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Posted: 10/16/2014 10:03:25 PM EDT
I am curious if there is either a source for unbored X frame cylinders or a S&W specialist gunsmith who is capable of doing things that aren't normally done to these guns?

What I am thinking of is a five or six shot X frame in what I would call 44 maximum. The mental image is pretty simple. A 444 Marlin cut down short enough that you can load it with a Keith style wad cutter and still get it in the cylinder.

Now with that said I'm sure this isn't an original idea so if someone knows of a gunsmith who is already doing this that would be great too.

The next logical step if this is doable would be to do the same concept only neck it to 41 cal and then after that maybe to 357. I imagine that might have a fairly unpleasant high pitch muzzle blast but I still think it would be cool. Could you imagine possibly pushing a 158gr bullet around 2700-2900 fps out of an 8 3/8" barrel?

Is it even possible? I want to find out.

Link Posted: 10/17/2014 11:21:37 AM EDT
[#1]
This has been done before. One was called the .357 Maximum the other the 445. Dan Wesson produced them back in the 1980's. For what I heard the only thing they excelled at was top strap erosion.

The Dan Wesson's had interchangeable barrels so you could adjust the barrel/cylinder gap really close. Erosion was still a big problem.
Link Posted: 10/17/2014 11:26:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Couple of posts lower (Dan Wesson) jaFlowers has a 445 Supermag. He likes it; you should ask him about actual performance.
Link Posted: 10/17/2014 11:47:23 AM EDT
[#3]
So I have no idea about where to source a unbored cylinder but as to the 44 Maxim ......just go with the 445 SuperMag. Starline already makes the brass and as long as you're handloading and careful you can work up some monster loads for it.....loads that are almost comparable to the 454 Casull. I have the Dan Wesson and also a custom Encore barrel that with the brake makes 16 1/8" so I can use it as a rifle or handgun. Fun cartridge with heavy bullets, good luck.
Link Posted: 10/19/2014 6:24:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Besides the 1.61" long .445 SuperMag case, Elgin Gates had designed even longer versions he dubbed the .448 and .449 SuperMag.  These had cases 1.81" and 1.95" long.
Link Posted: 10/19/2014 10:36:45 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Besides the 1.61" long .445 SuperMag case, Elgin Gates had designed even longer versions he dubbed the .448 and .449 SuperMag.  These had cases 1.81" and 1.95" long.
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That's interesting. Think those would be a bit long in a usable revolver but maybe pretty cool in an Encore. Not sure what you'd gain over the 444 Marlin at that point.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 12:41:10 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


That's interesting. Think those would be a bit long in a usable revolver but maybe pretty cool in an Encore. Not sure what you'd gain over the 444 Marlin at that point.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Besides the 1.61" long .445 SuperMag case, Elgin Gates had designed even longer versions he dubbed the .448 and .449 SuperMag.  These had cases 1.81" and 1.95" long.


That's interesting. Think those would be a bit long in a usable revolver but maybe pretty cool in an Encore. Not sure what you'd gain over the 444 Marlin at that point.


Gates thought that he could shoehorn the .448 SuperMag into the Dan Wesson .445 cylinder.  However, it would fit nicely in an X-Frame.  The advantage over the .444 Marlin would be that they wouldn't have a tapered case.  A.444 Marlin case trimmed down to 1.8" is roughly a .460 S&W Magnum case.  If you want a straight-wall uber-.44 case, you have to start with something like a .30-40 Krag.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 1:34:07 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:  Gates thought that he could shoehorn the .448 SuperMag into the Dan Wesson .445 cylinder.  However, it would fit nicely in an X-Frame.  The advantage over the .444 Marlin would be that they wouldn't have a tapered case.  A.444 Marlin case trimmed down to 1.8" is roughly a .460 S&W Magnum case. If you want a straight-wall uber-.44 case, you have to start with something like a .30-40 Krag.
View Quote


Begging your pardon, did you just tell me an antique Krag can feed .445" Supermag?  Because that's just not right to tell an Aggie something like that.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 1:21:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Highly doubt that S&W would sell that part (I know Dan Wesson would not) just to ovoid the problem of someone not getting this conversion stuff right and the bad press that would follow. S&W had to redesign the X frame to handle the 460 (yea over the 500).

It would be a lot simpler to go with a 460 S&W since they already did all the R&D and got it working correctly. Also the bullets are R&D and on the market.

Just wondering how dead this target animal has to be?
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 1:48:54 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


Begging your pardon, did you just tell me an antique Krag can feed .445" Supermag?  Because that's just not right to tell an Aggie something like that.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:  Gates thought that he could shoehorn the .448 SuperMag into the Dan Wesson .445 cylinder.  However, it would fit nicely in an X-Frame.  The advantage over the .444 Marlin would be that they wouldn't have a tapered case.  A.444 Marlin case trimmed down to 1.8" is roughly a .460 S&W Magnum case. If you want a straight-wall uber-.44 case, you have to start with something like a .30-40 Krag.


Begging your pardon, did you just tell me an antique Krag can feed .445" Supermag?  Because that's just not right to tell an Aggie something like that.


No, I merely suggested that you could make any of the .44 family cases (Russian to SuperMag) from .30-40 Krag brass.  Gates used Krag brass to form his .445 SuperMag prototypes, as did John Lachuk for his pre-.44 Magnum wildcat.  That said, .445 SuperMag would make for an interesting Krag rifle conversion, and I've heard of conversions to .444 Marlin.
Link Posted: 10/20/2014 1:52:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No, I merely suggested that you could make any of the .44 family cases (Russian to SuperMag) from .30-40 Krag brass.  Gates used Krag brass to form his .445 SuperMag prototypes, as did John Lachuk for his pre-.44 Magnum wildcat.  That said, .445 SuperMag would make for an interesting Krag rifle conversion, and I've heard of conversions to .444 Marlin.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:  Gates thought that he could shoehorn the .448 SuperMag into the Dan Wesson .445 cylinder.  However, it would fit nicely in an X-Frame.  The advantage over the .444 Marlin would be that they wouldn't have a tapered case.  A.444 Marlin case trimmed down to 1.8" is roughly a .460 S&W Magnum case. If you want a straight-wall uber-.44 case, you have to start with something like a .30-40 Krag.


Begging your pardon, did you just tell me an antique Krag can feed .445" Supermag?  Because that's just not right to tell an Aggie something like that.


No, I merely suggested that you could make any of the .44 family cases (Russian to SuperMag) from .30-40 Krag brass.  Gates used Krag brass to form his .445 SuperMag prototypes, as did John Lachuk for his pre-.44 Magnum wildcat.  That said, .445 SuperMag would make for an interesting Krag rifle conversion, and I've heard of conversions to .444 Marlin.


 I can hear the woe in the C&R forum from here, several years away.  
Link Posted: 10/21/2014 12:23:42 AM EDT
[#11]
What would any of this gain over just shooting 454 Casuals out of your 460 X frame?
Link Posted: 10/21/2014 5:47:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Hamilton Bowen offers cylinder blanks for Rugers and K frame Smiths so I would imagine he could do one for the X-frame.  I am sure there are other 'smiths that could do it as well.



http://parts.bowenclassicarms.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6&zenid=558f71234de020bae3b869590018bc09
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