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Posted: 8/9/2017 10:23:35 PM EDT
[#1]
That's what I carry becaus of the rebate deal a while back but if you want the best get something with a bonded jacket. I trust GS will do what I need them to do.
I can shoot/empty my mags occasionally and feel less guilty about it. They were cheap but also highly effective. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 10:24:29 PM EDT
[#2]
For 20 or so year old hollow point in the era of the Black Talons it is still good. Depends how much the newer ones are now compared to when it came out. If as cheap as plinking rounds I would shoot them. For defense probably better newer rounds out there now. Yet some will still say that Black Talons are the best rounds that will stop a threat. And yet we do not have them anymore cause the media went crazy because they were black yet they worked perfectly as designed. They stopped the threat with trauma which is what they were designed to do. Yet those evil talons were why they had to drop the name.
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Posted: 8/9/2017 10:40:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Good basic HP
Are there more sophisticated HPs with a high expansion rate - yes. But it's the 9 vs 45 argument Is a 9mm that expands 98% that much better in gel than one that says its 90%??? Any decent HP is going to be better than FMJ in 9mm. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:33:24 AM EDT
[#4]
The 147gr is on the list https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId759557
They seem to do well on youtube tests |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:41:12 AM EDT
[#5]
They are good rounds, I like them in my 1911's, 45acp, 230 grain, feed reliably. I know the FBI was a fan of them for their 1911 45's as well.
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Posted: 8/10/2017 10:38:26 AM EDT
[#6]
I've tested Golden Saber 9mm 124+p, .40 165gr, and 357 Sig 125gr bonded in 4 layer denim covered water jugs. They all had great expansion, but the 9mm and .40 lost their jackets somewhere along the line, if that's important to you.
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Posted: 8/10/2017 12:00:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, in testing ive seen they often lose their jackets but still prnetrate and expand fine. Would be nasty to have the jacket come off on your guts lol
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Posted: 8/10/2017 12:07:26 PM EDT
[#8]
They tend to suffer from Jacket separation. The only ones the look really good are the 45 ACP ones. I have a backup mag with them for my G19 carry
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Posted: 8/10/2017 2:28:37 PM EDT
[#9]
functional and affordable.
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Posted: 8/10/2017 6:05:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, in testing ive seen they often lose their jackets but still prnetrate and expand fine. Would be nasty to have the jacket come off on your guts lol |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 6:20:45 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
functional and affordable. |
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Posted: 8/16/2017 10:50:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Don't forget 38sp. The 110g Golden Saber is a good performer too.
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Posted: 8/16/2017 11:00:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Especially when you buy from SG Ammo. I can actually afford to have extra self defense ammo laying around, and run some through a gun to make sure it functions fine before I carry it. |
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Posted: 8/17/2017 12:37:10 AM EDT
[#14]
There are two different types. A "regular", and bonded.
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Posted: 8/19/2017 4:29:06 PM EDT
[#15]
The Golden Saber is generally classified as a Generation 2 hollow point. Newer designs perform better.
The major up-side to the GS is that it has a very friendly feed profile, and in some older mil-surp guns this markedly improves feed performance. Not generally an issue in something like a 1911, but can be an issue in some of the older Hi-Powers with a humped feedramp. The downside is that there is zero chemical, and extremely poor mechanical, bonding between the jacket and core. Thus the GS round tends to have a very high core/jacket separation rate. Expansion is generally quite good if it stays together, but the expansion of the core itself is very small. Obviously intermediate barrier performance is also compromised by it's tendency to separate. A 3rd Gen holowpoint such as the Gold Dot, HST, Win Ranger B or T are better choices. The one place I might recommend the GS over other choices in in the .380. The GS round in that caliber is 102 grains instead of 95, and thus tend to penetrate a bit deeper. Edit to add: This applies to the original non-bonded version. Remington came out with a bonded version a few years back that in theory brings the GS up to 3rd gen standards, but I have never actually seen any in person. |
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Posted: 8/19/2017 10:35:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Last year while stocking up before the elections I was searching for ammo for my J-frame snubbie and couldn't find any GD short barrel but I ran across some expansion and penetration info that looked favorable for the GS .38's so I took a chance. I really don't care if the core separates as long as there is a good wound channel with good penetration. There is most likely better but there is for sure worse.
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Posted: 8/21/2017 12:23:04 AM EDT
[#17]
GS is my go to in 38 spl. All my S&W snubbies love it.
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Posted: 8/21/2017 12:42:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GS is my go to in 38 spl. All my S&W snubbies love it. 
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Posted: 8/21/2017 7:25:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I stopped using the GS in revolvers after I had a bullet walk and lock up a snub. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 1:44:29 PM EDT
[#20]
The bonded ones are as good as gold dots/HST/rangers
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:15:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Golden Sabres are accurate, burn clean, and have just a bit more noticeable recoil than the HST's and Gold Dots that I substitute carry. They also have a slightly louder ping against my AR-500 steel silhouette plate. Not significantly louder but you can tell the difference. I use Golden Sabres, Gold Dots, and HST's all interchangeably, all in 147 grain, standard pressure of course. My first choice is always HST. Back during the ammo crisis I was happy to snatch up a half a case of 147 Golden Sabres! I feel very comfortable carrying them in my P-01 EDC pistol. In fact, my carry piece has them in it right now!
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:22:52 AM EDT
[#22]
It would seem that Remington cranks them out in enormous quantities.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:48:36 PM EDT
[#23]
I can vouch for the effectiveness of the 165gr .40sw if your placement is right.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:51:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can vouch for the effectiveness of the 165gr .40sw if your placement is right. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:54:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They've got HSTs for another 2 cents a round. 
