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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:02:20 AM EDT
[#1]
I've had a soft spot for the 44 special for a while.
Who knows - I may actually own one someday. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:14:00 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had a soft spot for the 44 special for a while. Who knows - I may actually own one someday. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#3]
I have owned a couple S&W 44 specials, a model 24 four inch and a model 624 6 1/2 inch. I eventually traded them away. I prefer the model 29 four inch to either, it just seems to have better balance. I still shoot 44 specials hand loads in it. I also had a Colt SAA in 44 special. It didn't shoot where it looked for me with either the Skelton or Keith type loads. I sold it and had a Ruger flat top 357 converted to 44 special by Bowen, before Ruger started making them on that frame. I much prefer the adjustable sights that it offers compared to the SAA fixed sights. The action on a Colt SAA is much smoother than what I have on the Ruger but given the choice the adjustable sights out weigh the Colt trigger.
I used to keep a 44 special with Winchester Silver Tip factory loads for HD. I think it is a good round. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:34:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to keep a 44 special with Winchester Silver Tip factory loads for HD. I think it is a good round. The Silvertip would have been a good one to include in the testing linked above. But does Winchester still make the old Silvertip for the Special? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 1:41:32 PM EDT
[#5]
I like the Blazer 200gr HP load. I suspect it uses Gold Dot bullets.
My Charter Arms bulldog had to have the front sight filed down to get my point of impact to match the load, but that is no big deal. I wish I could find a Rossi little 44 special in good shape. I like the adjustable sights on that model. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:43:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Winchester still lists the 200 grain Silver Tip HP at 900fps from a 6 1/2 inch barrel.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 2:48:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Winchester still lists the 200 grain Silver Tip HP at 900fps from a 6 1/2 inch barrel. Would the factory ammo consumer want a +P load? I'd think so given the cost of premium defense ammo. I'd pay an extra buck or two a box if I thought I was getting something that might work better than some of the stuff in the article. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 3:50:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm. Yeah that's probably 750fps from something like a 3in barrel. Would the factory ammo consumer want a +P load? I'd think so given the cost of premium defense ammo. I'd pay an extra buck or two a box if I thought I was getting something that might work better than some of the stuff in the article. 44spc is a really good cartridge for reloaders, but it appears pickings are slim in factory ammo. My late Dad carried a 44 spc in his later years, just because he liked it, but again, a reloader, so he had ammo at velocities he liked in a modern gun. Of course some real (in a 4" gun) ammo is available over the counter from BB & Corbon but the price is high. You would think/hope that the Ruger GP100's in 44 spc and the S&W M69's (less so) would increase the interest in 44spc +p loads. We'll see, maybe if every 44 spc shooter tried to bug the ammo companies we'd see such a thing. I hope so, that Ruger just might be the thing that tips the scales. ETA: not to mention the people with 329's, that would like a reasonably priced (factory) hot 44 spc round for in town. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 4:17:02 PM EDT
[#9]
It would seem, with all the various companies making 44 Special "defensive" ammo, that there is a market for the cartridge. Hornady, Federal, Speer, SIG, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, Winchester, PMC, Underwood and probably a few others all make JHP ammo for this old girl. It would seem that all it would take is someone to push for a more modern loading to make it happen and get SAAMI to raise the pressure limit.
Underwood makes a couple different loads using the Speer Gold Dot and I've had some pretty good luck with the "Bulldog Only" load in my informal testing. When pushed to up around 950 fps the 200gr Gold Dot opens wonderfully and penetration is still good. The load is a bit stout but nothing that can't be handled unless you're shooting some scandium frame snubby or something. From talking to one of the guys at Underwood, he says the 44 Special Gold Dot loads are still within the current SAAMI spec even at these higher velocities. They're using specifically tailored powders to get where they want to be. While it might not be financially practical for Federal or Winchester to produce ammo like this it is nice to see there are higher performance options out there. Anyway, the other option is to hound the reloading companies like Western and Hornady into testing and publishing some hotter Special loads. Something along the lines of the 45 Colt "Blackhawk only" data. There is no special SAAMI spec for 45 Colt +P that I'm aware of. I think these loads only exist because there was enough public interest. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 6:00:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Are you familiar with Elmer Keith's writings? He had developed high velocity loadings for the 44 special nearly a hundred years ago. His load of 18.5 grains of 2400 powder behind a 250 grain Keith type semi wad cutter is a classic. I have used a variation of it for over thirty years in my heavy frame 44s, substituting a more standard 240 grain SWC for the 250 of the original load. I fired it over a chronograph out of my S&W 4" model 629 for an average velocity of 1225 fps.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:03:30 PM EDT
[#11]
Not surprising the modern loads performed well.
