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Posted: 8/21/2014 11:52:12 PM EDT
Okay I have a GP100 4.2" Blued would you use 38 P+ or what brand of 357 Magnum would you suggest?
Thanks ahead of time, David.
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125 gr jhp 357 seems to have been the gold standard for pistol one shot stops for years BUT have you ever fired a 357 indoors?? Without hearing protection?? I haven't and don't want to. I use the Hornaday Critical defense. Or should I say I carry it, and PRAY I never have to use it!!
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Quoted: 125 gr jhp 357 seems to have been the gold standard for pistol one shot stops for years BUT have you ever fired a 357 indoors?? Without hearing protection?? I haven't and don't want to. I use the Hornaday Critical defense. Or should I say I carry it, and PRAY I never have to use it!! Doc View Quote Yeah you are right lol, I keep a 92FS at bed side with 2 mags of Crit Defense, I guess more or less this will be my side arm especially when I am on my hunting lease in case a hog jumps me or something like....I do want stopping power, just wondering what you would suggest, and also home defense, etc... Holy shit though I can imagine the noise.
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I was going to say just about anything. Maybe some .38 +p's would be better for the noise issue. Or just some 38 wadcutters.
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Just wondering what do you guys use for the range plinking .... 38 special/357 ... gr / name brand.
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Just wondering what do you guys use for the range plinking .... 38 special/357 ... gr / name brand. View Quote 125gr LRN Bullets over 3.0 grains of Clays in .38spl cases. Should feel like a .22 shooting it out of your GP100. They are tons of fun to shoot in a lightweight J frame. |
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For woods carrying (when I carried my 4" 681) it was either 125JHP or 158JSP; I'm fine with either. That gun's now a bedroom gun and is loaded with +P Nyclad HP's which I think have since been discontinued.
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hmm, no .357 mag anywhere here:
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm |
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If you want full power 357 this should do 1400-1500 out of your barrel length.
Gold standard for a long time, dropped many bad guys. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/125614/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-357-magnum-125-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20 Federal 357B
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Another thing I wanted to ask.... I use those HKS speedloaders for my S&W 38 special, but they seem like they are junk. Is there a better manufacturer for those? I bought probably 10 of them, and by now they all come lose on their own, etc..
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Thanks again for all the replies lol my shopping cart is going to have a grab bag of bullets, but just from you guys are posting and reading reviews all of these suggestions seems spot on.
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Would you say not a bad choice in a 4" ? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Hard to beat Gold Dot of any flavor. I keep mine loaded with the gold dot 38+P short barrel load. Would you say not a bad choice in a 4" ? Good choice regardless of barrel length. It's loaded with low flash powder to minimize the fireball out of a snub nose. Same advantages apply to any barrel length. I use it for several reasons - works in 357 or 38 revolvers - lower noise and blast than 357 magnum loads - same ammo I use in my j frame carry gun - my wife would not be happy to fire a 357 mag load from my 2 inch model 60, especially indoors, neither would I |
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Quoted: Good choice regardless of barrel length. It's loaded with low flash powder to minimize the fireball out of a snub nose. Same advantages apply to any barrel length. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hard to beat Gold Dot of any flavor. I keep mine loaded with the gold dot 38+P short barrel load. Would you say not a bad choice in a 4" ? Good choice regardless of barrel length. It's loaded with low flash powder to minimize the fireball out of a snub nose. Same advantages apply to any barrel length. Awesome, thanks.
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Another thing I wanted to ask.... I use those HKS speedloaders for my S&W 38 special, but they seem like they are junk. Is there a better manufacturer for those? I bought probably 10 of them, and by now they all come lose on their own, etc.. View Quote I prefer safariland speedloaders, but in 30+ years of using both brands I've had no real, objective problems with HKS at all. I personally just don't like the 'wiggle' that they intentionally build into the hks, but some people actually prefer it. I have hks's for three of my revolvers and have never had a failure with them. I just don't really like them. The hks has the advantage of being available for more gun models than the safarilands are, which is the main reason I own them. |
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I just ordered 4 of the Safari Comp II, they were $10.81 a piece. All the video's I watched everyone said the same thing. Much tighter grasp on ammo, than the HKS...that is what bothered me about the HKS.
I was looking at that 5 Star Firearms speed loaders they look awesome, but not sure I need billet speed loaders.
