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Posted: 8/22/2016 8:55:04 AM EDT
I have 200 gr 44 Special Gold Dot's and 180 Speer JHP's probably for 44 Magnum

Anyone have experience with Unique in a short barrel?

I have WIN 231, Universal, WIN 296 , H110, and 2400

I've read I need a fast powder to burn in that short barrel. The Bulldog can't handle high pressure Elmer Keith loads either. It is light and shoots well

Cast Boolits says Bullseye works best. I'd rather use what I have, but what's another powder in the magazine


Those are 200 gr XTP's that were loaded into new RP brass by a company in Caro MI, in the bottom of my new burn barrel, the XTP's only went through one side and dented the other side
Link Posted: 8/21/2016 8:53:44 PM EDT
[#1]
You'll probably get more attention if this is moved to the standard Reloading section vice the reloading section of Precision Rifles.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 3:11:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I have 200 gr 44 Special Gold Dot's and 180 Speer JHP's probably for 44 Magnum

Anyone have experience with Unique in a short barrel?

I have WIN 231, Universal, WIN 296 , H110, and 2400

I've read I need a fast powder to burn in that short barrel. The Bulldog can't handle high pressure Elmer Keith loads either. It is light and shoots well

Cast Boolits says Bullseye works best. I'd rather use what I have, but what's another powder in the magazine
https://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/aquahull1/SAM_0423_zpsfy1pzsnz.jpg?1471788571149&1471788572924&1471788577225&1471788578438&1471788586176


Those are 200 gr XTP's that were loaded into new RP brass by a company in Caro MI, in the bottom of my new burn barrel, the XTP's only went through one side and dented the other side
https://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj563/aquahull1/SAM_0422_zpsvevtifln.jpg
View Quote


I like the gold dots because they are made for lower velocity out of short barrels.  Also, I use unique in reduced 44 mag loads.  Works great.  For example:  7.6 gr of unique with a240 gr hard cast SWC bullet.  It shoots about like a 45LC at about 800 fps.  I'm sure you can find a good load in the Speer manual.  In fact, I think they have a short barrel section in the 44 special data.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 6:30:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You'll probably get more attention if this is moved to the standard Reloading section vice the reloading section of Precision Rifles.
View Quote


That would be an Ooops
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 11:09:28 AM EDT
[#4]
I have one of the old steel 3" Bulldogs and did quite a bit of load development for it using 185, 220 and 255 gr. bullets. With the heavier bullets loading to any meaningful velocity yielded ferocious recoIl out of the 19 oz. revolver. My practice load for my full size .44 Specials is 6.5  grs. of Unique under the 255 gr. cast SWC. Out of the Bulldog IIRC velocity was a little over 800 fps and recoil was again, ferocious.

 I don't know the velocity threshold for expansion with the Gold Dot bullets but I wouldn't think itd be much below 800 fps. I fired a few factory loaded 200 gr. GD's out of one of my long barrel SA's and velocity was just a smidge over 700 fps.

  Ultimately I settled on a 185 gr. cast full wadcutter. 4.5 grs of Clays gave 835 fps and the load is controllable and accurate.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 11:31:15 AM EDT
[#5]
Using the max load of Unique in the Speer manual, I got 1060 fps in a 6.5 inch S&W.    Probably about 900 fps in the 2.5 inch.   The factory 200 gr Gold Dot 44 Special load went 820 fps from a 3 inch S&W.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 4:41:09 PM EDT
[#6]
You don't need to buy any Unique.  Universal is just fine for this application.  

6.5 grains under a 200 grain bullet is safe in nearly any .44 Special.  

I use a 200 lead round nose with Universal and fire it in nearly 100 year old S&W's.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 5:28:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the replies, I found an old cardboard canister of Unique that's about 3/4 full

I ordered 200 185 gr Wadcutters from Matt's Bullets
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 5:57:01 PM EDT
[#8]
I used to load a pure lead 265 gr Keith - style SWC over 5 gr of Unique.
I shot it out of  a Bulldog Pug.
Not a fast load but reasonable recoil and accurate as hell.
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 6:17:29 PM EDT
[#9]
Of the powders you have listed:
universal/ It will work but you'll have wimpy loads.
2400/ Now you're talking
H110/ Excellent powder for 200gr to 220gr bullets.