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Posted: 6/21/2017 5:16:37 AM EDT
[#12]
This is the 255 RN LHP from GT with a Keith-style dollop of 2400. I chrono'ed five of these and the average muzzle velocity is 1,082 fps. Low was 1063 and high was 1091. These are from a 3in barrel.
The bullet in bare gel expanded probably about as far as it'll go without breaking apart. Penetration was about 12in. Through clothing the bullet still had impressive expansion and 16in of penetration. My previous experimentation with Unique yields 950fps velocity and about 14in in gel. That's probably the load to use since recoil isn't as stiff yet penetration is still darned good. This bullet with one of the powder-type coatings to reduce leading might be a wonderful defensive bullet. I wonder if Underwood could be talked into making such a load.... Anyway, is the idea of a SAAMI approved +P pressure spec that hard to swallow? Is it not time someone actually steps on the 44 Special a bit or is it just not needed/wanted by the revolver shooters out there? 
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Posted: 6/22/2017 9:49:38 AM EDT
[#13]
.44Special is one of those cartridges that you are just going to have to load for. I have a soft spot for it too. The commercial stuff is watered down weak sauce. It can be safely loaded up to 80-85% of .44mag pressure though. When juiced up and loaded with hard cast truncated cone bullets... it performs similar to commercial loaded .44magnum handgun hunting loads. I was looking for a Smith 4" barreled .44Special for some time. Then switched gears to a Smith 625. I wish .44 Special was more popular!
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Posted: 6/22/2017 10:19:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.44Special is one of those cartridges that you are just going to have to load for. I have a soft spot for it too. The commercial stuff is watered down weak sauce. It can be safely loaded up to 80-85% of .44mag pressure though. When juiced up and loaded with hard cast truncated cone bullets... it performs similar to commercial loaded .44magnum handgun hunting loads. I was looking for a Smith 4" barreled .44Special for some time. Then switched gears to a Smith 625. I wish .44 Special was more popular! It is my guess that a pressure limit of something like 18,500psi would bump the velocities up for the 3" barreled guns where'd they'd still be comfortable to shoot and wouldn't beat the gun to an early grave. Even bumping to 22,000psi (Brian Pearce's Category Two Loads) appears to be safe in lighter Bulldogs although Pearce does not some premature loosening. Brian's data is some of the best I've seen as far as higher performance Special data is concerned and I'd love to see someone continue his efforts. It would be wonderful to see +P data in a Hornady manual or on Hodgdon's website... |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 2:36:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the Blazer 200gr HP load. I suspect it uses Gold Dot bullets. My Charter Arms bulldog had to have the front sight filed down to get my point of impact to match the load, but that is no big deal. I wish I could find a Rossi little 44 special in good shape. I like the adjustable sights on that model. The only factory 44 special ammo I have is a couple of boxes of Speer Blazer, with the aluminum case and 200 gr gold dot bullet. Carried that back in the days when I believed Ayoob's theory that you should carry factory ammo for CCW. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 4:09:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believed Ayoob's theory that you should carry factory ammo for CCW. It would be an interesting case study to a) see how many CCW holders have been in shootings over the last decade or whatever and b) what brands/types of ammo was used. How many shootings have taken place with reloaded ammo? And how many people got hacked up in court because of this? Actually, based on the prevalence of Ayoob's idea it might be next to impossible to find a case where personally reloaded ammo has been used. Anyway, I do seem to recall that Mas used to have a monthly column in one of the gun magazines where he would write about some home owner or private citizen getting in legal trouble for their actions in a shooting. I'm sure there were instances where he saw some ramifications from reloads that started him on his campaign. Or maybe it was all a ploy by big ammo companies to sell more ammo... I guess, until we know otherwise, I will err on the side of caution and stick to factory stuff for EDC. Mas could be entirely wrong. But I don't really want to be the guy who finds out. