I know you guys are about to tear into me but let me explain my intentions first. I have a S&W no  dash M60 38 spl. This gun was made before +p existed and I carry it from time to time. I am wondering if there would be any issue with me carrying +p in the gun. I'm not talking about putting a steady diet of it through the gun but just using it as my carry ammo if I shoot a single round of +p through it in my life time it will be in a life or death situation and I'm sure the gun will hold up for five rounds. I don't feel the need to shoot any of the stuff through it for practice I since what ever additional recoil it generates will be a non issue. I shoot this gun and a few other smiths on a very regular basis (I usually have a smith with me ever week when I shoot and I am proficient with the big bore smiths too.

I just wanted to run this by you guys to get opinions before I do it.

I wouldn't do it. Just buy some premium standard pressure 38 loadings. My preferred choice is Gold Dot short barrel for my snubbies. Matter of fact that is what I have in my M60 (no dash) right now.

Do some research ! for one high pressure over standard level 38 loads have existed since the 1930's
Second it has been very clearly stated thousands of times any model number stamped steel frame smith is ok for plus p
The amount of increased performance of snubs with plus p over standard pressure is negligible and not worth the increased recoil and blast
And lastly even in a truly non plus p rated gun ( see comments above) my personal cut off is post World War Two - if for some reason I wanted to shoot plus p for defensive purposes or it was a situation where it was all I had I would not hesitate

If you do elect to still carry plus p I would still shoot a cylinder or two to get a feel for the adt and recoil and to make not of any difference in point of aim impact that may result - I carry the hornady critical defense lite 90 grain poly tip in my revolvers ( both two inch) and in one at ten yards the poi is about an inch and a half lower than with my typical practice load, but in the other snub it is about 3 inches low. Something to keep in mind

You could call smith and see what their official stance on it is.  I have a Colt DS that's not marked plus P and when I talked with them they said it's fine, just not a steady diet.

It depends on the loads in question.

With a 125 gr XTP I see a difference of 125 fps between a 17,000 psi standard pressure load and a 20,000 psi +P load in my 2.125" Model 60.  That's about the same velocity difference as I see with 4" versus 2.125" barrels using either standard pressure or +P loads. If instead your "+P" load is just over the SAAMI standard pressure limit, then the difference will be smaller.

In other words, a 20,000 psi +P load in a 2" barrel will get you back into the same performance category as a standard pressure load in a 4" barrel, and that's pretty much the floor for acceptable self defense in terms of penetration and expansion.

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Stating something clearly thousands of times does not by itself make it true.  The major change in allowing +P loads in S&W pistols in the K frame pistols came with the heavy barrel models in 1959, two years after the change to model numbers.    In the J-frame, the heavy barrel was available around 1967, but it was't standard on the Model 36 until 1975 and S&W didn't +P mark the Model 36 until 1996 when it came out on the J-Magnum frame.  

To be fair, not all modern J-Magnum frame pistols have a heavy barrel and some of those are +P stamped.  The Model 36-10 is a good example, but I also suspect the metallurgy in them is different than it is in an early J frame Model 36 or Chiefs Special.

Now with that said, I don't think firing five rounds of +P self defense ammo in earnest in an early Model 36 or Pre-Model 36 Chiefs Special is going to harm the revolver at all, so I have no qualms about carrying +P loads in my Model 36 no dash.   However, I practice using standard pressure loads.

I only brought this up because I was given a box of Remington ultimate defense 38 spl +p and this is the only gun I have practical use for it in.

Buffalo Bore makes some good standard pressure carry loads.

Personally, I like the CorBon 110 gr loads.

I would not worry about any +P factory loads in a M60.

if you need  +P .38 special, buy a .357. There are plenty of standard .38 loads out there that will more than suffice in a SD situation. That being said, I seriously doubt the number that typically is fired during a SD shooting would damage your weapon and even if it did, would you care so long as it saved your bacon?

IIRC Smith and Wesson has stated that any of their steel .38 revolvers made after 1957 were GTG with +P.

The Model 12's and any other aluminum allloy models not so much, although someone on one of the S&W forums was running a steady diet of factory +P through a Model 12  as a long term test and last I heard had seen no metalurgical issues so far. I haven't been over on that site forever so I can't tell you if its still ongoing.

