With the 147gr +P HST thread completely derailed it was obviously time to post another test. I asked my wife if we had an extra frying pan I could shoot. She gave me that look, you know the one. The look of “why did I marry him”. So the frying pan test will have to wait.

So in this test I did the normal work up with a little extra. Two rounds into bare gel, two rounds into heave clothing, and two rounds from a short barrel pistol in bare gel. Lastly I tried something new.  Two rounds from a short barreled pistol into gel covered with a single layer T-shirt.



The first four rounds were fired from a Sig 320 compact with a 4 inch barrel. The first round fired into bare gel had a velocity of 1101fps and penetrated to 17.5 inches and expanded to .59 inches. Round number two had a velocity of 1113fps, penetrated to 15 inches and expanded to .61 inches.




The first round into the heavy clothing had a impact velocity of 1109fps expanded to .61 inches and penetrated to 18 inches. The second round penetrated to 17 inches and expanded to .58 inches.  The crony didn’t pick up the velocity.



Now some short barreled test with my 3 inch S&W Shield. Two rounds into bare gel then two through cotton T-shirt covered. Round one in the bare gel had a velocity of 1017fps, penetrated to 16.5 inches, with expansion of .62 inches. Round two also penetrated to 16.5, expanded to .64 inches with a velocity of 1051fps.



Finally, two round fired from a 3 inch Shield into gel covered by a cotton T-shirt. I didn’t get a velocity reading on the first round but it penetrated to 14 inches and expanded to .63 inches.  The last round impacted 1024fps, penetrated to 15.75 inches and expanded to .65 inches.



https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com/

Lol. Sorry about the other thread. Thanks for the testing.

ETA: Have you done 147 gr HST standard pressure?

Thanks for testing.  Did you record how long the entry neck were for these shots?  I expect a pretty short neck, but was curious to see if you got similar results that shootingthebull410 got from his 3" barrel.

No I have not.

Entry neck?

I think they mean the distance from point of entry to beginning of expansion.

Yes, the distance from gel entry to when the bullet opens up.  You can tell when the stretch cavity starts.

I'm glad you did this test. It shows the point myself and others were trying to get across to Mr frying pan. The difference between 147gr +P HST and 124gr HST is so little it is hardly even noticeable. It isn't even a 100fps difference between the two much less a 200fps difference as was being claimed in the other thread. I get the impression the 124gr +P HST isn't going to make that big of an impact either. Both the 124gr and 147gr HSTs are solid performers as 9mm rounds go. Thanks OP. I look forward to hopefully seeing the standard pressure 147gr HST and the 124gr +P HST tests.

No I didn't.

I have some 124gr +P’s I plain to try next but no standard 147gr.

Since you want to derail his thread once again, learn what you are talking about. This isn't a heavy barrier. It also wasn't shot from a Glock 17 like on the other test for consistency.

I can show you tests were 100 to 200 fps made a difference in whether it went through a  hard barrier or not like in the other thread.

This isn't about barriers you are correct. You claimed in the other thread that there was a 200FPS difference between the 124gr and the 147gr +P. You insisted that this extra 200FPS velocity was what made the 124gr a better choice. Now it seems you are claiming 100fps is the diffence maker since the test concluded you were wrong all along about the difference in velocities between the two rounds. I and others contested that 200FPS is going to make a next to nothing inregards to performance on the target down range. Barrier or not. In the end we are not even talking about a 200FPS diffence. The velocity difference between these two bullets is so small it isn't even worth debating. Your whole nonsensical argument about 200FPS being the difference maker collapsed on it's self. As I and others in that thread tried so very hard to help you understand is that when we start talking about velocity differences that are nothing but a couple hundred FSP at most, (and the difference here is even less than that), things are six of one half dozen of the other. They are pretty much the same level. As I and others asserted in that other thread I have shot 147gr +P HST through various car parts and had no trouble with the round, that the 147gr +P HST performed as expected. I further concluded through my own test that since 124gr +P HST and 147gr +P HST were performing exactly the same through those chosen barriers I ultimately ended up choosing the 147gr +P HST because I found that while both bullets suffered deflection through windshield glass the heavier 147gr +P HST seemed to be effected less by the forces placed on it by the various angles of the windshield. You rambled on about frying pans and other stuff and I will concede, I have never been attacked by a rouge frying pan. As such I have never felt the need test how the 147gr +P HST performs against such a threat vs how the 124gr +P HST performs. Maybe we can contact striker and see if we can start a pots and pans drive so the OP can perform a test that will satisfy your irrational fear of cookware. Then you will be able to sleep well at night knowing your 124gr HST is the death dealing, skillet slaying beast you always knew it was.

