Hey guys;
I recently bought this S&W 686P from a guy online who was selling it as "Factory New". Earlier tonight I went over to my FFL's to inspect it and do the paperwork. What I saw looked..well...more used than new to me and my FFL agrees. I've already contacted the seller to see what he would be willing to do to make it right, but in the meantime I'd thought I'd post up some pics and get your guys thoughts on whether this is in factory new or used. I uploaded the pics to my photobucket account, but because I use it to also sell stuff on ebay and I didn't want them snooping into this folder, I put the password 686plus on it. Here are the links to the pics;

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
Picture 7

Here are my concerns as to why I think this firearm is used.
-fouling or carbon deposits can be seen in most of the chambers of the cylinder.
-Cylinder has some kind of rings around chambers on side of cylinder that meets forcing cone (see pics 1,2 and 5)
-Forcing cone has lots of fouling on it and some inside barrel at breech end.
-There are some small fine scratches around muzzle and a very small amount of fouling inside barrel.
-Firearm itself isn't very shiny and polished looking. Especially the trigger-it looks dirty and used.

I know that every manufacturer test fires a firearm once or twice before it leaves the factory floor, but it shouldn't look this dirty and used to me.

For comparison, I went on Gunbroker and looked for a similar one for sale. Here is one for sale that is listed "new-old stock'. Unfortunately there isn't a closeup of the other side of the cylinder, but looking at things like the forcing cone and the trigger, now that looks like a new firearm to me.
Link

I am hoping to get some feedback from you guys, so if you could please check out the photos and let me know your thoughts. Again the password is 686plus
Thanks,
Mav

Looks used to me.

First post

Smith SS guns don't come shiny and polished looking from the factory, the finish is slightly dull, usually they end up polished after being used- to get rid of scratches/make them look new.

The trigger looks normal, that is color case hardening.

I agree it has been shot more than the factory would have done, burn rings on the front of the cylinder.

What did you pay? Great gun in great shape even if it is not factory new.

I'm thinking new old stock on this one as well.  Check the serial number, see if you can get a build date.  Hard to tell from the photos but I didn't see anything conclusive.

Very lightly used. Give it a good cleaning and see how it looks. The crud inside the cylinders could be left from a poorly sized swab.

Looks used to me, but used little.

If you look in Pic 2, the carbon "rings" look like some 38's were shot through it, as the "ring" is set back in the cylinder.

Also, the burn rings around the chambers on the front of the cylinder.

I would be pissed if I bought that gun, and it was indicated as "new in box".

looks test fired

Thanks guys-glad to see that you all agree. And yeah I am a little ticked that I bought this firearm thinking it was new and found out the latter. Last night I emailed the seller, included the pics and asked him if there was anything he could do to make it right. This was his response:

"I have had that gun since March of 2012. I got it from one of the biggest wholesalers in the midwest. That gun has never been fired except for the test fire that every gun does. As far as being used that is completely wrong. It has been to gunshows and displayed but that is it. That is the gun you bid on and the one I shipped no one else."

That was his entire response. Nothing explaining the things I pointed out that I also pointed out in this thread. Nothing about "hey I am sorry that you are unhappy or concerned,  or would you like to return it", etc. That was it. I haven't replied to him yet. I am not sure what to do at this point. Let me know your guys thoughts.
Thanks,
Mav

It's clearly used.... not to a degree that I would worry about it, but if you paid for a new gun then I would have a discussion with the seller. Although I imagine since you didn't get to see the gun before you bought it that speaking with them might be difficult.

Sounds like a gun that's been to one too many shows.  Stuff gets handled a lot there.  It can pick pick up a ding or two.  Technically still new in the box, just not pristine just left the factory new.  I wouldn't sweat if it were mine, depending on the price paid.

Looks like a new gun to me.  They are test fired and mine arrived looking just like that.

Used. With about 15 minutes and a can of Duraglit, I could make it look factory new enough to fool you. That guy didn't spend enough time with it.



That MIM trigger is a piece of shit.

The gun is definitely fired but a picture of the cylinder would help - looking for the ring that would indicate a lot of rounds fired.

My vote is also for being lightly used. The deposit rings inside the cylinder seem to come from .38 Special. Wouldn't S&W use .357 Mag for factory testing? Does the recoil shield have the cartridge heads imprinted and polished the steel slightly? That is another give away.

A gun dealer should surely know the difference between new and used and in case of doubt, an honest man will not make a shaky statement like this.