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 8:20:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ol' Mas has made a career out of the idea that only factory ammo is to be carried. It would be an interesting case study to a) see how many CCW holders have been in shootings over the last decade or whatever and b) what brands/types of ammo was used. How many shootings have taken place with reloaded ammo? And how many people got hacked up in court because of this? Actually, based on the prevalence of Ayoob's idea it might be next to impossible to find a case where personally reloaded ammo has been used. Anyway, I do seem to recall that Mas used to have a monthly column in one of the gun magazines where he would write about some home owner or private citizen getting in legal trouble for their actions in a shooting. I'm sure there were instances where he saw some ramifications from reloads that started him on his campaign. Or maybe it was all a ploy by big ammo companies to sell more ammo... I guess, until we know otherwise, I will err on the side of caution and stick to factory stuff for EDC. Mas could be entirely wrong. But I don't really want to be the guy who finds out. http://www.wthr.com/article/store-employee-will-keep-job-after-shooting-killing-robbery-suspect |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 8:46:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A good friend of mine used reloaded ammo in a justifiable self defense shooting. He used a 180gr HST loaded into a 10mm. 3 shots to the face later and the bad guy was dead. His reloaded ammo or choice of caliber was never even an issue. http://www.wthr.com/article/store-employee-will-keep-job-after-shooting-killing-robbery-suspect Each case is going to be different and we'd all hope that our actions would be judged by reasonable people. I'd hope that the courts would look at the totality of the circumstances; making the choice of gun or ammo unimportant. Fortunately that was the case for your friend. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 9:10:53 AM EDT
[#19]
So is there no consumer interest in an industry standard +P rating?
While it is true that handloaders have been loading to higher velocities since Elmer Keith got his first piece of Special brass these loads have never been supported by firearms manufacturers. The 38 Special exists in both standard and +P loading. This gives the consumer the choice of low recoil practice ammo and high pressure defense ammo. Pretty much everyone making 38 Special makes a +P load and a standard pressure load not to mention 357 Magnum. All these cartridges seem to serve equally in their own markets and I don't see why the same options shouldn't exist for the 44. Would those who own 5-shot Bulldogs and Rugers and Smiths not be interested in factory loads that produce higher velocities from short barrels? The original loads would still exist for target practice while the +P loads would give better terminal performance from stubby barrels. And the 44 Magnum would still exist for hunting, hiking, etc. It would be nice to also have +P load data that's available from bullet and powder manufacturers. I'd guess most handloaders would welcome modern data with modern powders and some newer bullets that gives better performance from 3" GP100 and M69 revolvers. I'm not envisioning a pressure spec that is anywhere close to the 44 Magnum but rather a limit that's maybe 15% above the current 15,500 psi limit. Hot 45 Colt data exists as does 45-70. Heck even the little 32 has some hotter ammo available. So why not? |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 9:21:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is there no consumer interest in an industry standard +P rating? While it is true that handloaders have been loading to higher velocities since Elmer Keith got his first piece of Special brass these loads have never been supported by firearms manufacturers. The 38 Special exists in both standard and +P loading. This gives the consumer the choice of low recoil practice ammo and high pressure defense ammo. Pretty much everyone making 38 Special makes a +P load and a standard pressure load not to mention 357 Magnum. All these cartridges seem to serve equally in their own markets and I don't see why the same options shouldn't exist for the 44. Would those who own 5-shot Bulldogs and Rugers and Smiths not be interested in factory loads that produce higher velocities from short barrels? The original loads would still exist for target practice while the +P loads would give better terminal performance from stubby barrels. And the 44 Magnum would still exist for hunting, hiking, etc. It would be nice to also have +P load data that's available from bullet and powder manufacturers. I'd guess most handloaders would welcome modern data with modern powders and some newer bullets that gives better performance from 3" GP100 and M69 revolvers. I'm not envisioning a pressure spec that is anywhere close to the 44 Magnum but rather a limit that's maybe 15% above the current 15,500 psi limit. Hot 45 Colt data exists as does 45-70. Heck even the little 32 has some hotter ammo available. So why not? |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 4:14:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Heavy 44 Special ammo exists, but it's not cheap
Buffalo Bore I suspect that most 44 Special shooters are handloaders and don't really care about what factory ammo is offered. |
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Posted: 6/24/2017 4:42:06 PM EDT
[#22]
I like to use 44 special in my s&w 44 mag Mod 686 as my home defense firearm.
