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Posted: 6/18/2017 9:38:57 AM EDT
I had a poor experience yesterday with some DoubleTap .40 S&W 200 gr hardcast.

I purchased a 50 round box to try in my usual hunting & hiking sidearm, a M&P .40.

Ammo arrived about 10 days ago and yesterday was my first range day to try it out.

I loaded a magazine and started on a target.  The second and tenth rounds in the mag failed to fire.  Each round had a primer indentation but no bang.  

I was extremely surprised at this number of failures in only 15 rounds, considering DoubleTap presents themselves as premium ammunition for hunting and defense.

I inspected my pistol to verify no problems with striker or other internals.  I then proceeded to run about a hundred rounds diwnrange, a mixture of Winchester and Federal with zero issues.  I'll add I have this psricular pistol for years, and it has been a workhorse, devouring all sorts and brands of .40 ammo without a hiccup.

This is the first time I had tried 200 gr hardcast.  I also tried the 2 duds a second time and neither fired.

I've contacted DoubleTap about this issue, and I hope to hear back from them.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 10:29:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Dam.  I can guess what ammo your not carrying.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 10:49:30 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Dam.  I can guess what ammo your not carrying.
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If you guessed DoubleTap, then you'd be right.

Attachment Attached File


I wish I had grabbed at least a few of the 13 rounds that fired to inspect the primer marks.   However, I wasn't thinking about it and gave permission to one of the local brass buzzards to keep all the swept up brass.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 10:53:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Here they are from a different angle.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 10:59:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Does that gun have any aftermarket trigger parts?
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:05:32 AM EDT
[#5]
i've always suspected an initial light primer strike could cause an issue between the anvil and primer cup

causing the primer not to detonate on subsequent strikes
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:09:15 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Does that gun have any aftermarket trigger parts?
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Not to my knowledge.  It was purchased as a police trade in 4 years ago.  

It is always possible the guts were modified, but the trigger seems M&P stock to me.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:11:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Are you certain the primers are fully seated?  Sit them on something perfectly flat and check.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:13:48 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


Not to my knowledge.  It was purchased as a police trade in 4 years ago.  

It is always possible the guts were modified, but the trigger seems M&P stock to me.
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Danger sign right there.  I was a deputy, and new to handguns back then.  I and many other clueless deputies tried to lighten our trigger pull till we learned we were idiots.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:14:35 AM EDT
[#9]
But I bet you are going to find high primers on that ammo.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:17:05 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
i've always suspected an initial light primer strike could cause an issue between the anvil and primer cup

causing the primer not to detonate on subsequent strikes
View Quote
Possible, but I would think it strange if the pistol was delivering light primer strikes this issue would have never cropped up before.  

Maybe DoubleTap uses an unusual primer or seating depth for their ammo?

I know the knee jerk reaction in these situations is "their ammo not my gun!", but I can truthfully say in my hands this pistol has gone through right around 1000 rounds without issue until yesterday.  But if it is the pistol I do want to know because this is one of my go-to guns mostly because of reliability.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:24:54 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Are you certain the primers are fully seated?  Sit them on something perfectly flat and check.
View Quote
Could I lay a machinists ruler or a level across the back to verify?  That's about the only things in this house I can think of that would be flat.  To the naked eye they look normal, but clearly the Mk I eyeball is only so accurate.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 11:28:31 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Danger sign right there.  I was a deputy, and new to handguns back then.  I and many other clueless deputies tried to lighten our trigger pull till we learned we were idiots.
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Quoted:
Quoted:


Not to my knowledge.  It was purchased as a police trade in 4 years ago.  

