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Posted: 1/18/2016 3:06:48 PM EDT
I just watched the MAC torture test of the VP9; and it was a little bit painful to say the least. The test was not very difficult, yet the pistol had a few parts break off, and had an alarming amount of malfunctions. Has H&K quit designing good and innovative products? I was very surprised as H&K makes the HK45 and USP, two very thoroughly tested and ultra reliable pistols. Guess I will continue to regard the USP as H&K's best pistol.
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He absolutely abused that pistol when he was chucking it at the log & plate. I'm not terribly surprised the mag release broke...
BUT The trigger failing due to the water and minor grit is a problem for certain. |
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Mine work great. Always have and always will. I will never understand where some people think they have become the Guru's of gun quality.
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This video has had the following effect on me: If I ever join the Marines or become a NSW operator, and I have to bring my own personal VP9 into some kind of amphibious assault, I will apply duct tape to the hole in the back of the slide that houses the cocked striker indicator. I will also refrain from throwing my VP9 at stuff.
Seriously, these "torture tests" are entertaining and I guess it's cool finding out the limits of different designs. But nothing that happened to that gun is ever going to happen to us. Hell I carry a 1911 half the time and sand and gravel will lock that gun up faster than you can say potato. My CCW guns have to put up with lint and deodorant and that's about it. |
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Mine work great. Always have and always will. I will never understand where some people think they have become the Guru's of gun quality. View Quote I hope I didn't come across as a know-it-all. The video just surprised me as I am used to seeing H&K's offerings as some of the most, if not the most, reliable pistols on the market. I personally would trust the VP9 as a HD pistol or range gun; but it is not something I would even compare to the USP and HK45 in terms of reliability. Hopefully I cleared things up. |
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Wow. The dude is seriously angry from the get go. I am disappointed in MAC and I usually like his videos. Downright shitty test when it comes to throwing it at things. His work here is comparable to the state of California's infamous "drop it until it breaks and then fail it drop test."
-He doesn't know caused the malfunction for certain. "water in the striker channel..." I wish we all had x ray vision. I have shot new USP and USP/c variants that were occasionally unreliable out of the box. It takes about 1000 rounds through a polymer pistol before it is fully reliable and occasionally there is some minor plastic trimming required as all the parts break in. Not all the guns are like that, but usually one in out of a bunch. It would be useful to figure out what failed rather than say "my fingers are cold" and then dunk it in water some more. -the guy threw it against a sharp steel edge of a target and some frozen wood. Yes, things are going to break. A USP would likely have issues with it, although the USP doesn't have as many ergonomic plastic bits compared to the new P series. I don't have a VP9 and don't want one, but i am not impressed by MAC's testing in this video. I hope get goes and gets his Makarov back out and doesn't do any more testing like this to nice handguns that didn't do anything wrong. |
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Quoted: I just watched the MAC torture test of the VP9; and it was a little bit painful to say the least. The test was not very difficult, yet the pistol had a few parts break off, and had an alarming amount of malfunctions. Has H&K quit designing good and innovative products? I was very surprised as H&K makes the HK45 and USP, two very thoroughly tested and ultra reliable pistols. Guess I will continue to regard the USP as H&K's best pistol. View Quote |
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My Glock 23 must be defective as well since it hasn't had a KB failure. I seen that on a YouTube video once. My Taurus 24/7 OSS must be defective as I can shake it and drop it and it doesn't discharge. I seen that on a video too. See the point I'm trying to make here? When you go by one video of a sample of one, anything and everything has to be suspect. MACs test was unscientific and VERY limited with a sample of one pistol. Fluke, lemon, bad day? You can't make a good judgment based on such a test. In the mean time, I'm going to put my faith in my VP9 and not worry about it.
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probably because its a 600$ pistol from HK, they cut some corners for sure. the vp series was aimed at people who were too cheap to buy an hk. IMO the torture test is unrealistic at best, i am tired of hearing about the vp9. dont like them? think theyre unreliable? dont buy one, i didnt.
as for hk reliability, i ahve no problem with my 2 usp's, and my friends p30 is tickign along fine, my advice? buy a real hk, enjoy |
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I see a lot of people posting the test is/was unrealistic...
