Mine choked like a JV prostitute after 200rds of Winchester purple junk 2 days ago, but since I was able to clear it apparently its A-OK....

On the negative sides, most of the complaints I've heard about the P2000s (in 40) are from people who had their previous pistols taken and new guns issued along with a being told something like this "this new gun sucks, your score is gonna drop".

I've yet to hear of anyone who was given a transition period or instruction on the P2000 throughout any of DHS (and I've talked to a fair number of folks throughout).  There wasn't instruction on how the LEM trigger works differently, its advantages (uniform trigger pull, easy trigger staging, etc), as well as the advantages of having an ambidextrous pistol (if you've ever done down/disabled drills with Glocks or Sigs, you'll appreciate the P2000's slide catch being on both sides) - and I suspect there are a lot of people remembering the 96D as a lot better than reality was.

For example, the locking block assemblies on the 96s were notorious for breaking.

In contrast, the P2000 suffers hammer struts & trigger springs breaking, where the hammer strut makes the trigger pull something like 20 pounds but still operates, and the trigger spring just requires manually resetting the trigger forward - typically if the P2000 breaks, it can still be made to work.  Institutions using the P2000 in .40 went from 155gr ammo to 180gr ammo to reduce damage to the guns, because for a decade the ammo used for everything - training/qualifications/duty/plinking/take-home - was 155gr JHP ammo, despite costing more, because government.  If you're not shooting fully power defensive ammo all the time, the gun holds up better.  The places using Winchester purple ammo have found that chambers need to be cleaned after shooting rather than just leaving guns dirty, and anecdotally that the purple stuff tends to get all over your fingers and if used in rain it'll jam up in magazines.


On the positive sides, P2000s are reliable (again, breakages on used guns are in the tens of thousands of rounds with hot ammo; malfunctions I see are almost invariably shooter induced), reasonably ergonomic (they tend to fit most people okay), and as accurate as the shooter can make them.  The magazines are stout and the option to have them flush or with a toe is convenient for carry or drills as you see fit.

I've got tens of thousands of rounds through the P2000, and it's a good, solid gun.  I've had one hammer strut and one trigger spring break, and I've had one failure to feed.  I trust it.


OP, it'd be a decent trade.  They're both running similar price right now, too, at least according to Gunbroker offerings.  Check how bright the sights are - if they're Trijicons like you wrote, they should be fairly new, and have some life left to them.  If they're the older Meprolite sights that were HK factory, those are good sights, but depending on the age of the gun, they could be a ways into their service life and might be dimming.

The P2000 has a different grip angle from the Glock, and a slightly higher bore axis.  Given that it's 9mm, any perceptible "muzzle flip" probably won't be too noticeable.  It'll shoot different than the G34, but will be comparable to anything else of similar size/format.

If you get a chance to shoot it and compare, do so.  You'll have your answer within a few rounds, because it'll be a personal choice based on what you want the pistol for.

https://govtribe.com/project/new-duty-pistol-solicitation


Also, I don't know why anyone would be slamming them against a brick wall to extract a casing, nor why a damaged gun wouldn't be replaced.  None of the agencies I know of using them have any problems with replacing damaged guns, with the exception of maybe a location where a mad dictator runs an entire firearms program solo to maintain his kingdom.  And that's a personnel problem, not a gun problem.

i just swapped my P30SK for a P2000 V3 with Trijicons and he also paid me $100 cash.  I am in love with this thing.  My HK45C mag release will be here this week to complete its perfection

The casing was half extracted, but the slide was frozen in place. 3 people (myself included) all of which were sizeable individuals couldn't get it to budge. A retired Gunny/Instructor then took it, slamming the slide against the end of a concrete wall to get it to eject which eventually worked. The gun is plenty accurate, the trigger is mushy, and it jams. So, for 5 years I have been carrying this gun and look forward to hopefully getting something much better.  

I'm buying another one soon, but a 9mm V1.

I had a P2000 and P2000sk .40 in LEM, just was not a fan of the LEM trigger and ended up selling them. As far as size and comfort go, they were amazing for my hands. I love my VP40 but one of these days, ill will pick up another P2000...