I've owned/carried/shot bulldogs for 3 decades now. I've tried store bought bullets (jacketed/cast/swaged) along with swaging my own lead and jacketed bullets. Add to that probably 30+ different cast bullets/molds over the years. I'm currently down to swaging 1 jacketed bullets and casting 3 different hb bullets/3 different wc's/3 different hp's/1 sp/1swc.

At the end of the day you want a cast/lead/coated bullet. You get allot higher velocities from the lead bullets than their jacketed counterparts in the short bbl'd 44spl's.

A link to some excellent reading on reloads for the 44spl. In there is Brian Pearce's artice on the 44spl along with a bunch of other reloading data.

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/44_Special_Articles/

The reloading data for the 44spl/h110 combo is hard to come by. I still use the data from the Hodgdon #25 reloading manual from 1986 for my reloading data for h110/44spl loads. Been using that data since 1986 in my bulldogs without a problem.

2400 is impressive even in the short bbl'd revolvers, I'd start there and use it as a bench mark for any other load.

I like to run 220gr hbwc's in my bulldog with full house loads of power pistol.



Those 220gr hbwc's cast out of 8bhn/9bhn alloy shot out of a ca bulldog using a full house load of power pistol.



Another hp I like to use in the snub nosed 44spl's, a 200gr "thompson" gc swc hp.



When choosing a hp for slow moving bullets you want a large, deep hp. Same bullet for the 44cal's (keith swc) but with different designed hp's for different velocities. The penta hp's for 800fps to 1000fps/the large round hp's for 1000fps to 1200fps/the small round hp's for 1200fps to 1400fps.



Where the rubber meats the road:
Don't know what to do with you'r old 9mm and 40s&w cases??? Turn them into 150gr jacketed hbwc's for the 38spl/357's and 220gr jacketed hbwc's for the 44spl/mag. Shot from snub nosed charter arms revolvers (38spl & 44spl).



The bottom 3 are 150gr 38spl p+ loads doing 1000fps+ out of a 2" bbl'd revolver. The 2 upper right are 220gr 44spl's doing 900fps+ out of a 2 1/2" bbl'd revolver.

Link Posted: 8/22/2016 7:21:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Thanks again, my life just got more cluttered, as I stepped into another realm

I did browse Brian's Article
Link Posted: 8/22/2016 7:53:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies, I found an old cardboard canister of Unique that's about 3/4 full

I ordered 200 185 gr Wadcutters from Matt's Bullets
View Quote


That's the very bullet I'm casting/loading.



 It's a comfy little load and I was wrong about the velocity; 853 fps , NOT 835 as I posted previously.

 This is another I tried, but the velocity was too low, really, and again, raise the velocity and controllability diminishes accordingly.

 

I think an ideal bullet would be one such as Buffalo Bore loads; a soft-cast 190 gr. SWCHP:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=271

Anyhow, let us know how they shoot. You've now got me wanting to get my Bulldog out from under the seat of the pickup and work up some more loads!


Link Posted: 8/22/2016 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#12]
My 3 inch S&W 24-3 shoots 180 JHP's over 9.2 grains of Unique at 1010 fps according to the chrony.  However, the Speer Sierra 3rd Ed. shows 9.1 grs Unique as the MAX load for 180's.

Paladin

Also:

Hodgdon 26th ed. shows 9.2 unique going 1000 fps, says pressure is 13,400 cup.

Ken Waters  shows 9.5 grs. Unique going 1132 fps, a max load per the case head expansion.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 8:08:19 AM EDT
[#13]
I shoot allot of wc's in the bulldog also.

Top left: 200gr cramer wc's similar in shape design to the lyman 429383. The mold is a double cavity nose pour which produces extremely accurate bullets.
Top center: A 175gr custom mold from lee. This bullet design is good because it can be loaded with 2 different crimp grooves/seating depths or loaded flush. The 6-cavity mold puts out a pile of bullets in a hurry.
Top right: A 162gr  button nosed lee wc. Another 6-cavity, these bullets have to be driven hard to find accuracy.



Interestingly enough (too many irons in the fire) I'm just getting ready to do some testing with hollow point/hollow based bullets in the 38spl & 44spl. The old fbi bullet was a 158gr hb/hp bullet is a soft lead swaged bullet.