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Posted: 6/25/2017 7:22:13 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heavy 44 Special ammo exists, but it's not cheap Buffalo Bore I suspect that most 44 Special shooters are handloaders and don't really care about what factory ammo is offered. You're correct that most Special shooters are going to be reloading ammo as there's plenty of "high performance" data out there. Still, I think it would be nice if one of the bullet or powder companies would support us in our efforts. |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 6:08:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is there no consumer interest in an industry standard +P rating? There are only 5 cartridges that have a +p version .45 acp .38 special .38 Auto (aka .38 super) .257 Roberts. 9x19mm Anything else marketed as +p is simply overpressure ammo. .38 special spec is 17,000 PSI with +p being 18,500 for a roughly 9% increase. .44 special is 15,500. A 9% increase would take it up to about 17,000 (standard pressure for .38 special). That's still pretty low by modern standards. And by modern I mean 1905. |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 6:20:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like to use 44 special in my s&w 44 mag Mod 686 as my home defense firearm. |
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Posted: 6/25/2017 7:54:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.44 special is 15,500. A 9% increase would take it up to about 17,000 (standard pressure for .38 special). That's still pretty low by modern standards. And by modern I mean 1905. This is my favorite load in my GP100 and launches a 255gr cast bullet to almost 900 fps from the 3in barrel. Above SAAMI? I'm sure. But unsafe? Decades of handloading would indicate that it isn't. Brian Pearce has a fairly extensive list of data under Category Two that are listed at 22,000 psi or less. I assume his pressure data was obtained via Quickload or similar. Link to download Pearce data |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:34:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the Blazer 200gr HP load. I suspect it uses Gold Dot bullets. My Charter Arms bulldog had to have the front sight filed down to get my point of impact to match the load, but that is no big deal. I wish I could find a Rossi little 44 special in good shape. I like the adjustable sights on that model. The Blazer 200gr are Gold-Dot! They look like a damn ashtray!!! PITA45 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 5:43:53 PM EDT
[#28]
I would love to see a 44spl version of the classic 38spl FBI load if possible. It's a great caliber IMO.
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Posted: 6/30/2017 5:38:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would love to see a 44spl version of the classic 38spl FBI load if possible. It's a great caliber IMO. Maybe the market doesn't need a +P spec but it certainly needs some dedicated short barrel loads. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 8:57:19 AM EDT
[#30]
I don't think it is so much an ammunition problem as much as it is a lack of proper ccw guns. About the only right sized carry gun in .44sp is the charter arms. Smith had the 696 but it was a short run. I was fortunate enough to get one and it is absolutely beautiful and accurate. I looked at the gp100 and it is HUGE. I wouldn't try to carry it concealed.