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Okay I have a GP100 4.2" Blued would you use 38 P+ or what brand of 357 Magnum would you suggest? Thanks ahead of time, David. View Quote 38spl CD 110gr 38spl 148 WC 38spl + P 130gr Win Bonded 38spl +P 135gr GD 38spl +P 110gr CD 38spl+P 158 SWC H. P. Even though Im a huge S&W JKL fan !!! I do have love for the Ruger GP100 I had the GP100 3inch and GP100 6inch The first group I shot at 35yarnds standing put all rounds into the x ring of B27! yes I used the 6incher for that. The 3inch I use to carry AIWB and used full boat 125gr SJHP . Then I got smart and learn to use 38spl+P 158gr SWC H.P. . Back then no fancy bullets. Doing Bill drills really improved. I could shoot faster and hold a tighter 6rd group. Faster more rounds on bad guy. If I did have to use a full power 357mag load I would look at 165gr Remington core lock . 180gr Bonded Nothing under 158grn 357mag. |
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I just ordered 4 of the Safari Comp II, they were $10.81 a piece. All the video's I watched everyone said the same thing. Much tighter grasp on ammo, than the HKS...that is what bothered me about the HKS. I was looking at that 5 Star Firearms speed loaders they look awesome, but not sure I need billet speed loaders. View Quote been using both type of loaders and even speed strips I never had problem with HKS for S&W JK frames or GP100. I have a safari land for my J frame that is a bitch at times it a older model , I'm sure they have revised since I bought it. |
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Quoted: been using both type of loaders and even speed strips I never had problem with HKS for S&W JK frames or GP100. I have a safari land for my J frame that is a bitch at times it a older model , I'm sure they have revised since I bought it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I just ordered 4 of the Safari Comp II, they were $10.81 a piece. All the video's I watched everyone said the same thing. Much tighter grasp on ammo, than the HKS...that is what bothered me about the HKS. I was looking at that 5 Star Firearms speed loaders they look awesome, but not sure I need billet speed loaders. been using both type of loaders and even speed strips I never had problem with HKS for S&W JK frames or GP100. I have a safari land for my J frame that is a bitch at times it a older model , I'm sure they have revised since I bought it. |
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Gold Dot short barrel.
Reloads are critical defense. Not sure that I'll actually give a shit how loud the reloads are indoors if I need them. |
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- Who cares how loud it is?
- Why would you want the extra recoil and penetration of a .357? Auto glass? Bears? - Wadcutters make a nice neat .357 hole. Zero expansion. Too much penetration. Nice for target shooting. Absolutely horrible choice for SD. - Stick to the .38 special loads listed in the ammo sticky for self defense: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.38spl/.357mag -- 135gr .38 special Gold Dot -- 110gr .38 special CorBon DPX (copper bullet.. hence the light weight) |
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I just find all my HKS get so lose at times, if say they are in my shirt pockets, etc.. at range some have slipped open. I just watched a video of speed strips, never knew they made that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I just ordered 4 of the Safari Comp II, they were $10.81 a piece. All the video's I watched everyone said the same thing. Much tighter grasp on ammo, than the HKS...that is what bothered me about the HKS. I was looking at that 5 Star Firearms speed loaders they look awesome, but not sure I need billet speed loaders. been using both type of loaders and even speed strips I never had problem with HKS for S&W JK frames or GP100. I have a safari land for my J frame that is a bitch at times it a older model , I'm sure they have revised since I bought it. IMO HKS speedloader quality has declined over the years. I have some older ones that hold the rounds pretty well, but the new stuff seems to have a lot more play in it. You will like the Comp 2's though. |
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My .357 stays loaded with Speer 125 grain .357 Magnum Gold dots, unless it's left out for my girlfriend to use. If it's for her, I use .38 +P 125 grain Gold Dots.
My everyday plinking loads are a cast 175 grain Keith LSWC in a .38 Special case over either a light Bullseye load to get it to 800 fps, or a load of 4876 to get the same bullet to 1150 fps. In a .357 case, I use a lot of 2400 and the aforementioned cast LSWC.
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Quoted: - Who cares how loud it is? - Why would you want the extra recoil and penetration of a .357? Auto glass? Bears? - Wadcutters make a nice neat .357 hole. Zero expansion. Too much penetration. Nice for target shooting. Absolutely horrible choice for SD. - Stick to the .38 special loads listed in the ammo sticky for self defense: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.38spl/.357mag -- 135gr .38 special Gold Dot -- 110gr .38 special CorBon DPX (copper bullet.. hence the light weight) View Quote The only thing .38 special and .357 have in common is they can be fired from the same gun. I don't see them as interchangeable ,not even close.
