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Posted: 5/24/2015 12:04:58 AM EDT
My dad has given me his 1911 that appears to have been made in 1914 (S/n 984xx). His dad bought it for him in the early 1950's when he was a newly commissioned 2LT in the Army. Some time in the late 50's he had his unit armorer convert it to an A1 and he doesn't have the original parts. I have two questions, what would be the best source for parts to convert it back to its original configuration? Also, I have shot a couple of magazines through it and it worked flawlessly, but since it's old what springs should I change just as maintenance? No telling the history of this pistol prior to my dad getting it (bought in a pawn shop in Boise, Idaho) but my dad carried it in Lebanon, two tours in Vietnam, and just about every field exercise up to the point he retired in 1983 as a COL. It is perhaps my most prized possession!

Link Posted: 5/24/2015 12:39:53 AM EDT
[#1]



Quoted:




My dad has given me his 1911 that appears to have been made in 1914 (S/n 984xx). His dad bought it for him in the early 1950's when he was a newly commissioned 2LT in the Army. Some time in the late 50's he had his unit armorer convert it to an A1 and he doesn't have the original parts. I have two questions, what would be the best source for parts to convert it back to its original configuration? Also, I have shot a couple of magazines through it and it worked flawlessly, but since it's old what springs should I change just as maintenance? No telling the history of this pistol prior to my dad getting it (bought in a pawn shop in Boise, Idaho) but my dad carried it in Lebanon, two tours in Vietnam, and just about every field exercise up to the point he retired in 1983 as a COL. It is perhaps my most prized possession!
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/levanger/20150403_194735.jpg
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If you were to change absolutely nothing, it'd still be a priceless heirloom

















Cruise ebay, and/or enough gun and militaria shows long enough and you may be able to find an original long trigger assembly, and a flat mainspring housing, and then you'd be done.










You can get a conventional 16lb recoil spring, and it comes a new mainspring and firing pin spring included, from here: http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1

















Here's my Model of 1911 from May '18, along with my Remington Rand M1911A1, for comparison:















 
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 2:04:34 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

 

If you were to change absolutely nothing, it'd still be a priceless heirloom




Cruise ebay, and/or enough gun and militaria shows long enough and you may be able to find an original long trigger assembly, and a flat mainspring housing, and then you'd be done.


You can get a conventional 16lb recoil spring, and it comes a new mainspring and firing pin spring included, from here: http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1




Here's my Model of 1911 from May '18, along with my Remington Rand M1911A1, for comparison:


https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/17400_10205244235000025_6282453153546293466_n.jpg?oh=315129024d2573f313cb8de4425c994b&oe=55CCDB6F
 
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Quoted:
My dad has given me his 1911 that appears to have been made in 1914 (S/n 984xx). His dad bought it for him in the early 1950's when he was a newly commissioned 2LT in the Army. Some time in the late 50's he had his unit armorer convert it to an A1 and he doesn't have the original parts. I have two questions, what would be the best source for parts to convert it back to its original configuration? Also, I have shot a couple of magazines through it and it worked flawlessly, but since it's old what springs should I change just as maintenance? No telling the history of this pistol prior to my dad getting it (bought in a pawn shop in Boise, Idaho) but my dad carried it in Lebanon, two tours in Vietnam, and just about every field exercise up to the point he retired in 1983 as a COL. It is perhaps my most prized possession!

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/levanger/20150403_194735.jpg

 

If you were to change absolutely nothing, it'd still be a priceless heirloom




Cruise ebay, and/or enough gun and militaria shows long enough and you may be able to find an original long trigger assembly, and a flat mainspring housing, and then you'd be done.


You can get a conventional 16lb recoil spring, and it comes a new mainspring and firing pin spring included, from here: http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1




Here's my Model of 1911 from May '18, along with my Remington Rand M1911A1, for comparison:


https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/17400_10205244235000025_6282453153546293466_n.jpg?oh=315129024d2573f313cb8de4425c994b&oe=55CCDB6F
 