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:11:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I looked at the gp100 and it is HUGE. I wouldn't try to carry it concealed. I have had pretty good luck with the GP100 in a Galco IWB holster. Just swap out the big ugly Hogue grip for the GP100 compact grip and the gun hides away pretty nicely. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:32:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Federal does offer a 200gr LSWC HP for the 44 Special but it didn't do well in the tests. The muzzle velocity is too low from the 3in barrel. Maybe the market doesn't need a +P spec but it certainly needs some dedicated short barrel loads. |
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Posted: 7/8/2017 4:51:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm that's too bad. Wonder if a 185gr with max load of powder would get it done. |
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Posted: 7/9/2017 10:10:11 AM EDT
[#34]
I had an early S&W 696, a pre -1 revolver. It's best load was a 240gr XTP bullet with a charge of 2400 that made 1000 fps out of its 3" barrel. Stupidly sold the gun...a friend now uses that ammo in his.
My current snake and mountain lion gun is a 44spl S&W NightGuard. Much lighter, much more effective snake loads than the 38/357 offering, and I run factory GoldDot's. It's a nice easy to carry big bore. My bear country gun is the new S&W M69, I shoot it much better than I ever shot the M29/629 series N framed Guns. One load it really likes is the Garret Defender, their mid range speed load, it clocks at 1000 fps out of my 4.25" barreled version, with the 310 gr super hard cast SWC. Feels like less recoil than any 240gr magnum load in that revolver. |
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Posted: 7/16/2017 11:50:51 AM EDT
[#35]
I sold my .44Spec partly because it's expensive ammo offered .40SW performance, at best.
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Posted: 7/16/2017 12:28:26 PM EDT
[#36]
For years I've used Hornady 180gr XTP JHP bullets for my Charter Arms Bulldog. Not sure on velocity numbers, but very controlable and pretty much POA/POI at 10rds. It's my front door greeter if needed.
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Posted: 7/16/2017 3:09:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sold my .44Spec partly because it's expensive ammo offered .40SW performance, at best. |
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Posted: 7/16/2017 8:20:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Probably not as good as 40 since there are things like the HST available for the 40. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I sold my .44Spec partly because it's expensive ammo offered .40SW performance, at best. |
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Posted: 7/16/2017 8:30:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But a 44 will never shrink to 40 cal... |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 11:54:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wrong direction. Heavier with a larger HP is optimal in a shorter barrel. |
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Posted: 7/28/2017 12:39:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the velocity is too low for expansion at 200gr why would a heavier (slower) bullet expand more? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Wrong direction. Heavier with a larger HP is optimal in a shorter barrel. A heavier bullet has greater mass, which increases momentum, which in turn tends to increase penetration far more reliably than increases in velocity. The result is that you have a deep penetrator, similar to what you'd want on bears. Since we now have more-than-adequate penetration, we can look at trading some of that penetration for expansion, hence the large hollowpoint (or other method to increase expansion). Successful bullet design balances penetration and expansion within an optimal velocity window. |
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Posted: 7/30/2017 8:41:42 AM EDT
[#42]
Shoot a lot of 44 special, from Taurus ul snubby to N-frames. Last time I chrono'ed them, the blazer 200 gdhp got honest 900 fps from 3 inch 696. Significantly faster than the brass cased version, and of opinion excellent 44 special defensive load. Also use handloaded 180 xtp, which gets 1000 fps from 696. Both these bullets expand readily at those velocitys, as they are designed to. Am doubtful there are many heavier jhp bullets expanding at snub 44 special velocity's, but may give significant penetration increase.
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Posted: 7/30/2017 8:55:34 AM EDT
[#43]
Speer make a 210gr Gold Dot that's meant for the 44 Magnum. I have loaded these in 44 Special and was very pleased with accuracy. The bad thing, being that these are Magnum bullets, is that they won't expand at Special speeds. Even loading them hot didn't make them expand as I'd hoped.
This is likely going to be the case with many of the JHP bullets meant for the 44 Magnum. They'll be too heavily constructed to work well at the lower Special velocity. Add the loss of velocity from a 3in barrel and I think it'll only further handicap the bullet. |
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Posted: 8/5/2017 2:08:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Had the GP100 out today, ran Blazer, Underwood Gold Dots, and some 220gr reloads. Underwood claims 1100fps on their load, but I felt only slight differences from the blazer load. Love this cartridge for its flexibility. I've got some Keith loads that are close to 44mag level, and powderpuff lead loads.