Obviously the throwing is not a realistic test, but the dropping in water absolutely IS. The fact is, many striker fired pistols have a problem with water in the striker channel causing light primer strikes on the first try after immersion. The problem MAC encountered with the VP9 was something additional and it would have been nice if he'd investigated it further. Regardless, the fact remains, his particular pistol failed this test. It's not a statistically significant quantity, but it doesn't completely invalidate the test. |
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One part of the testing, in my opinion, needs some changing. Anytime you drop your firearm in some type of substance-mud, ice, etc., it is always good practice,( especially in a practice situation), to check for any obstructions in the barrel, otherwise -kaboom. If something worked it's way into the barrel, you could be in for a bad surprise. I wonder how many rounds he had through the gun prior to testing. Not that it would be an excuse, but after a few thousand rounds, most manufacturers state to swap/change out springs.The open channel in the back, (striker/visual aid), seems it could be an issue. I have seen many firearms fail in one way or another over the years, but you can't lump them altogether from one example. I have seen Glocks break and have ammo. issues, but I still love mine. It was entertaining to watch but if you see one video of any handgun and it fails, does not mean they all are junk.
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Not this crap again....
OP, if you took the actual time to look in here, meaning the HK forum, you would have found this topic already discussed with members replicating the test minus the idiocy that MAC did, and would have found that other VP9's just plain and simple work, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that his was a defective one. So no, you will not die carrying a VP9. |
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My Glock 23 must be defective as well since it hasn't had a KB failure. I seen that on a YouTube video once. My Taurus 24/7 OSS must be defective as I can shake it and drop it and it doesn't discharge. I seen that on a video too. See the point I'm trying to make here? When you go by one video of a sample of one, anything and everything has to be suspect. MACs test was unscientific and VERY limited with a sample of one pistol. Fluke, lemon, bad day? You can't make a good judgment based on such a test. In the mean time, I'm going to put my faith in my VP9 and not worry about it. View Quote Mine have too, oh well! |
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I was quite skeptical of the VP9 when introduced, as I am for most brand new designs until I fired one. The grip with the right combination of panels is perfect, it has the same sight radius as the P30L, and a lower bore axis than anything else H&K has on the market. Like all of them they are reliable, smooth shooting, and quite accurate.
Some guy throwing it around and dunking it in mud puddles means nothing to me. The right sized granules in mud can tie up most any gun. It's pretty unscientific as it's not really repeatable. |
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If you look on MAC's FB page he brings the test up again and in that a few people call him out on it. He goes on to claim there are other tests showing the same failures, but does not post a link to them. He also claims in the video that his pistol choked when suppressed and again claims others on his FB did the same thing.
We understand the test was extreme , but I think a true person testing and seeing a failure would pursue the question as to "why" the gun did this. I have not seen any follow up to MAC's test claiming here is the reason why and how HK might solve. Also, didnt his testing include some questionable ammo? |
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If you look on MAC's FB page he brings the test up again and in that a few people call him out on it. He goes on to claim there are other tests showing the same failures, but does not post a link to them. He also claims in the video that his pistol choked when suppressed and again claims others on his FB did the same thing. We understand the test was extreme , but I think a true person testing and seeing a failure would pursue the question as to "why" the gun did this. I have not seen any follow up to MAC's test claiming here is the reason why and how HK might solve. Also, didnt his testing include some questionable ammo? View Quote |
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probably because its a 600$ pistol from HK, they cut some corners for sure. the vp series was aimed at people who were too cheap to buy an hk. IMO the torture test is unrealistic at best, i am tired of hearing about the vp9. dont like them? think theyre unreliable? dont buy one, i didnt. as for hk reliability, i ahve no problem with my 2 usp's, and my friends p30 is tickign along fine, my advice? buy a real hk, enjoy View Quote |
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GSL, not to get off topic and I think the dead horse has been beat enough, how do you compare your P30L to the VP9? Are the grips the same? I have a VP9 now and like it but I prefer a da/sa type pistol and am looking at the P30 line.
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GSL, not to get off topic and I think the dead horse has been beat enough, how do you compare your P30L to the VP9? Are the grips the same? I have a VP9 now and like it but I prefer a da/sa type pistol and am looking at the P30 line. View Quote |
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Quoted: GSL, not to get off topic and I think the dead horse has been beat enough, how do you compare your P30L to the VP9? Are the grips the same? I have a VP9 now and like it but I prefer a da/sa type pistol and am looking at the P30 line. View Quote |
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GSL, not to get off topic and I think the dead horse has been beat enough, how do you compare your P30L to the VP9? Are the grips the same? I have a VP9 now and like it but I prefer a da/sa type pistol and am looking at the P30 line. View Quote View Quote I've tried all the back straps and have the talon grip on my P30L. None of them feel as good as a VP9 out of the box. That said, I won't be selling my P30L. Take delivery of my VP9 next week. Only lead down range and on target will it prove its worth. |
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I fired another 100 rounds through my vp9 today, bringing the total to 750. Not a single malfunction. I don't think someone should dismiss a model completely based on 1 youtube video. ( I happen to like MAC's channel, and am subscribed).