It is always possible the guts were modified, but the trigger seems M&P stock to me.
Danger sign right there.  I was a deputy, and new to handguns back then.  I and many other clueless deputies tried to lighten our trigger pull till we learned we were idiots.
Understood.  I bought this pistol during panic times mainly because I could find .40 on the shelves and it was cheap.   I was planning for a range toy, but it has been so reliable for so long I started carrying it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 3:04:43 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Could I lay a machinists ruler or a level across the back to verify?  That's about the only things in this house I can think of that would be flat.  To the naked eye they look normal, but clearly the Mk I eyeball is only so accurate.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Are you certain the primers are fully seated?  Sit them on something perfectly flat and check.
Could I lay a machinists ruler or a level across the back to verify?  That's about the only things in this house I can think of that would be flat.  To the naked eye they look normal, but clearly the Mk I eyeball is only so accurate.
Really, they should be slightly below the case.  Anything flat.  Mirror, etc.  put them base down. If they wobble even a bit the primers are high.  I think mine are typically .005-.010 below the case. Pretty hard to see, but you can feel it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2017 8:55:29 PM EDT
[#14]
I doubt it is your gun because you ran other ammo without a problem. It could be Doubletap is using hard primers.
Link Posted: 6/19/2017 3:30:05 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
I doubt it is your gun because you ran other ammo without a problem. It could be Doubletap is using hard primers.
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I think that this is a bad lot of ammo.

I've ran 10mm DT out of my G20, no issues. Same with DT 9x19 out of my VP9 and no problems. Same with .45 ACP DT out of my 1911 Loaded, no issues.

Bad lots do happen from time to time though.
Link Posted: 6/19/2017 12:07:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Here they are from a different angle.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/314595/IMG-2427-233443.JPG
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Looks like a light primer strike.
Link Posted: 6/19/2017 2:18:05 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
Looks like a light primer strike.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Here they are from a different angle.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/314595/IMG-2427-233443.JPG
Looks like a light primer strike.
That was a thought I had as well.  I wished I had thought to grab up my brass to compare primer strikes.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 8:59:35 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
That was a thought I had as well.  I wished I had thought to grab up my brass to compare primer strikes.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Here they are from a different angle.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/314595/IMG-2427-233443.JPG
Looks like a light primer strike.
That was a thought I had as well.  I wished I had thought to grab up my brass to compare primer strikes.
It could be, or it could look that way because half the strike energy finished seating the primer.
Link Posted: 6/20/2017 10:09:00 PM EDT
[#19]
I checked a sample of the I fired rounds on the surface of a mirror, and I could not discern high primers on any.

I received a reply to my inquiry at DoubleTap, and a sales manager is handling my issue.  DoubleTap requested any pictures I could provide and will proceed from there.  

Right now I'm pleasantly surprised, as they seem to be taking this seriously (which I believe they should, but these days who knows what may pass as customer service).

I appreciate the response, and will update this thread.
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 10:30:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 12:15:54 PM EDT
[#21]
DoubleTap is going to send me a replacement box and a shipping label to return my current box for inspection.

While I'm not happy I had this issue, I feel they handled it seriously and promptly, so I can't fault their customer service.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 10:14:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Double Tap sent me a replacement box of ammunition and a shipping label to return my original box.  As soon as I have a chance I'm going to run a couple of magazines of the new batch through my M&P.

FWIW, in my email exchanges with the DoubleTap rep, he mentioned at one point they had a bad batch of primers, so it's possible some of those round may have found their way into my box.
Link Posted: 7/6/2017 4:43:06 PM EDT
[#23]
Interesting. I just ran about 500 rounds of 124gr 9mm last weekend without a single problem. Got another 300 of 45 acp waiting in the wings. My experience with the folks at DT is they are top notch.

Probably just a bad batch. It happens.

Glad they're taking care of you.
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 6:01:44 AM EDT
[#24]
I received a replacement box from DoubleTap as well as a prepaid shipping label to return my original box.

I took the replacement box to the rangevthis weekend and the rounds functioned flawlessly.  

DoubleTap took my problem seriously and, as far Im concerned, resolved the issue.
Link Posted: 8/13/2017 2:34:40 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
I received a replacement box from DoubleTap as well as a prepaid shipping label to return my original box.

I took the replacement box to the rangevthis weekend and the rounds functioned flawlessly.  

DoubleTap took my problem seriously and, as far Im concerned, resolved the issue.
View Quote
I started inspecting every round of carry ammo a long time ago.

If you cannot see light between a machinist's ruler and a primer it is NOT deep enough.

Even the small end is straight enough and long enough to span a large primer.
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