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Posted: 8/8/2017 6:09:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ol' Mas has made a career out of the idea that only factory ammo is to be carried. It would be an interesting case study to a) see how many CCW holders have been in shootings over the last decade or whatever and b) what brands/types of ammo was used. How many shootings have taken place with reloaded ammo? And how many people got hacked up in court because of this? Actually, based on the prevalence of Ayoob's idea it might be next to impossible to find a case where personally reloaded ammo has been used. Anyway, I do seem to recall that Mas used to have a monthly column in one of the gun magazines where he would write about some home owner or private citizen getting in legal trouble for their actions in a shooting. I'm sure there were instances where he saw some ramifications from reloads that started him on his campaign. Or maybe it was all a ploy by big ammo companies to sell more ammo... I guess, until we know otherwise, I will err on the side of caution and stick to factory stuff for EDC. Mas could be entirely wrong. But I don't really want to be the guy who finds out. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I believed Ayoob's theory that you should carry factory ammo for CCW. It would be an interesting case study to a) see how many CCW holders have been in shootings over the last decade or whatever and b) what brands/types of ammo was used. How many shootings have taken place with reloaded ammo? And how many people got hacked up in court because of this? Actually, based on the prevalence of Ayoob's idea it might be next to impossible to find a case where personally reloaded ammo has been used. Anyway, I do seem to recall that Mas used to have a monthly column in one of the gun magazines where he would write about some home owner or private citizen getting in legal trouble for their actions in a shooting. I'm sure there were instances where he saw some ramifications from reloads that started him on his campaign. Or maybe it was all a ploy by big ammo companies to sell more ammo... I guess, until we know otherwise, I will err on the side of caution and stick to factory stuff for EDC. Mas could be entirely wrong. But I don't really want to be the guy who finds out. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 8:19:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For reasons I will not elaborate, I'm no longer the raging Ayoob fan. However, as he often says, "no one keeps that statistic". Sadly for the argument, the case is only made by Mr Ayoob himself, and skeptics can merely dismiss his idea as "theory" .... I find myself still believing in the idea of factory ammo only but for a couple reasons. One is the idea that use of factory ammo is going to be more defensible in court. The other is for the potential reliability issue. With that said I don't think something like Buffalo Bore and some others will be any more defensible than reloads especially when some of this ammo is marketed as being "deadly." Heck even Hornady says they make "deadly" ammo. Also I don't see this as an absolute. If I'm on my way home from the range and have a 1911 loaded with 4.2gr of 700-X and a 200gr LSWC and shoot some goblin who attempts to carjack me at knifepoint I don't see how anyone could make the claim that such a load is deadlier than a Federal HST. Also my actions as the shooter and the actions of the shootee have to be evaluated. If I shoot some guy raping a woman in a park I'm probably fine regardless of ammo used. But if it turns out the guy was just having rough sex with his wife in a secluded shady spot and I kill the husband I'm probably going to be in hot water. In such a scenario my choice of ammo will likely help make the case that I am some Charles Bronson vigilante out looking for justice. |
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Posted: 8/9/2017 1:56:11 PM EDT
[#47]
I think ayoob is right. And while not an attorney, he is licensed to try cases of a sort, as some special Leo prosecutor
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Posted: 8/9/2017 4:42:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the .029" difference is anecdotal at best. Taking a 30-06 to 338-06 is only 38 thousands difference. But real world pressures, and downrange effectiveness ARE improved imo. Not that 30-06 needs a lot more effectiveness in most North American situations. Others will disagree of course. I'm fine with that but anybody who carries a .44 for every day use has likely already succumbed to some form of "a bigger bore might be advantageous for my uses". As for the handloads for self defense, I've carried them for decades with absolutely no concern, again others will disagree. If you want to hear the sermon directly from the preacher ie Ayoob, you can look here and come to your own conclusions: http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/183812-reloads-law.html http://smith-wessonforum.com/concealed-carry-self-defense/343966-question-leos-regarding-ammo-choice-court.html It's a complete and total non issue to me. YMMV. |
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