I picked up a 19-4 4". It's in great shape, and looks like it's barely been shot. My question is I keep hearing about .357 mag damaging it. Is it just 125gr, or any magnum rounds? I've got some buffalo bore 158gr JHP, would that be ok?

Buffalo Bore can be loaded fairly hot.
I have a 3" Md.66, I shoot mostly wadcutters but I have run a few boxes of Fred.125s through it...still nice and tight.

A picture would be nice, they are beautiful guns.





The issue with 125 gr. bullets is the coal, three paragraphs above the graph on this link explain it in more detail than I can.


http://www.gunblast.com/Butch_MagnumLoads.htm





As stated in the post above, BB 158's are loaded hot, and I've seen it mentioned on the S&W forum that BB 180's are not recommended.





It's a K frame, a steady diet of very hot loads will eventually take it's toll on the frame.  Stick with 158gr. or wadcutters in a moderate load and you'll have a great shooting gun for a long time.

 

This is what I do with my 6" 19-4.  !50-160 grain cast lead is the usual diet but some 158 JSP's as well.    I don't pound on the old gun.  I just make light to mid range loads for the most part to practice basic revolver shooting.

Can we see a pic?

my opinion is its the 125s & 110 grain loads that koosen the action & lead build up from poorly maintained guns that causes cracked forcing cones.  Go get some 357 f158 grns from the LGS and alot of 38 spc .  a few rounds of bufffalo bore won't hurt it but don't get over zealous.

The article in Gunblast is explaining the weakness in the forcing cone area very well. The fact that no more model 19 barrels are available new  -and used ones are extremely rare - I another reason to be cautious.

I am mostly shooting 158 gr lead bullets with a hot .38 Special load through my model 19s for many years. I am not shooting a lot of .357 Magnum anymore but when I do, I shoot it out of revolvers better suited.

Most logical people are not going to shoot a hundred full house magnums a week for the next five years to wear out a k frame magnum.
Most every 357 owner I know might shoot a few boxes of full house for testing carry or hunting loads etc then plink with 38's .
Abusing the gun ( any gun) with constant full house magnums is of no benefit what so ever.
Let's say you shoot 500 38's a month and 50 magnums a month. Probably get at least 20 years service out of the model 19. Just because a number of heavy use guns had issues with light bullet weight (125 grain) full house magnums does not turn the gun suddenly in to some sort of delicate china cup.

The 125 gr loads may damage the forcing cone.   Use the 140 or heavier and it should be no problem.  

The problem with the forcing cone did not show up until the 125 gr loads came out and the PDs started using factory ammo for all shooting.  Used to be the practice and qualifying  ammo was the factory wadcutters.   Full loads were rarely used.

I have had a number of M19/66 revolvers over the years with no barrel problems.  

S&W has a new M66-8 with a heavier design barrel if you want to shoot a lot of heavy loads.

They made 19's with a round butt?  I really like that one AndyD.  Combat grips, bobbed hammer.  Nice.  It'd be even better with fixed sights.

The highlighted sentence is significant.

When the Model 19 was first introduced (1955), most police departments practiced with .38 Special loads and then carried .357 Magnum loads.  However, in the 1970's there were some law suits related to officers being insufficiently trained using the lighter .38 Special for training, and in some cases qualification, and then carrying the heavier recoiling .357 Magnum round.  The end result was that most police departments switched to using the same .357 Magnum load for training, qualification and duty use.

The Model 19 was designed with the prior practice in mind and the intention was that the ratio of .38 Special to .357 Magnum rounds would be on the order of  hundreds to 1, given how infrequently police firearms were actually used in the line of duty.  With the change to .357 Magnum, the intended use changed significantly to someone well beyond that the revolver was designed to accommodate.

Prior to the early 1970s the 158 gr LSWC was a standard load for the .357 Magnum.  However, in the early 1970s the 125 gr JHP .357 Magnum load became the go to load for police use.  Consequently,  so you had both a change in the ratio of .357 Magnum used in the model 19 and a change in the standard load to 125 grains.

Not surprisingly, the 125 grain load took the rap when Model 19 forcing cones started cracking.   The problem is that the 125 gr bullet it not the problem.

The 125 gr theory is that the shorter bullet allows gas to exit the case ahead of the bullet and "superheat" the steel in the forcing cone, thus making it more susceptible to gas cutting and impact damage from the bullet.   The problem with that theory is that the heat transfer that can occur in that very small increment of time (about .00002 second) between the gas getting to the forcing cone and the bullet arriving across the .12" gap that the 125 gr bullet creates allows insufficient time to "superheat" the steel.  But God forbid science and thermodynamics destroy a good gun rumor...