EDITED.  Please keep personal insults, back-and-forth, etc. out of tech.  Thanks.  --  HS

EDITED.  Please keep personal insults, back-and-forth, etc. out of tech.  Thanks.  --  HS

RE: 45FMJoe


Agreed, I'll be talking with them (again) to see if I can get a new one (again). Not expecting it to go anywhere, because it never does, but they have some new guys in firearms that hopefully aren't afraid to do some paperwork to rectify this.

I have a P2000 in 9mm.  I didn't like the LEM trigger but read about the trigger job to reduce the trigger pull.  After changing out the springs, I love it. 

I just picked up a P2000 da/sa and I love it.  Previously I've owned usp 45 compact threaded 2 different usp 9mm usp compact and vp9 which I regret selling.  I'm surprised to hear bad things about an HK products reliability.  Put 50 rounds through mine today with no issues, mines in 9mm.

People ignore all the factors and just spout things out...


I love all of my HK's and I have never had any major issues with any of them.  My P2Ksk's are great in .40 and 9mm.  Same with my USP's.  I do not own anything .357 SIG.  My USP's are better than my Beretta 92's.  

I just did that tonight. Was initially concerned about lite LEM not returning the trigger fast enough but it's a non issue. Makes it much nicer than stock LEM but not to light. Hit wall, rolling resistance, break.

That heavy TRS really isn't a good pairing with the LEM trigger, a 7.5 pound pull for what is essentially a single action trigger at that point is still a 7.5 pound trigger. One you put that light TRS in the trigger really shines in what it can do. The reset is a bit light for my taste like you've also found, but its a small trade-off for the better shootabilty.

I agree with Tucansam. We have the P2000 because we have no other choice. We gave up perfectly good USP 40 cals for the slightly thinner and lighter P2000. I have broken three of them all between 8,000 and 12,000 rounds and my partner has broken five of them. The part that broke was the recoil spring assembly lug, that part of the slide just under the muzzle. I understand springs breaking but not the slide. I have never broke any of my Glocks or my USP for that matter. I don't have the confidence in my P2000 the way I do in my Glocks or USP's. I preferred my Beretta trigger to my P2000. It was long but consistant. The Beretta had problems of its own but that is another thread.

I would not trade the G34 for a P2000 but I would for a USP.

SIRVEAUX, I am one of the people that received a proper transition and training on the P2000. I am also one of the instructors that properly transitioned over 500 agents on the P2000. PM me if you ever need more information.

Is this a .40 issue? Because I have never heard of people killing 9mm P series guns like this. In fact, every 9mm P series torture test I've seen has shown the guns last well past the 50k round mark. 

"CBP hates them" Is this based on an across the board opinion or just those few that don't like them? Are there some bad ones, sure but there's enough in inventory to get another one.  Broken springs, don't doubt it can happen but I never saw that as PFI and armorer with over 600 agents and own personal experience but that's me.

Beretta was better.  If you say so but learn to push the trigger forward if that spring broke or shoot gangster style if the transfer bar spring broke, not to mention everything else that would break or fall off in less than 2000 rounds, saw plenty of that. If you don't know about the controversy in how the Beretta was selected in the mid 90s then you haven't been in long enough.  How did it beat a Glock and others?

It works or it doesn't.  It works flawlessly or always craps out.  It's accurate or shoots lousy.  I like it  I don't like it but whatever pistol you buy, is issued to you, etc, there will always be an opinion one way or the other.  I find that some people who say they don't like a gun is because they blame the gun for their failings as a marksman.  This applies to a large portion of people that don't take the time to practice and do their part, they expect the gun to do all the work.

Me, I shoot really good with it, never had problems, carry and shoot it with confidence. LEM trigger is like a 2 stage rifle trigger,  I can use it with no problems and shoot better with it.  In the end it's up to you to get something you like, works and feel confident with, unless you don't have a choice (CBP).  Of course depending on situation I would have my M4 or 870 in hand ready to go with pistol as back up. FYI for 17 years, FI, PFI, armorer, academy and NFU details.

The 9mm doesn't punish the gun the same way the 40 does and that accounts for the problems we had. Same with the Beretta, the Beretta was built around a 9mm and forced into a 40 call and we had multiple problems with them due to that. Any gun can and will have problems and that is no reflection on a person's marksmanship, that is another problem.