Looks similar to a 629 I ordered new, from a wholesaler, for a customer.  

Looks like every S&W SS revolver I've ever seen come from the factory.  If the cylinder bothers you, get some Blitz and a soft cloth and it should come off pretty easy.

Your revolver looks dirty, but it hasn't been shot much from what I can see. Any flame cutting on the topstrap? I can't see any, but that could just be camera angle. It's quite possible that what you see is only from test firing at the factory. They don't clean them up before they ship them.

Also, that GB revolver you're looking at for comparison has a flash chromed trigger and hammer. Yours has a MIM trigger and hammer with the current version of color case hardening, although it is not at all like the old forged parts that would take on hues of gold and blue. So don't go by those items in your comparison. Better to look at some new S&W's in person to see what the finish is like rather than look at a photo on GB.

If the price was fair, and you have all the paperwork, clean it up and enjoy it. It has a lifetime warranty, and the 686 is one of the best revolvers ever made. Look for any problems with barrel cant, timing or lock up before you sign for it, but if it checks out you won't be able to wear it out in your lifetime.

Wrong grips for factory new, also wrong front sight, should be a red ramp insert. Never mind I looked at wrong photos.

I just got a new S&W 629 V-Comp for Christmas and it was brand new.  It had been shot at the factory but it didn't look anything like that.  Mine was a performance center gun but I'm not sure that would make any difference.  I'd say it was definitely used and not cleaned very well afterwards.  I'd be pissed that the seller misrepresented the gun but if you're still happy with the purchase keep it and ding the guy (if you bought here) for not being honest.

No I got it off Gunbroker. I have bought some firearms in the past off of there and never had any problems, but this was the first time it was from an individual as opposed to the others that were actual firearms dealers in other states.

I haven't test fired it, but the cylinder lockup seems correct. The timing looks correct with the cylinder moving with the trigger slightly being pulled. He didn't offer to take it back so even if I was able to send it back to him which doesn't seem to be feasible, I already paid $20 for shipping it to my FFL and I would then probably have to pay to ship it back.  I think at this point I am going to keep it, but give him negative feedback on GB.

Some questions though from some of your responses I have are;

Some mentioned it is a MIM trigger and it is garbage. What is a MIM trigger and why is it bad? I'm no wheel gun expert but the trigger seems to be okay to me (again I haven't fired it yet).

Also to the person who asked about it it has flame cutting. what is that and what do I look for and is it bad?

Sorry-I'm new to the revolver world. What a great way to enter it.

Thanks,
Mav

MIM stands for Metal Injection Molding; it's a newer process for making parts, including the hammers and triggers. Here's S&W's explanation of the process:

A simple pencil eraser works pretty good for getting those rings off the cylinder face.

Flame cutting results from a steady diet of .357. It's a groove in the top strap, just behind the forcing cone. Some loadings cause more of it than others, IIRC the lighter bullet weight factory loads tend to be the culprit. I've read about it quite a bit, as one of my 686's had some, and most of the veteran wheel-gunners don't seem concerned about it; it's more of a cosmetic issue. I sold the gun in the pic, so i can't take any better photos, but this sort of demonstrates it.



The S&W forum is a goldmine of revolver info. Hope this helps...

He if you want to easily remove the cylinder burn on the from of the cylinder use mothers mag polish it wipes on and wipes off the burn marks around each chamber it is amazing.

Wow I just learned something!  In the guitar world, specifically Fender, "MIM" means Made In Mexico.  So every time I've seen MIM used here that's what I thought it was lol.  I feel smarter already lol

The gun is probably (lightly) used.

I once bought a revolver (old pinned barrel Md. 10) that was truly NOS. It had only 3 blast rings around the front of the cylinder, on every other chamber. Test firing from the factory. After I put a box of rounds through the gun, cleaned it thoroughly, it had all six blast rings on every chamber of the cylinder. Tried hard as I might to eliminate them, the rings are permanent. Maybe the gun was test fired 6 times at the factory. Perhaps. Who really knows?

That's one of those 'it was new when I bought it, and I fired 30 or so rounds of 38SPL from it but don't want to take the $$$$ hit selling it as used even though it is so I am going to insist it's still new' guns.

You know, the gun you SHOULDN'T go shoot 'just to see what it's like' because you know damn well you won't fire more than a few cylinders out of it and it'll decrease alot in value.  But then you do it anyway. :)  I have a 3913LS like that ;)