For the love of all things holy, would you two please stop.

Very impressive results, OP.

Thank you.

Is this not a technical discussion? Besides, you're not my supervisor.

I find it interesting that the lower velocities from the shorter barreled shield produced the most expansion.

I think that is because the higher velocities are causing the rounds to "fold up" on themselves. The shorter barrel and lower velocity is allowing for a more controlled expansion. What you are loosing in penetration you are gaining in final expansion though the differences are minimal. It would be great if we had a 9mm carbine to see how much of an impact is made out of a 10'' or 16'' barrel. I think we would see lots of penetration and the final expansion would be even less. The question is by how much?

I'm not backpedaling. Even 50 fps makes a difference depending on the thickness of the barrier. Why do you think LEO'S are issued 4 to 5 inch barrels instead of just 2.5 or 3 inch barrels if velocity doesn't matter?

And since you are so obsessed with pans as examples, pan 1 at X thickness requires Y amount of velocity to penetrate while pan 2 at X+1 thickness will require more Y+1 amount of velocity. Going with a shorter barrel or heavier grain at a lower velocity would fail on pan 2.

Numerous tests show that in regards to armor.

I was going to stay out of this one but since you want to run your yap, I'm game. It's entirely up to you. I can post on this thread or the other with examples of less than 100 fps making the difference of whether it penetrates a plate or not.

Stop being such an ass and let the guy run his tests without feeling the need to throw insults.

Make your point and if wrong, be prepared for respectful criticism.

Higher velocities cause more expansion. At a distance the same bullet that expanded to .70 will expand a lot less due to less velocity.

But like mentioned, if it is too fast the petals fold back.

Thanks OP for the gel testing.  I hope you keep your kitchen ware locked up when you are not around.

Another comedian. Feel better?

There are multiple barrier tests that have been done on youtube if that interests you Will.

You obviously don't get it if you posted that video. I honestly thought you were grasping an understanding. Please. Stop embarrassing yourself. You can't help yourself can you?

Here you go. 115 gr 9mm vs 180 gr .40. Take a guess which penetrated more of the barrier.

9mm vs .40 2x4 Test

Let the man post his videos without your compulsive need to add your insults based on false facts. What's next out of you? That 2X4's aren't common barriers? Beware of flying 2 X4's!

I'm not sure what your problem is. I didn't watch that video. I just figured since you are so hung up on barrier stuff I would point you in the right direction since this thread isn't about that. You could then get into a discussion about that in your own thread. I don't think you want that though. You want to continue shiting in these threads because the results are not what you want. You seem satisfied lashing out at others in this thread instead. That's cool with me. Carry on.

If that's what you say and think, so be it. Results speak for themselves. Carry on.

I placed him on ignore last night so problem solved on my end. I have contributed to this and many other threads in this forum, sharing my insight, experience and learning without issue. I apologize to the OP for my part in getting dragged down into the stupid and playing a role in the derailment. Won't happen again.

Thanks for the test !  These are my carry rounds in my CZ75. I felt good about them before but now I really feel warm and fuzzy.

Thx for the test, OP. 124gr HST is what I carry in my Shield.

Thanks for the info. I carry the 124 and 147. Your tests are very welcome. I wish people could behave like adults and not ruin your threads.

Yet here you are, in a tech thread trying to stir the pot.

This is a technical discussion ther will be different view points. A lively discussion is not acting like children. Posting crap like "that's what I carry" is little more than spam. It offers zero to the discussion about a given round.

@5pins if you need ammo to test I have some Speer gold dot 124gr +P it would be intresting to see a side by side against the 124gr +P HST.

SPEER 124GR +P GDHP IN CLEAR BALLISTICS GEL.

Lol. Well then.

ETA, looks like HST is running just a touch hotter.

My carry load of choice.