will post reports after each range session. If the gun continues to function well I will be very happy! |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 1/10/2008 6:59:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Dam I want one but I keep thinking twice!!!!!
Today I met a gentelman at the range who what shooting his EMP. He said he has to the hollow points first and then one ball round. If he loads all HP's the gun jams on the 1st round. So he carries it loaded with one ball followed by HP's......I was like To me that is unexceptable and needs to be fixed.
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Posted: 1/10/2008 8:25:59 PM EDT
[#50]
15% SMALLER than a 3inch .45.  
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