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The only thing .38 special and .357 have in common is they can be fired from the same gun. I don't see them as interchangeable ,not even close. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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- Who cares how loud it is? - Why would you want the extra recoil and penetration of a .357? Auto glass? Bears? - Wadcutters make a nice neat .357 hole. Zero expansion. Too much penetration. Nice for target shooting. Absolutely horrible choice for SD. - Stick to the .38 special loads listed in the ammo sticky for self defense: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.38spl/.357mag -- 135gr .38 special Gold Dot -- 110gr .38 special CorBon DPX (copper bullet.. hence the light weight) The only thing .38 special and .357 have in common is they can be fired from the same gun. I don't see them as interchangeable ,not even close. For self defense you want a round that fully expands and penetrates at least 12". The .38 special load does this. Why would you want the additional recoil and muzzle blast of the .357 load? And I would say that two rounds that can be fired from the same .357 revolver have a great deal in common. |
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Remington 125 gr golden sabers are fine if you are looking for a mild shooting round; it is a medium velocity round that falls between 38sp +p and full power 357 loads. I recommend that for any smaller j-frame size revolver.
For full power cartridges I have kind of moved on to the 125gr Gold Dot. Watching the brassfetcher gelatin test video out on youtube made that decision really easy. One of the most impressive gelatin test videos I have seen for any caliber. |
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Either the 125gr Remington SJHP or the Federal 125gr SJHP whichever I can find. They are the rounds that put the 357 magnum at the top of the man stopping list.
I don't know why anyone would shoot a lower powered round in their firearm for personal defense. The only reason I would use 38 spl+P would be because that's all my gun was rated for. As far as the sound issue is concerned it is a non issue as far as I am concerned. It is like using a hard recoiling rifle hunting. You don't feel the recoil while hunting and you won't hear the gun shot in the heat of the moment in a self defensive situation. Afterwards is a different story. |
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The reason you don't use a .357 is that is doesn't buy you a thing for self defense. Nada. Zilch. The .38 special loads cited in the ammo sticky offer ample expansion and plenty of penetration. The .357 does however have extra recoil, muzzle blast, and many loads will over penetrate. All of which are bad for self defense.
There seems to be a lot of confusion on terminal ballistics. A .38 special is fine. So is a 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp, .357sig, .45 colt, 44 mag, and even some .357 magnum loads. However, if we're talking about self defense against human beings, none of them are any better than the .38 special. If you expand enough and you penetrate enough, you're golden. So pick what you shoot best. BTW.. there is no such thing as 'stopping power' in handguns. Never was. Unless you hit a major bone or key piece of the central nervous system, you shut down the bad guy's hydraulic system and then he stops. |
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Oh just got my comp II safariland speedloaders in and wow they are huge improvement over the HKS, I have been using HKS forever too.
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125gr LRN Bullets over 3.0 grains of Clays in .38spl cases. Should feel like a .22 shooting it out of your GP100. They are tons of fun to shoot in a lightweight J frame. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Just wondering what do you guys use for the range plinking .... 38 special/357 ... gr / name brand. 125gr LRN Bullets over 3.0 grains of Clays in .38spl cases. Should feel like a .22 shooting it out of your GP100. They are tons of fun to shoot in a lightweight J frame. 158gr LSWC over 3.6 grains of Bullseye...now that is a mild plinking (new shooter) load. My wife loves it in my (now hers) 4" S&W 66. I carry Speer Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber for 357, not too bad when I carried the 3" S&W 65. Now I am carrying them in 3" WC GP100. Not too bad to shoot noise, recoil and muzzle flash wise. I have shot a box of each of my carry ammo in the GP100, I have had it less than a month. I routinely shoot some of my carry ammunition. I practice with regular 357 magnum loads, lately 158 JSP. These are much worse to shoot than the SD loads IMHO. I also shoot alot of 38 special (lately Winchester white box or Agulia 130 grain JRN) to work on trigger skills. FWIW, I also carry a 9mm (G19 and / or Shield) I have SD ammunition for those but practice with 124 grain ball. This is not the same as practicing with 357 using 38, the 38 special rounds are alot less powerful. (This would be comparable to using a 22 to practice with your AR) |
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The reason you don't use a .357 is that is doesn't buy you a thing for self defense. Nada. Zilch. The .38 special loads cited in the ammo sticky offer ample expansion and plenty of penetration. The .357 does however have extra recoil, muzzle blast, and many loads will over penetrate. All of which are bad for self defense. View Quote So you're saying every self defense scenario will take place under 7 yards and will not involve targets that chose to engage you from light cover? |
