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Posted: 6/24/2014 2:16:01 PM EDT
Anyone date these and give me a fair price on it?  Google searches turn up waltherforums.com threads, but I cannot view charts w/o signing up for that forum, not wanting to sign up for additional forums for a chart.

Seller says, the following is on it:

Carl Walther
Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do.
Made in Germany
#349203
Model PP Cal. 7.65mm
Eagle Symbol / N Below
Antler Symbol
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 2:36:22 PM EDT
[#1]
btt. Any info at all on this would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 11:32:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Mfg 1964- 65 according to what I found. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 10:18:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Anyone date these and give me a fair price on it?  Google searches turn up waltherforums.com threads, but I cannot view charts w/o signing up for that forum, not wanting to sign up for additional forums for a chart.

Seller says, the following is on it:

Carl Walther
Waffenfabrik Ulm/Do.
Made in Germany
#349203
Model PP Cal. 7.65mm
Eagle Symbol / N Below
Antler Symbol
View Quote


A PP in 7.65mm Browning/.32 ACP with the serial number  349,203 would have been made about 1965per this chart:



Walther did not make any pistols in Germany after WW until about 1960, and even after that they didn't actually "make" the PP series pistols in Germany until 1986.

During WWII they moved to tooling west to avoid the advancing Soviets and after the war they were prohibited from making small arms until about 1960.   During that post war period they entered into an agreement with Manuhrin to make the PP and PPK on Walther tooling and then sell them under license.   The quality on these pistols was considered to be excellent.    After 1960, Manuhrin continued to make the PP series pistols, but started shipping completed and finished frames and partially completed (milled but left blank, in the white and un-heat treated) slides to Germany for completion by Walther.  Walther then roll marked the slides, heat treated and blued them.   While they were forged and milled by Manuhrin, since they were roll marked, finished and inspected in West Germany, West German law allowed them to be marked and sold as "Made in West Germany".   Walther continued this practice until 1986, when they finally started making complete pistols in Ulm West Germany.

The Manuhrin pistols generally had a better finish as the blue on the slides and frames were done with the same process and matched better than the Walther assembled/completed pistols, although some people feel the Walther slides were polished to a slightly glassier finish.  Either way the 60's era PPs are very well made pistols.  

So what you have is a 1965 or so vintage Manuhrin made, Walther assembled, West German Proof marked PP.

----

Value depends on condition, and it varies a lot.

I bought this one recently (with original grips that I took off, as they are prone to cracking) for $350.   It's in about 98% condition with just a bit (1/8"x1/8")of holster wear near the muzzle (the other white spots are just shine from reflected light).


 

This one is in equally good condition (just a bit of light pitting on the rear of the slide on one side) and while I traded for it, the asking price was $600 and it was not over priced (the other one was just a really good deal).




Consequently, in excellent condition, they'll go for around $500-$600, but you can still find them now and then in pawn shops and on GB for $350-$400, which creates a pretty broad range for value.

In good or very good condition, a 7.65mm 60's PP is probably a $300-$400 pistol.  Sellers like to charge more for the German stamped pistols, but they are no better than the Manuhrin marked pistols, and as I've described they all got made on the same tooling and on the same forgings.    

----

They are very accurate pistols (for a short barreled defensive pistol) and you can expect an inch to an inch and a half 8 shot group at 15 yards with good ammo.  The DA trigger pull tend to be heavy, and that's just an artifact of the original 1929/1931 design of the PP and PPK, and there is not much you can do about it.  However the single action trigger pull tends to be good, and you quickly adapt to the heavier DA pull to where you hardly notice it.  

----

.32 ACP is one of the few calibers that seemed to never entirely disappear during the last shortage and it seems to perform about a well as .380 in terms of effectiveness for a self defense pistol.  It has the same velocity with a smaller diameter and less weight, but penetration is almost identical to the .380 ACP.  If you use a hollow point be sure it's a 60 gr XTP in one of the 3 or 4 loadings that produce around 1000-1050 for as those are the only loads that will produce 12" of penetration with consistent expansion.
Link Posted: 7/8/2014 1:59:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Sellers like to charge more for the German stamped pistols... *snip*
View Quote


Do you mean specifically the "Made in Germany" portion or the Eagle/Antler symbols?
Link Posted: 8/5/2014 4:53:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Interesting on the PPK history. I have a Walther PPK .380 made in 1967. Wondering what its worth?
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