The real problems relate to shooting a large number of full power .357 magnum loads in the Model 19.  Those hot .357 magnum loads, whether they are 125, 140 or 158 gr loads, the to have slower burning granular powders.  A slow burning colloidal ball powder will have particles that are still unburnt at the forcing cone and in conjunction with the hot gas, they can be somewhat abrasive when they impact the forcing cone.  Over time, you can get gas cutting on the inner edges of the forcing cone and those v shaped cuts then create street risers that concentrate the stress of a full power .357 Magnum bullet impacting the forcing cone.   Given the clearance cut for the crane at the 6 o'clock position, the forcing cone is much thinner in that area and the combination of a v shaped gas cut concentrating the stress of a full power .357 magnum bullet impacting the forcing cone can over time cause the forcing cone to crack in that area.

Cracked forcing cones in Model 19s are still very rare, but the smart money is to primarily shoot .38 Special rounds and only very rarely shoot .357 Magnum rounds in the revolver.  Thinking that shooting a regular diet of the longer 140 grain 158 grain round won't be a problem is a serious mistake.  

Here's mine.

I avoid hot 110-125gr magnum loads.

I mostly shoot 140-158 hardcast or XTP's

6gr W231 / HP38 over a 158grSWC is a nice load.
or 7.gr UNIQUE

Wow! That's nice!

19's were made with round and square butts. If you're looking for a fixedsight magnum K frame then the mod 13 and 65
were fixed sight in blued steel and stainless.....

Some good responses here. I mostly shoot 38+p cast bullet reloads in mine. I never have used the Buffalo Boar but I have shot some stiff 173 grain cast bullet loads. My oldest one was my dads that he bought in the early 70s and it is still sound.

The 2 1/2 " models were round butts, the 4 and 6" M19s SB guns. The combat grips started as original S&W FGC grips that I bought for $5 and contoured to fit my hands better. I installed a DA hammer from a S&W M10 parts kit that I got at J&G.

If you want a blued fixed sight .357 Magnum, the M13 with a three or four inch barrel is a good but no longer cheap choice.

Thanks for the info, guys. I can't afford to feed it a steady diet of magnum rounds, anyways. I will mostly shoot .38 specials and mix in some magnum rounds, and just not worry about it. I doubt a few barn burners every now and then will hurt anything.

Pic, as requested.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice


I think the 4"ers are the best looking 19's.

Another way to look at it is to compare the forcing cone of a J-Magnum framed .357 with a K-frame .357.

There's a lot more metal in the K frame .357 than the J-Magnum frame .357.  

Not surprisingly Smith and Wesson advises shooting a Model 60 in .357 primarily with .38s and carrying .357s for self defense use only.  Just like they did with the Model 19.   Over the years, the Model 36 was beefed up with the heavy barrel models approved for use wrote .38+P loads, and eventually the Model 60 in .38, .38+P and eventually .357 Magnum.  The metallurgy has improved, but shooting .357s in one is still pressing it to the limit.

The Model 19 is a heavier, and should tolerate a lot more .357s than a Model 60, but I'd still recognize the design has limits and was designed primarily for shooting with .38s and carrying with .357s.

Nice looking guns in here, I would avoid feeding it a steady diet of full house rounds as well.

one thing to consider, is S&W is not making model19 barrels anymore.

so if you crack a 19 forcing cone, you're pretty much screwed,  . . . . . until you can find a clean used barrel.  good luck with that

Nailed it.  

Also congrats on the 19, its a beauty!

Absolutely right, just that it is rather if one ever finds a model 19 barrel. I have seen one M19 with a stylish model 66 barrel.

I ordered a 19-4 direct from Century through my LGS. I looked at it today but have to go back next week and pick it up. It's in really nice shape with a few little specs here and there but doesn't look shot much at all. I have a 15-3 coming next week also but I don't expect it will be as nice, they only had GOOD conditions ones left.

niiiiiiiice

Very nice. I lucked into a nickel 19-3 in the box last week. Only has powder burns on three alternating cylinders, so I don't think it's been fired outside of the factory. I'll be a good little ARFcommer and post pics tomorrow, need to get to bed.

I hate you.

I picked up the 19-4 I ordered direct from Century today. I ordered a VG but I would say this one is excellent. I cannot find one rust spec and it has very little finish wear. I have a 15-3 coming on Thursday,  it s a "good" condition rating so I don't expect as nice a revolver.

Well, we need pictures.

I love nickel.  Although I've never owned one.  But I love it.  


Waiting to see this wonderous thing!  

I have over 50k through my old service 19 with several thousand being 125's. It may loosen up with a lot of hot loads but who knows how many. If it concerns you buy a shooter. The 19 is my favorite handgun and I love shooting 125's.
JR

Few if mine.

That's what I understand.

The M19 was a "shoot lots of .38's and a few .357's" kind of gun, by reputation.

I've fired tons of home cast 110 grain LSWC .357 reloads.  No issues.  Maybe I'm lucky?  Thank God my magnumitis phase has run its course.

These days, it's all cast bullet reloads varying between +p .38, down to -p softball reloads, and everything in between.

I think of the Model 19 as a very strong .38, when I'm reloading for it.  They are supposed to have an unlimited ability to digest 158 grain lead bullets, FWIW.