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That video is a complete joke. Doesn't match any sort of realistic scenario in normal settings or combat.
Anybody taking that test seriously as a knock on HKs is not thinking. |
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I see a lot of people posting the test is/was unrealistic... Obviously the throwing is not a realistic test, but the dropping in water absolutely IS. The fact is, many striker fired pistols have a problem with water in the striker channel causing light primer strikes on the first try after immersion. The problem MAC encountered with the VP9 was something additional and it would have been nice if he'd investigated it further. Regardless, the fact remains, his particular pistol failed this test. It's not a statistically significant quantity, but it doesn't completely invalidate the test. View Quote Nope, the VP9 works just fine and passes the "dropped in water" test. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5SMir0VKdo[/youtube] |
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Supposedly something was wrong with his particular pistol.
I wouldn't put a lot of stock in MOST of the extreme torture tests out there, but they are interesting to watch. |
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Maybe I used too strong of a word.
It's all been said before and rehashed over and over. I guess it's obvious which camp I'm in. |
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Here is my thread on HKPro on my own tests. A little more scientific than MACs, plus with multiple VP9s, and a VP40.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/229023-hk-vp9-40-usp-water-clay-mud-tests-update-page-6-retest.html |
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I'm 1100 rounds into mine without a single failure of any kind- AT ALL.
200 rounds WWB 200 rounds Herters Brass cased 650 rounds Tulammo steel case 50 rounds Herters aluminum case polymer jacket The first 900 rounds were without cleaning at all (WWB, Herters brass, and Tulammo). Two separate range trips in those 900 rounds I shot a couple magazines to warm it up, then buried it in snow and let it freeze up again (loaded). Pulled it out of the snow and kept going. No issues. The last range trip before I cleaned it I threw it into a slushy snow/mud mix. No issues at all. I've never had a pistol chew through steel case like this without a SINGLE failure. Within 20 rounds my M&P had a FTE with the Tulammo. My Springfield 1911 had break-in hiccups in the first 200 rounds, and still occasionally stovepipes. The only thing that's happened is my thumb riding the slide release, keeping the slide from locking open on an empty magazine. I've changed my grip and haven't had it happen in several hundred rounds. I watched the MAC video right before I bought mine and was a little leery, but the gun has proven itself to me 100%. Most comfortable polymer striker gun I've handled. |
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Here is my thread on HKPro on my own tests. A little more scientific than MACs, plus with multiple VP9s, and a VP40. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/229023-hk-vp9-40-usp-water-clay-mud-tests-update-page-6-retest.html View Quote Good testing... Glad you didn't throw it. haha. |
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For those who run suppressors, or find the the VP9 easy to be put out of battery, get the VP40 spring from HK parts and it will run just fine.
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I don't know why more people aren't getting this. If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction. Everyone was in disbelief that they could get an HK pistol for $600, but obviously something has to give in order to allow that price point. You get what you pay for.
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I don't know why more people aren't getting this. If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction. Everyone was in disbelief that they could get an HK pistol for $600, but obviously something has to give in order to allow that price point. You get what you pay for. View Quote I don't believe that is the case. |
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I don't know why more people aren't getting this. If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction. Everyone was in disbelief that they could get an HK pistol for $600, but obviously something has to give in order to allow that price point. You get what you pay for. I don't believe that is the case. |
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I don't know why more people aren't getting this. If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction. Everyone was in disbelief that they could get an HK pistol for $600, but obviously something has to give in order to allow that price point. You get what you pay for. View Quote I own both and disagree. |
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I too have both and the quality seems the same.
