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BlitzPig
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Posted: 5/14/2009 8:18:05 PM
[Last Edit: 5/14/2009 8:29:12 PM by BlitzPig]
First let me say I don't want this to turn into a 1911 vs. Glock thing. It is not my point.

I do however own two weapons chambered in .45 ACP that follow the modern practice of having an "unsupported" chamber. (FNP-45 and Glock 36).

My question is, are there any factory loaded types that have a track record of safe use in these types of pistols? And, are there any manufacturers that produce brass that is stronger in the web area to offer greater safety margins in this type of weapon?

One would think that with the increasing number of handguns with unsupported chambers, that there is definitely a market for a "high strength" case .45 ACP.

Of course I realize that logical thinking and marketing are often mutually exclusive.
"Everything seems new to those too young to remember the old and too ignorant of history to have heard about it." - Thomas Sowell
ftldrben
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Posted: 5/14/2009 9:19:36 PM
True....

After the latest Glockbashing thread on the G21, I checked all my barrels and wasn't happy after doing so. But the gap wasn't nearly as big as the pics posted????

Even my HK USP Tactical didn't FULLY support the .45 from my POV.

At that time (1:AM) maybe I'd broken down too many pistols and was blinding myself looking at them with a 225 Lumen Surefire (the eyes they play tricks on you)...

I mean, some of my LWD barrels didn't seem to FULLY support the round, either.

Am I wrong?
"Is it 2012 yet?"
camaroracer016
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Posted: 5/14/2009 10:22:32 PM
What exactly does unsupported chamber mean??
foxherb53
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Posted: 5/14/2009 11:36:34 PM
[Last Edit: 5/14/2009 11:37:29 PM by foxherb53]
I've got a stock Colt Commander (unsupported chamber) with thousands of rounds through it.....I shoot only factory FMJ or Speer GDHP out of it ....never had a problem.
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Parrot32
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Posted: 5/15/2009 8:02:38 AM
Originally Posted By camaroracer016:
What exactly does unsupported chamber mean??


Unsupported is the portion of the case, usually the area of the feed ramp and/or extractor, where no steel comes in contact with the case.

It has only been a problem when 2 conditions conspire – it extends into the portion of the case where the wall is thin and there is substantial working pressure involved…

This is with the round fully chambered and not an ‘out of battery’ condition!

The 45 ACP does not operate at enough pressure for this to be a factor.

The 9mm is much greater and bears consideration.

The problem really surfaced when the 40 S&W came on the scene in early Glocks. The 40 S&W is running a pretty high chamber pressure and the early Glock barrels had a generous ramp cutout to accommodate feeding of this round.

Some cases failed. Glock then made modifications and it was corrected.

Keep in mind that the “problem” was limited to the 40 S&W round or at least it mostly occurred with that round…

The 10mm (even higher pressure) could not be offered on the same frame so a better feed ramp was made from the start.

But in the vast majority of incidents, it was the particular cartridge that was the problem. The failed round itself was an overpressure. An overpressure that exceeded the upper limits of SAMMI and the extra safety factor designed into the firearm!!!

But how much Overdesign do you need for the unwashed, uninformed stupid shooter??? If 150% isn’t enough would 200% be right? Maybe 300% overbuild?

Originally Posted By foxherb53:
I've got a stock Colt Commander (unsupported chamber) with thousands of rounds through it.....I shoot only factory FMJ or Speer GDHP out of it ....never had a problem.


Please explain – I have never seen any Colt that had an ‘unsupported chamber’?
BlitzPig
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Posted: 5/15/2009 1:11:06 PM
I am just curious as there is a report of a Glock 30 that Kaboomed with factory ammo.

My FNP-45 has over 700 trouble free rounds so far and indeed has a pretty aggressively unsupported chamber, ala Glock. My Glock 36 has around 500 rounds through it so far.

Interestingly my FNP-40 has a fully supported chamber, and functions with all HPs I've tried.
"Everything seems new to those too young to remember the old and too ignorant of history to have heard about it." - Thomas Sowell
Chris_1522
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Posted: 5/15/2009 10:11:52 PM
Originally Posted By BlitzPig:
First let me say I don't want this to turn into a 1911 vs. Glock thing. It is not my point.

I do however own two weapons chambered in .45 ACP that follow the modern practice of having an "unsupported" chamber. (FNP-45 and Glock 36).

My question is, are there any factory loaded types that have a track record of safe use in these types of pistols? And, are there any manufacturers that produce brass that is stronger in the web area to offer greater safety margins in this type of weapon?

One would think that with the increasing number of handguns with unsupported chambers, that there is definitely a market for a "high strength" case .45 ACP.

Of course I realize that logical thinking and marketing are often mutually exclusive.


All factory ammo is safe in both of those pistols.