CBP doesn't hate the P2000 that would imply that no one is happy with it. I am stating my experience with the P2000 in CBP and is fairly vast. I T&E these in the field and didn't care for them at the time. They were more durable than the Beretta and less than the USP but I didn' t care for the trigger. Very few people that I trained and dealt with liked the trigger to start out and was a large learning curve. The long, very light, initial take up that hit a brick wall prior to firing caused a vast majority of the agents learning to shoot the gun problems mainly slamming the gun and still persists to this day.

The Beretta trigger was long but smooth and consistant. Unfortunately many from the law enforcement communityy have to carry a gun but don' t practice they only qualify. I'm not saying this is right but it is a fact and for them the Beretta was more forgiving. The rest of us either liked it from the start (very few that I came in contact with) or manned up and became proficient with the tool that may some day save our lives.

Concerning the USP,  between myself and others that I have had this discussion with and who have used both firearms extensively, not one would take the P2000 over the USP. Other circles of people may have a different opinion.

There is a reason why BORTAC held on to their USP'S for so long when the field had to switch to the P2000 and why they also have gone to the P30L when no one else has been allowed to. I am not sure if they all have gone to the P30L due to funding but all the ones I dealt with had them.

This thread makes me feel weird. It went from P2000 love to P2000 hate. I'm not in law enforcement in any capacity so I won't question the opinion and experiences of those who are. My 9mm P2000 is among my favorites to shoot. I've shot it a lot and 10 years or so back I carried it everywhere. But then I returned to my 1911 roots and have very recently returned to carrying HK and Glock. Mostly USPc .45 My experience with P2000 has been positive but pros have expressed otherwise. I've been on the opposite side with airplanes many times.

When did you start shooting 185's? No one I know is issued anything but 180's now. The purple stuff is garbage and will not be renewed as far as I know.
I have never had an issue with mine since they came in to the service. Good pistol as far as I am concerned.

We are not pros just have had it forced down our throats and you either accept it, reject it, or like most deal with it. Sometimes you have to invest in what you are given and make the best of it if you want to win. The whinning ended shortly after the transition and now we just like to complain. If your not complaining things remain status quo. I should add that if you complain you should also have suggestions for improvement or you just become bothersome. I can think of a whole hell of a lot worse we could have had. It is an HK and HK are generally very reliable and accurate but when the government gets involved things get can screwed up. Our agency has moved forward in leaps and bounds compared to what we had in the past and we have some real top notch guys getting us the best equipment they can under the government restrictions. As far as this thread goes the P2000 is a very good firearm it is just that they could have kept the excellent USP line up and added interchangeable grips and ambi slide release and had an awesome firearm without going the P2000 thinned down version. This is just one man's opinion and there is value in each and every opinion given. After all, different view points are the mother of invention.

I bitch because they break springs and small parts like it's going out of style.

You are correct things do break and the bigger the station/sector the bigger the pool of experience. I don't know of any other civilian agency that any company can get a better field test of their product than us. We break everything and companies improve because of it. Take a look at Ford, Chevy and Chrysler and think of how their vehicles improved because of the pounding we gave their vehicles.

I understand springs breaking. If you shoot enough and don't change out your recoil spring and other wear items namely springs, you will have problems a lot faster than normal. We make a hardy attempt to disassemble every gun at our station, it is a small station, once per year and replace all springs whether they need it or not. When we first got the P2000 I was told that I  would not have to change out the recoil spring for the life of the gun, which as you know is considered 10,000 rounds. After the slide began breaking I was told to change out the recoil springs every 5,000 rounds and that did seem to help. But I  have still broken slides.

I, met a guy who had changed out his Beretta recoil spring every 3000 rounds and had documented 40,000 rounds before his dust cover broke. My friend had a USP that he changed out the recoil spring on every 5000 rounds and had approximately 20000 before instructing at the Academy and competition and afterwards another 20000 through it and we still use it for dry fire training. The only part that ever broke in it was the trigger spring one time. That gun was issued in 1999 or 2000 and is still around.

I have seen parts break but usually after many rounds. It just bothers me that just as the P2000 .40 call trigger begins to "get nice or break in" that I  begin to worry because I  can bet on a slide breaking at the recoil lug under the barrel. My opinion again .40 call bad, 9mm good.