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Posted: 8/25/2017 9:44:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yikes. What's the safe procedure to fix that mess? |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 10:10:31 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yikes. Care to share that story? I will say on-duty, personally owned G23, working undercover, saved my bacon. |
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Posted: 8/29/2017 10:37:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Right now, In .38Spec its only a couple dollars more a box to shoot GS than Round Nose Lead. But its an outdated JHP design than does not match the performance of newer bullet designs.
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Posted: 8/29/2017 11:17:25 AM EDT
[#29]
They work fine in all my 9mm. They are my carry rounds, since it's what my local police department uses. One less thing to potentially have to worry about.
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Posted: 9/2/2017 9:23:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No Sir.... I will say on-duty, personally owned G23, working undercover, saved my bacon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yikes. Care to share that story? I will say on-duty, personally owned G23, working undercover, saved my bacon. |
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Posted: 9/4/2017 2:44:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Very common duty round. Newer stuff does a little better in gel but still beats most after going through auto glass.
Also saved my bacon at work. |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 12:37:31 AM EDT
[#32]
I have a box 165gr. GS in .40 I took in trade. Any advantage to a brass jacket vs. copper besides the golden color (marketing)?
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Posted: 10/15/2017 11:23:16 AM EDT
[#33]
I think all the newer Golden Sabers are bonded (jacket and core) much like Gold Dot
I've since switched to HST after we tested the hell out of it and switched to 147gr 9mm duty round in our 17M I carry HST or Gold Dot in all my guns but I wouldn't have a problem using Sabers |
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Posted: 3/31/2018 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Golden Saber Bonded ammo has been around for at least ten years now. The performance of the round is very underwhelming. Remington traded jacket separation issues and poor penetration for inconsistent expansion and over-penetration. There's worse stuff out there, but not much.
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Posted: 3/31/2018 2:24:21 PM EDT
[#35]
I consider golden sabers to be one notch above FMJ. I'd rather have HST in 147.
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Posted: 3/31/2018 2:42:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bonded ones are as good as gold dots/HST/rangers |
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Posted: 3/31/2018 2:52:06 PM EDT
[#37]
I prefer HST and Gold Dot, but I carry Golden Saber in my 1911's right now as I've always heard they cycle well in them.
I may try HST in the 1911's sometime, but I haven't tried them yet. I recently bought a few boxes of golden saber .357. Price was similar to target ammunition. |
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Posted: 3/31/2018 5:16:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer HST and Gold Dot, but I carry Golden Saber in my 1911's right now as I've always heard they cycle well in them. I may try HST in the 1911's sometime, but I haven't tried them yet. I recently bought a few boxes of golden saber .357. Price was similar to target ammunition. |
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Posted: 3/31/2018 7:10:32 PM EDT
[#39]
Just make sure to get the bonded ones all,the golden sabers ive tested into denim will,separate core and jacket..
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Posted: 4/1/2018 8:08:54 PM EDT
[#40]
I carry them in my .45s, buy cheap stack deep. They are like $22 for a box of 50 at SGammo.
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Posted: 4/3/2018 6:34:03 AM EDT
[#41]
I carried those for several years. No reliability issues putting about 150 rounds through a pair of 1st gen S&W M&P's (9fs, 9c). No ballistic testing though.
Never had any issues, even with older rounds. For a while last year they were almost impossible to find, so I switched to something else. |
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Posted: 4/15/2018 7:21:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carry them in my .45s, buy cheap stack deep. They are like $22 for a box of 50 at SGammo. |
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Posted: 4/26/2018 8:59:22 PM EDT
[#43]
LuckyGunner tested them and other jhp in 380, 9mm, 40, 45, 38 and 357 on their website. The GS bonded appears to do very well and only a little less impressive than HST.
Edited to add: Short barrel handguns were used in the tests and lots of rounds didn’t get up to speed to open. |
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Posted: 4/30/2018 11:32:46 PM EDT
[#44]
I ended up with a bunch after the FBI came to the range I was helping at for a training day. Down to my last 4 boxes. It’s always function well, accurate and from shooting into water or wet phone books it works fine.
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Posted: 6/12/2018 4:48:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Can anybody confirm if Remington is still making golden saber? It appears they are calling it "ultimate defense handgun ammo" now.
I figured all the cheap gs was closeout pricing? My pet load was the plus p 185 grn 45acp. I think it's rediculios how much other hollow points cost and I'm not even against carrying fmj in my 1911. |
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Posted: 6/15/2018 1:46:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Sir.... I will say on-duty, personally owned G23, working undercover, saved my bacon. |
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Posted: 6/16/2018 4:55:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For 20 or so year old hollow point in the era of the Black Talons it is still good. Depends how much the newer ones are now compared to when it came out. If as cheap as plinking rounds I would shoot them. For defense probably better newer rounds out there now. Yet some will still say that Black Talons are the best rounds that will stop a threat. And yet we do not have them anymore cause the media went crazy because they were black yet they worked perfectly as designed. They stopped the threat with trauma which is what they were designed to do. Yet those evil talons were why they had to drop the name. The fact they are not spinning any faster than the rifling started them, so 1 turn in 16 inches. That means in an 8 inch thick person it only makes half a turn. In a 16 inch person one turn. It just sounds very fast when RPM is calculated. |
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Posted: 6/26/2018 6:57:50 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 7/1/2018 1:47:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Ballistic Gelatin is intended to provide a consistent material to compare different bullet designs behavior.
Not simulate what a bullet does in an actual human body except in a very general sort of way. Most of your chest is filled with lungs. It is mainly air. You abdomen is more like water in a very weak container. Your intestines and alimentary canal. The stronger container is the muscle wall around it. |
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