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hmm, no .357 mag anywhere here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm View Quote And who cares? 357 mag is one of the most effective handguns you can own for defense against our retarded species, how can I say this you ask? Easy i used and carried one for years on the street after the almighty auto took over. My experience is based on real world fact not dentist written BS and conjecture, period. OP run Fed or Rem 125 JHP's, no need for some whiz bang bullet these have been putting bad folks on the ground for decades. If you want heavier get some 145 Win Silvertips. And for those who say the 38 does anything a 357 will do, you really need to stop giving advice if you don't know of which you speak, physics are physics... |
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So you're saying every self defense scenario will take place under 7 yards and will not involve targets that chose to engage you from light cover? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The reason you don't use a .357 is that is doesn't buy you a thing for self defense. Nada. Zilch. The .38 special loads cited in the ammo sticky offer ample expansion and plenty of penetration. The .357 does however have extra recoil, muzzle blast, and many loads will over penetrate. All of which are bad for self defense. So you're saying every self defense scenario will take place under 7 yards and will not involve targets that chose to engage you from light cover? In your car or in the woods I think you're dead on with that observation. However for inside the home self defense: You would have to have quite a large house to achieve the distance where a .357 is more effective than a .38. I don't know what the distance would be exactly, but it's more than 21 feet. The only light cover in my house is the couch. Wouldn't stop a 135gr .38. Especially after the hollowpoint gets plugged with stuffing. Suppose there are levels of cover depending on your interior decorator. However, if something larger than a .38 is called for, then there are an awful lot of people using 9mm out of luck as well. Not sure even my .45 would go through the dresser if the bad guy goes all John Wayne and flips it over. In anything like a normal home SD scenario, which is where the focus belongs when choosing ammo, the .357 is a disadvantage. In something the size of a GP100 or K frame, the vast majority of folks are going to have much more control with the .38. This means better shot placement and quicker follow up shots. That easily trumps less likely 'what if's'. Of course when a particular situation calls for covering greater distances and/or you may be faced with significant barriers, a rifle or shotgun would be a better choice. |
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And who cares? 357 mag is one of the most effective handguns you can own for defense against our retarded species, how can I say this you ask? Easy i used and carried one for years on the street after the almighty auto took over. My experience is based on real world fact not dentist written BS and conjecture, period. OP run Fed or Rem 125 JHP's, no need for some whiz bang bullet these have been putting bad folks on the ground for decades. If you want heavier get some 145 Win Silvertips. And for those who say the 38 does anything a 357 will do, you really need to stop giving advice if you don't know of which you speak, physics are physics... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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hmm, no .357 mag anywhere here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm And who cares? 357 mag is one of the most effective handguns you can own for defense against our retarded species, how can I say this you ask? Easy i used and carried one for years on the street after the almighty auto took over. My experience is based on real world fact not dentist written BS and conjecture, period. OP run Fed or Rem 125 JHP's, no need for some whiz bang bullet these have been putting bad folks on the ground for decades. If you want heavier get some 145 Win Silvertips. And for those who say the 38 does anything a 357 will do, you really need to stop giving advice if you don't know of which you speak, physics are physics... Your opinions have not been subjected to what is now decades of scrutiny in juried papers, documented analysis, and correlation between real world results and modeling analogs so excuse me if I choose to instead listen to those who have been through this rigor. Modern terminal ballistics has stood up very well to the scrutiny of a broad spectrum of smart people. Especially the dentist stuff. I think it's pretty reasonable to believe the work and conclusions of the 100's, maybe 1000's that have contributed to terminal ballistics as we now understand them. It's also the foundation of modern bullet design. Reading and understanding this broad body of work represents a better chance of making good choices than listening to any given opinion on internet. No matter how passionately that view might be held. |
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I'd rather be shot with one of those fancy smancy 38+P's than a 158gr 357 magnum.
So I reckon that'll tell you which one is best. |
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