@jeffa

There is a lot of experience and impartial fairness in your posts, thank you for sharing it with us and giving us all an honest experienced review.

Well I took the plunge and ordered a P2000 9mm LEM. Hoping in 9mm it will break less stuff than has been listed in this thread!

Sweet. I want to add a V1 to the collection. 

CBP in general sucks at maintaining the P2000.
The recoil, flat and trigger return springs are never changed at the recommended intervals (usually not changed until something breaks).
You can't get away with that for long in .40 before stuff starts breaking.

As far as choking on the purple stuff... yea... everything chokes on that crap ammo.

I have one P2000 LEM 9mm with over 100k rounds through it with no parts breakage and the only malfunctions were ammo related.
I have another P2000 LEM 9mm that's approaching 45k rounds, again no issues.
My P2000SK LEM 9mm has 10k with no issues.
I replace the trigger return spring every 10k rounds, recoil, flat and elbow springs get replaced every 25k.
In .40 I'd change out the recoil spring every 10k at a minimum.

I wonder if we know the same guy.
I know a Agent who was a regular competitor, instructor at Artesia (around 2014) and was shooting a USP.
When he left Artesia he was headed up you way.
The guy you know didn't happen to try out for BORTAC and break a bone did he?
If so, it's a small world.

No, it isn't the same guy but it is a very small patrol, many of us on here are probably acquainted.  I started in Nogales and ran sector firearms for several years and had some input into various training and equipment throughout my career. I was/am pretty tight with the BORTAC guys in Tucson through training improvements and T&E of equipment. I am not BORTAC but respect them greatly as I do any special operations group for their sacrifices and brotherhood. Stay Safe brother.

RUMINT says ICE might be adopting the P320.

Does the purple stuff come in 9x19?

I am intrigued on adding to this discussion if this is crap ammo or not

Its WWB, but somehow worse and dirtier than wolf/tula and it looks like it was picked out of Barneys "leavings".

Yes, but it saves one whole penny a round... 

As far as I know a lot of effort (I am told) went into developing a practice round that is ball ammo without the excellent flash suppression that we carry in the field. It supposedly mimics very closely the duty ammo for qualification purposes. It is absolutely an attempt to save money because we "use to so much ammo". The problem is that qualification has been confused with proper and relevant training.  Qualification is not training and never will be, it is an attempt to quantify marksmanship ability to satisfy the legal establishment for standards testing. Think of it as the law enforcement version of no child left behind. As long as you pass the test you have a leg to stand on in a lawsuit. The purple ammo is inexpensive and fine for training, albeit very dirty, and we are lucky to have it vs nothing but in the end it is cheap ball ammo.

It is 180 grain (same as our duty ammo) and not as snappy as the 155 and easier on the guns which maybe means more longevity for the P2000.

Looks like it was only only available in either .40 S&W or .223 that was for a time available to the market.

I don't do 10mm lite and I'm not interested in the .223.

Just ordered a P2000 9mm V3 from CDNN, $519 and change shipped.  Have been looking to try out an HK polymer DA/SA for awhile now, and the price on these P2000s was hard to beat.

Damn. I paid $800 for mine a few years back. 

IIRC it's more like $0.10/round and when you're buying millions of rounds it means more trigger time for the same amount of money.

I've seen trigger bars and mainspring struts break.

The Feds don't pay all that much for ammo anyway, if it's saving $0.10 a round that's basically half the cost of duty ammo.  I used to pay the invoices for ICE and they got a cheaper rate on .40 JHP than I could on Tula/Wolf/Brown Bear 9mm ball.  This was as of 2014.

Trigger bars and locking blocks broke like they were made out of Sweet-Tarts on the Beretta.
CBP shoots a lot and the gear gets exposed to by far the worst environmental conditions outside of military deployment to the deserts of the ME.
Nothing is going to be 100%, the P2000 (and the Beretta for that matter) would hold up a LOT better if they'd stay on top of preventative maintenance.
A switch to 9mm would be even better.

The only time I've seen a mainspring strut bend or break was when the hammer was prevented from moving for some reason and the trigger was forcibly pressed to the rear.
You can bend them all day by holding your thumb on the hammer and forcing the trigger back (it takes a hard press, but you can actually feel it bending).
Where did the trigger bar break? I'm guessing the tab where it interfaces with the sear.