Thanks for the reply; the pistol is indeed a priceless heirloom. The pistol has never been a safe queen and will treated as such, it has killed at least one deer (long story) and perhaps even a man, dad has eluded to that but never elaborated. I'm going to order the "service kit" from  Wolff, a bushing to tighten it up, a set of period correct hand grips (for aesthetic purposes), trigger, mainspring housing, and trigger tang to put it back to its pre-A1 configuration. Looks like I will become a 1911 guy before it's over with. BTW, nice looking set you have there, they are truly a piece of art, which I can appreciate.
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 2:12:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Gunny, I have another question. Since you have both the 1911 and A1 versions do you prefer either one? Dad said he hated the straight 1911 version (and thus why he had it converted) and that it would "bite him" with the short tang, the trigger would or could draw blood. I know that this could all be a matter of technique and grip but what's your take?
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 2:16:48 AM EDT
[#4]

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Quoted:





Thanks for the reply; the pistol is indeed a priceless heirloom. The pistol has never been a safe queen and will treated as such, it has killed at least one deer (long story) and perhaps even a man, dad has eluded to that but never elaborated. I'm going to order the "service kit" from  Wolff, a bushing to tighten it up, a set of period correct hand grips (for aesthetic purposes), trigger, mainspring housing, and trigger tang to put it back to its pre-A1 configuration. Looks like I will become a 1911 guy before it's over with. BTW, nice looking set you have there, they are truly a piece of art, which I can appreciate.

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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

My dad has given me his 1911 that appears to have been made in 1914 (S/n 984xx). His dad bought it for him in the early 1950's when he was a newly commissioned 2LT in the Army. Some time in the late 50's he had his unit armorer convert it to an A1 and he doesn't have the original parts. I have two questions, what would be the best source for parts to convert it back to its original configuration? Also, I have shot a couple of magazines through it and it worked flawlessly, but since it's old what springs should I change just as maintenance? No telling the history of this pistol prior to my dad getting it (bought in a pawn shop in Boise, Idaho) but my dad carried it in Lebanon, two tours in Vietnam, and just about every field exercise up to the point he retired in 1983 as a COL. It is perhaps my most prized possession!



http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj149/levanger/20150403_194735.jpg


 



If you were to change absolutely nothing, it'd still be a priceless heirloom
Cruise ebay, and/or enough gun and militaria shows long enough and you may be able to find an original long trigger assembly, and a flat mainspring housing, and then you'd be done.





You can get a conventional 16lb recoil spring, and it comes a new mainspring and firing pin spring included, from here: http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1
Here's my Model of 1911 from May '18, along with my Remington Rand M1911A1, for comparison:





https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/17400_10205244235000025_6282453153546293466_n.jpg?oh=315129024d2573f313cb8de4425c994b&oe=55CCDB6F

 


Thanks for the reply; the pistol is indeed a priceless heirloom. The pistol has never been a safe queen and will treated as such, it has killed at least one deer (long story) and perhaps even a man, dad has eluded to that but never elaborated. I'm going to order the "service kit" from  Wolff, a bushing to tighten it up, a set of period correct hand grips (for aesthetic purposes), trigger, mainspring housing, and trigger tang to put it back to its pre-A1 configuration. Looks like I will become a 1911 guy before it's over with. BTW, nice looking set you have there, they are truly a piece of art, which I can appreciate.





 



If I knew the man that wore them down, I'd stick with the well-worn and -storied grips.




By "trigger tang", do you mean the grip safety's tang? (under the correct hammer, btw)




Judging by the profile I see, it is an A1, but in changing it, you may find that you need to get another thumb safety fitted too.
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 2:30:01 AM EDT
[#5]


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Quoted:



Gunny, I have another question. Since you have both the 1911 and A1 versions do you prefer either one? Dad said he hated the straight 1911 version (and thus why he had it converted) and that it would "bite him" with the short tang, the trigger would or could draw blood. I know that this could all be a matter of technique and grip but what's your take?
View Quote





 





The bite your Dad is describing sounds more like "hammer bite", where the hammer comes back, and pinches any part of the web between your thumb and index finger that is above the grip safety's tang. Plenty of people pay good money to replace either  a 1911 or M1911A1 grip safety because both are prone to allowing such an injury.







Since you don't want an aftermarket beavertail grip safety (only because it isn't correct for the provenance of a martial Model of 1911), I'd leave what you have there, because it is marginally better protection than the original (plus you will likely incur some additional cost in finding an original thumb safety, to have it fitted to work properly with the grip safety).












I prefer my carry guns with a short trigger assembly, WWI pattern thumb safety, Colt rat tail grip safety, and a flat mainspring housing.