Every model marked smith is good with +p, certainly safe in your 60

This.

Plus P isn't some high powered load that's going to tear your revolver apart. It's equivalent to some of the standard loads of yesteryear before manufacturers started watering loads down.

From a shooting perspective I've found +p disappointing. I expected more recoil and blast considering all the internet hype, but everything I've tried doesn't feel a whole lot hotter. In a steel framed gun it is very manageable. In an alloy framed gun it's just a little peppier.

Don't believe the hype. Use it at your leisure.

Shoot a cylinder full of 135 +P Gold Dots and tell me if you can't notice a difference between that and the standard pressure stuff.  IMO, it's an appreciable difference.

FWIW my normal target load for all my .38's is 4 grains 231 with a 158 Lead SWC. I shoot this in everything, including my alloy framed model 12.

Per the new Hodgdon load books that is .3 grains over MAX, however I developed this load when 231 was an Olin product and their book listed 4 grains as max. One could logically consider this a +P load today although compared to the factory standard 158 lead loads is a ballistic equal in velocity and recoil.

Load your 60 with +P's and you'll be fine. I've got a Model 36 loaded with 135 gold dot +P's and carry it a lot. Some folks have supposedly had issues with the old FBI loads in snubbies with the lead bullets unseating with recoil and jamming between the cylinder and forcing cone but YMMV.

My 1989 Winchester reloading catalog lists 4.3 grains of 231 behind a 158 grain lead bullet for a standard pressure load.

The +p load is listed as 4.6 grains.

Now, all these 158 grain lead bullets are probably not identical.

But, recommended loads have indeed fallen over the years.  Speaking from personal experience, the old loads didn't seem to be too hot.

I didn't shoot any though aluminum framed guns, but a lot did go through a couple of Charter Arms .38s, which aren't the toughest things in the world.

I wouldn't worry about very limited use of +p in the old guns, (old meaning since the late 1950s).

But, in the lightweight short barreled guns, I don't think they offer a significant increase in performance.

Unless you are shooting some old pre WWII gun I wouldn't worry about any steel S&W.

Another issue is most folks recommend training with what you will carry . Smaller guns can have significant point of impact shift with different loads

20150319_090636 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

These actually show slightly higher energy figures, but the Speers are currently in the gun. No biggie.

I shoot my carry ammo regularly.

A cylinder full of 357's in an Airlite is another story, but is still tolerable.
Screenshot_2015-01-13-15-11-13 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

Purely subjective.....    I remember shooting some .357's through my Dad's 66 with a short barrel and I didn't like it at all.  His grips are just the standard wood ones though.  Magna's I guess you call them.  I remember thinking it rocked way up and my middle finger on my right hand didn't like it at all.  I can't even imagine what a little j frame would be like.

Absolutely. After a decade or so of shooting a 44 Magnum most anything in a 357 feels alright.

Shot placement is more important.

Sure, but if you can shoot a more powerful round at the same speed and with the same accuracy why would you not?

Most standard 38 special loads have marginal performance. A lot of +P's aren't much better. For a relatively low powered load out of a compromisingly short barrel, it makes sense.

Much like the 40S&W auto hate, it only doesn't make sense if it reveals shooter limitations. It's more a matter of technique and familiarity.

I would use them as carry loads and feel good about it

yes but just g a +P rated gun

Those 38 sp +p dont expand at all. ScubaOZ did a youtube video on them and tested them twice.
Neither test showed expansion.  I would ge some PDX 1 or XTP.  I have XTP 158 gr HP in my 38.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1RpsfsFVKQ

They are pretty old school but work well. Like most conventional hollow points they can get clogged with enough clothing materials. This is FL and that tends to not be a problem.

As mentioned, I'm carrying GDHP +P right meow.

i have a model 36, and it may not be officially marked for +P but everything i read said a post war .38 smith is G2G with +P.

I carry 158 grain +P Winchester LHP in my 1970's M60. Practice with standard loads and just shoot your +P carry ammo whenever you change to fresh rounds. It may increase wear a tiny amount, but most of us won't shoot a snub .38 enough to ever wear one out.