Both pistols work well and I haven't had to fix them by throwing them against wood or steel. |
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If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction View Quote I don't believe HK would compromise quality. I think striker fired guns are less expensive to produce. |
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I don't know why more people aren't getting this. If you hold a VP9, I have one, and a P30, also own one, they are of obviously different standards in manufacturing/construction. Everyone was in disbelief that they could get an HK pistol for $600, but obviously something has to give in order to allow that price point. You get what you pay for. View Quote I've owned both and disagree. The only difference in quality I noticed was the VP9's slide had a few more machining marks, which does not affect function at all. I've had more malfunctions in my P30L than my VP9. |
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I have shot my buddies P30V3 along with my VP9 and they both felt and looked similar in construction quality. Now of course I have NOT sat there and inspected it in great detail or anything, but no felt or observed difference. Now the trigger for the P30
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and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That video is a complete joke. Doesn't match any sort of realistic scenario in normal settings or combat. Anybody taking that test seriously as a knock on HKs is not thinking. and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. This site is a joke when it comes to being fair and balanced with the information uptake. If the information is harmful, it gets conveniently ignored. If the information happens for one time to the competition while there are bunches of videos showing glocks failing, we show teeth and try and hit for the jugular. Fucking pathetic. |
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and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That video is a complete joke. Doesn't match any sort of realistic scenario in normal settings or combat. Anybody taking that test seriously as a knock on HKs is not thinking. and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. Because the tests were so controlled and accurate. Are you Fing kidding me? |
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Because the tests were so controlled and accurate. Are you Fing kidding me? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That video is a complete joke. Doesn't match any sort of realistic scenario in normal settings or combat. Anybody taking that test seriously as a knock on HKs is not thinking. and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. Because the tests were so controlled and accurate. Are you Fing kidding me? The Canik test wasn't controlled...it passed. |
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Love my HK 45 family ( USP, MK23 ) but CZ is the gun to have in 9mm.
You can throw the CZ against a log and it will break the log,a VP9 and still work...... |
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Love my HK 45 family ( USP, MK23 ) but CZ is the gun to have in 9mm. You can throw the CZ against a log and it will break the log,a VP9 and still work...... View Quote MAC was disingenuous from the get go.His words were in GD that he proved to the world that both the American and the VP9 was worthless. He ignored it when it's been brought up to him that other people had done the water tests and it still worked and he ran away from addressing it. His integrity to me is shot. Unsubscribed and on ignore. Love how anyone that has a competing gun suddenly has to be shown that it's a POS. As if tossing at logs is an actual thing to be concerned about... |
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I can't remember which other MAC video it was, but there is another one where he says the reason he started throwing the VP9 against the targets and the logs, was he had already done the water tests several times, it failed each time, and he was very frustrated and at that point had pretty much given up on it. That is not on the original video.
When I first watched the video I thought the same thing too. What in the world is this guy doing???? I had a VP9 but sold it in August last year. I had no reliability issues with it but I did experience a lot of trigger slap with the gun. I doing know if it was coming from the trigger or the mag release. After 2-300 rounds it really started to hurt to shoot. Not fun to shoot meant it had to go, plus that was the time mags were almost impossible to find. Replaced it with an SP-01. |
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I can easily find five tests of arf's precious failing on google, but haters gonna hate, right? This site is a joke when it comes to being fair and balanced with the information uptake. If the information is harmful, it gets conveniently ignored. If the information happens for one time to the competition while there are bunches of videos showing glocks failing, we show teeth and try and hit for the jugular. Fucking pathetic. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That video is a complete joke. Doesn't match any sort of realistic scenario in normal settings or combat. Anybody taking that test seriously as a knock on HKs is not thinking. and yet other pistols have passed the same tests. This site is a joke when it comes to being fair and balanced with the information uptake. If the information is harmful, it gets conveniently ignored. If the information happens for one time to the competition while there are bunches of videos showing glocks failing, we show teeth and try and hit for the jugular. Fucking pathetic. This is why I didn't post my findings and report on here. The sheer hate for HK (mostly on GD) is mind boggling. I experienced some of the same problems as MAC when I dropped it in my bucket of mud (almost same consistency, if not worse, than the creek MAC put it in). Mine, however, would release the striker, but the mud in the firing pin channel slowed the pin that it left a small dimple on the primer, but no bang. If MAC would have rinsed the pistol in the creek without dropping it into the mud, he might have got it to fire (I did). As for the dead trigger, I suspect it was the pistol not being in battery. The main spring on the VP series is weak and needs a few more coils. I placed my VP40 spring in my VP9 and it worked (not so much with the mud, but it was a little better). I'm still keeping my VPs as I do shoot very well with them, and new shooters love it. A few modifactions and upgrades are needed from HK (strong firing pin and recoil springs), and it should be good to go. I ran a retest with my M&P9. The M&P9 did fire after being dropped in the silty mud, but as it progressed, it got worse. Action slowed down, and the trigger went from 5 pounds to what felt like 30. Even after cleaning it, sonic, gun scrubber and air hose, when shooting the M&P9, the trigger still gets heavier over use. My VPs never lost their trigger pull weight! Still, when SHTF, or just my ever day carrier gun right now, it is still my USP9. These test make me more of a firm believer of hammer fired guns. After the cleaning of all my pistols, the VPs still have a little grit, the M&P pull weight gets worse, but my USP is grit free and still runs like a sewing machine. |
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