 
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 11:48:28 AM EDT
[#6]
Replacing all the springs most importantly the recoil spring is a good idea
Keep in mind the pre ww2 1911's did not get heat treated and some say it is best to limit shooting them due to this.
Too bad someone ( probably long before your father ) ground the property mark off the frame.
While a priceless family heirloom keep in mind collector value is minimal so your best course of action is to keep a good history of the gun with it and hand it down to someone else after you are gone
I would shoot a box or two of light target loads out of it once or twice a year minimal but not zero risk for frame damage
And keep it for sentimental reasons in the family forever
Link Posted: 5/24/2015 11:52:49 AM EDT
[#7]
IM Sent.
Link Posted: 5/25/2015 6:20:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Replacing all the springs most importantly the recoil spring is a good idea
Keep in mind the pre ww2 1911's did not get heat treated and some say it is best to limit shooting them due to this.
Too bad someone ( probably long before your father ) ground the property mark off the frame.
While a priceless family heirloom keep in mind collector value is minimal so your best course of action is to keep a good history of the gun with it and hand it down to someone else after you are gone
I would shoot a box or two of light target loads out of it once or twice a year minimal but not zero risk for frame damage
And keep it for sentimental reasons in the family forever
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Yeah, all the US markings are gone, whoever did it did a good job. There is absolutely no grind marks and the bluing matches perfectly. Dad thought it was commercial version since it lacked the property markings but after researching and reading I came to the same conclusion, somebody took them off. I'm not concerned with the collector value, it will never be sold and will stay in the family. I didn't know about the heat treat issue, kind of like the early Springfield 1903's. Thanks for the info!
Link Posted: 5/25/2015 11:15:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Heirloom guns shouldn't be changed one bit in my opinion, unless broken (in that situation, save the broken piece).  

New springs would fit that scenario.
Link Posted: 5/26/2015 12:59:24 PM EDT
[#10]
For some strange reason there are a ton of former military 1911's ( not a1's) with the property marks removed very professionally. I often wonder if some surplus arms company in the 1920's or 30's bought a bunch and was directed to ( or decided to ) remove the property marks before sale.
I myself have not personally seen an old 1911 slide or frame cracked but know it can happen due to the lack of heat treat ( the 1911's were "soft" while the 1903's it was an issue with too hard and brittle) and it is a judgement call on shooting them. I say make up some light loads and go for it some avoid it all together.
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 10:23:15 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
For some strange reason there are a ton of former military 1911's ( not a1's) with the property marks removed very professionally. I often wonder if some surplus arms company in the 1920's or 30's bought a bunch and was directed to ( or decided to ) remove the property marks before sale.
I myself have not personally seen an old 1911 slide or frame cracked but know it can happen due to the lack of heat treat ( the 1911's were "soft" while the 1903's it was an issue with too hard and brittle) and it is a judgement call on shooting them. I say make up some light loads and go for it some avoid it all together.
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The rumor way back when was the possessing a firearms with military property stamps was illegal.  Nonsense of course but it was widely believed.
Link Posted: 5/27/2015 10:54:53 AM EDT
[#12]
During the Gangster era (the 1920s thru 30s during Prohibition) it was a federal felony to have a pistol stolen from the US Government (they may have been WW1 bring-backs but they definitely hadn't been surplused).

I'd personally just change out the springs on the pistol to new and shoot it as-is.

If you want to bring it back to 1914 factory-spec I'd look at parts from Cylinder and Slide and Turnbull.

Family heirlooms have inestimable personal value.  You have an awesome pistol.

This is my 1920 which started out as a bare frame.  The slide is a 1948 Colt hard slide and the barrel started new as a 1985 IMI GI replacement (parkerized outside, chrome-lined).

Quoted:
Mix-master FrankenColt built from a stripped 1920 Government Model frame and a 1948 hard slide stamped "COLT Automatic Calibre .45".  

I know it's more A1 than vintage 1911.  Not a GI gun so it's not an arsenal re-build.

Finish is worn, pitted, and re-parkerized but she's a solid shooter rather than safe queen.  Frame bluing is original.


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Link Posted: 9/24/2015 4:52:01 PM EDT
[#13]
That's one hell of an heirloom just like it sits, and I'd think hard about making any permanent changes to it. Swapping the springs and maybe the grips is about as far as I'd go with it, personally, because of the story behind how the piece came to be the way it is. Pistols like the one you have are fascinating to me because they're obviously "working guns," and that makes them far more interesting than sterile, untouched collector pieces.

Do you have the holster or any part of the carry rig he used with it, or just the pistol?
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