I've seen one magazine release that was broken. It was turned in with no explanation of how from another station, all kinds of trigger return springs, slide lug under the barrel (numerous) and nothing else. All of these items were absolutely catastrophic but they were normally very high round counts 10,000ish or a little more ......maybe less in a few instances.

I've seen more come to me in zip lock bags from curious agents that didn't know how to put them back together, and I saw a few that were melted from guys "drying them" in the oven, don't ask. It is better to ask forgiveness than permission. Sound familiar. This is the stuff I remember most. Pulling a pistol out of a lunch box in a sandwich bag is frigging classic.

I saw an agent who will forever remain unnamed qualify and attempt a reload with a 1911 magazine from their magazine pouch. That is a problem, not with the gun but it is a problem. But I digress.

I was also planning to buy a P2000 in .40 for carry, V3 or whatever SA/DA is.
Now that I've read through some of these threads I'm having second thoughts.
1. Why would the trigger return spring be failing? How would that be attributed to harsh recoil? Or would this also be an issue in the 9mm? LEM trigger issue only?
2. What exactly is the slide lug that's failing? The bottom front part of the slide where the recoil spring/guide rod assembly fits into?
3. Wondering if the USP Compact .40 suffers from the same issues. Seems like lots of common parts/similar design. But I keep hearing the USP is built like tank. Was the high round count USP mentioned above a Compact?
4. For the armorers and the guys commenting who have experience with the specific P2000 (.40 ) failures, do you think it was the ammo (155gr), poor maintenance, user abuse (or combination of all) or just a bad design that can't handle the .40?

For what its worth, I've never had one issue out of my .40 USP Compact. Owned it since 2008.

Then again, I have never had one issue with my P2000 9mm either. Or pretty much any of my other HKs, besides a few FTFs with my newer VP9 with the stiffer spring during break in. 

1. Any spring can wear out or break. When you shoot thousands of rounds a TRS can wear, weaken and break doesn't matter which gun it is.

2. Yes

3. P2000 is thinner than on the USP the overall slide is much thinner.

4. All of the above. Many agents never put more than a few hundred rounds per year through their guns and over 10 years may only have 3000 rounds through the gun. Many others can shoot 3,000 rounds or more per year, not hard to do. As an operator, instructor, competitor or motivated guy or gal on the job 3,000 is easy.

Continued:

High usage and low maintenance  will wear the gun out. General maintenance items such as TRS,  recoil spring assembly, extractor, roll pins, sights, etc, need to be inspected continually and then many items replace yearly for lower round count users and more often for higher round count users. I haven't seen as many problems when the recoil spring assembly was replaced every 3,000 rounds except for the TRS. These are my personal experiences. People who read avid shooters for whatever reason tend to maintain their firearms fairly well. Those that think of their firearm as just another tool,like a wrench, will be lucky if they never see a problem but then again they probably don't shoot enough to matter. Don't forget you can look at the gun and parts and think they are good but not know that something you cannot see within the high wear parts are bad. That is why our guns are considered 10,000 round guns and then are supposed to be traded out for new ones. Problem is not everyone tracks their rounds through the gun like they should, me included, or they like the way a high round trigger feels after the parts wear in or some guys just want to see how many rounds they can put through it before it breaks.

Continued:
I have taken apart one P2000 that was poorly maintained very dirty and never dried out after being wet. It stopped working on the range and upon tearing it apart found the firing pin gummed up with dirt, grime, fuzz and rust. Unfortunately many of these people are out there. I've seen a gun with the same snap caps it had in it from training three months earlier because it was never used or cleaned between qualifications, yes these people are out there.

The P2000 is a good gun, you can see the various amount of good, bad and in between experiences being told in this thread. We have probably had 50,000 (it is actually many more than this) of them revolve through the field and waiting in supply for the past 15 years. I just think the 9mm is much more forgiving on the P2000 platform. I would like to see what happens to any other manufacturers gun after that many years with that many rounds. I know that these guns are out there I just don't have the personal experience. The Berettas we had, had more problems over a shorter period of time. The quantity of USPs  were not with us for as many years as the P2000 but there are many still out there in off duty hands and I have never heard of any of the frame breakage problems and my personal USP hasn't had this problem.