In the late 1890's the british re-designed a bullet for their webly revolver (MK IV), a flat nosed bullet that had a hollow base with a hollow point. The design was short lived because hp bullets were outlawed.

So, anyway planned on doing some testing with the bottom 2 bullets pictured above.
Bottom left: raphine 200gr hb fn bullet
Bottom right: lyman 429422 220gr hb swc (keith) bullet

Planned on doing head to head tests with the hb hp bullets vs standard hp bullets. The hb bullets should have more velocity and mushroom better than their traditional hp counterparts.

I actually have hollow based flat nosed and hollow based swc bullet molds for the 38spl/44spl/45acp. Planned on testing all 3 calibers using the hb/hp designs along with using (I have hbwc molds for the 38/44/45) cast hbwc's as a control bullet for each caliber.

Everyone talks about the "fbi" bullet/load in the 38spl. Time to see what that same bullet design can do in the 44spl.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 1:24:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Max load of Power Pistol as listed in Alliant's reloading guide behind one of Matt's Bullets cavernous 250 grain hollow points works very well in mine.  Thats my four and two legged carry load for the woods.  I verified the load by calling Alliant and talking to one of their tech guys, he verified that load should run around 14500 psi, so well within the Bulldogs capabilities.  Pachmayr grips help with the recoil compared to factory grips.
Link Posted: 8/26/2016 9:20:36 PM EDT
[#15]
I am pretty certain my carry load is 200grain Gold Dots with a max load of Power Pistol.
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 12:55:19 AM EDT
[#16]
everyone knows that CA .44 specials are suppose to be loaded with Glasers.

Link Posted: 8/27/2016 1:26:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Matt's bullets came in today, but I'm stuck fixing M1 Carbines and loading 45 acp
Link Posted: 9/2/2016 5:22:35 PM EDT
[#18]
I still haven't loaded any of my bullets But I bought the only box of 44 special in my rural area. The much heralded GDJHP.

Water Jugs

I recovered 1 XTP of of 3 fired.
I recovered 0 GD's out of 3 fired

All went thru 6 milk jugs


Wet Newspaper, soaked for 3 years at least

2 - 200 gr GD, 9 " penetration both recovered.Shot  5' distance from muzzle

2- 200 gr XTP 8 " penetration both recovered Shot 10 ' distance from Muzzle

expansion results in pic

Link Posted: 9/8/2016 3:29:44 PM EDT
[#19]
These short bbl'd thumpers are at their best with lead/coated bullets. Allot more velocity with lead. I need to make up 40# of alloy to make hp's for the 44spl & 45acp, what I'm using now is just too hard/brittle. Heck I cast up some of those 195gr hb fn's out of a hard rifle alloy last year and forgot all about it. Was casting rifle bullets and the mold was getting too hot so I grabbed another mold to cast with, 2 at a time. Fill 1 while the other 1 sits/cools. Well I remembered real quick when they went thru 13" of wet newspaper.

The rest went thru 9"+ of wet newspaper. Expanded well enough and had a good thump to them.



Top left:
A 220gr hb swc that I put a hp in (took out 10gr of lead). Wanted to try to duplicate the 38spl fbi load (158gr hp hb swc). These bullets did extremely well and had a 10-shot string that averaged 1015fps.
Top right:
A 220gr hbwc loaded backwards. Hits hard and penetrates well. A 10-shot string averaged 975fps
Bottom left:
A h&g #142 (thompson) hp swc that is gas checked. The swc version weighs 220gr so this bullet has a heck of a hp. Did good on penetration and hit hard. A 10-shot string averaged 990fps.
Bottom right:
A raphine 195gr hb fn bullet that I put a hp in (took out 10gr of lead). Too hard of an alloy alls they did was go thru 13+" of wet paper. A 10-shot string averaged 1040fps.

All the loads tested above made major, not bad for a 2 1/2" bbl'd snub nose!!! That 210gr hb hp swc is extremely impressive with the shallow cupped hp doing 1000fps+.

I've owned bulldog revolvers since the 80's. Put together the right bullet/powder combo and these things will easily put the smack on anything they hit.

It's hard to beat 2400 in a short bbl'd 44spl
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 10:29:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Thanks, I have 2400 in stock

I have to load about 300 of  556 today to fill up the N340 can and clear my bench.
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