Because out of a pistol in soft flesh it underpenetrates. Yes it can kill but a 9mm penetrates deeper.

That's cuz grunts look at cover differently.

Fwiw I've found 147 grain fmj to penatrate small trees better and straiter that 9mm nato but that has a lot to do with the flat point I think.

BTW, don't start dropping insults "clowns" and than try to call out other posters for resorting to insults. You loose the high ground.

I agree that with rifles the difference between 193 vs 855 is significant when it comes to steel armor. But you want to know what's a better all around load? 70 grain Barnes, 77 grain hpbt, 64 grain bonded soft point, etc. Speed isn't the most important thing when it come to well rounded bullets. With 2 old designs yes, I want the faster one. With new bullets give me the best bullet for the job.

The difference between 124-147 HST bullets I want the more accurate load because I will wager a beer you would never see a consistent difference between the 2 when factoring in hard barriers in public spaces.

I agree that steel barriers are a real world issue. Walking in to a bank or a supermarket, what are you surrounded by?

I was a grunt, but I'm realistic about what I'm likely to encounter as a civilian. If a perp is getting behind cover, it's likely I have an opportunity to break contact. Also, the problem with shooting through cover is that you don't know who else is behind it. How bad would it suck to take shots at a goblin through cover and kill a child. Unless bullets are coming your way, it's best not to shoot what you can't see. 

You've never been shot at by someone using cover as a grunt?

I agree that PID is VERY important. If someone is shooting at me from behind cover then they are PID.

Eta, I don't pretend I'm still in or anything. I just think it's human nature to seek cover and it's prudent to realize that if I was walking into a Christmas party through a parking lot and 2 terrorists come running out shooting AKs I want to know my CCW can preform if needed through a car door, etc.

Or if i chilling with my family watching fireworks and a terrorist starts ramming through a crowd in a truck I want to be able to protect my family.

It isn't a grunt thing or a police thing. It's a trapped and you can't get away thing. Had I been one of those gays at the Pulse Nightclub, I may have had to shoot through a steel door of a bathroom or aluminum stall door to get to him if I was hiding there.

I may have had to shoot through some other barrier if that was the only shot I had. I may have had to shoot through an AR magazine to get him if that was the only shot that hit him near vitals.

The point is, you never know what you'll run into and you have to choose what's best. Can a 147 make it through barrier X? Maybe. What if barrier X was a few inches thicker and failed where an extra 200 or 250 fps may have made it through.

They could both have very well failed but the faster one has a better chance in this particular round we are speaking of being a 9mm.

When I leave my house, I can carry a rifle to be fully prepared for everything but I compromise and take a pistol. I can compromise and take a 10mm but I'll be too big so I go smaller. I can take a .357 Sig but the ammo is hard to find locally and much more expensive to practice with so I go with 9mm. I can carry a full sized 9mm for more speed but I go with a subcompact. I can go 147's for less than a mm more of expansion but I choose a little more speed instead to give me a better chance.

That's how I look at. In fact I'm considering another +P+ load from a 124 gr Gold Dot loaded by Underwood that travels 1400 fps.

I do the best that I can but I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that the 147's penetrate the exact same or more even when they don't. They absolutely would in soft tissue if they were a FMJ with no hollow point parachuting it to a stop in a body. But in a hollow point configuration, no matter what the grain they are designed to penetrate about the same in soft tissue within inches of one another.

My woods carry load by the way is a 147. It's a Buffalo Bore 147 gr +P flat point hardcast. It penetrates deep in an animal. Not so if it's a hollow point.

You have to understand how bullets work and bigger and slower isn't always better. It does if nothing is parachuting it to a stop and doesn't if going through something hard.

We get it, you like light bullets because stuff and 200fps and dumpsters, and bathroom stalls and buses and gas pumps and car doors, and night clubs and frying pans. Rambling on over and over again saying the same stuff over and over again doesn't make what you are saying correct. This thread is about testing the 147gr +P HST, not what you think everyone should carry.

Another intelligent reply.

Multiple people have replied to your continuous derp. Yet you continue on saying the same stuff. "But muh 200fps". Give it a rest.

And multiple people are uninformed yet willingly refuse to learn due to the choice they made without really knowing why. That's how it goes I guess when they are wrong even after seeing proof in video.

Kind of like liberals on Facebook after being shown fact.

Don't take it personal dude. You didn't really know why you chose a 147 gr hollow point except that you thought bigger was better. It happens. My first carry was a 1911 chambered in .45ACP. I used to think bigger was better for everything. I learned however from others that it wasn't the case for everything.

I can't believe I am about to reply to your stupid again but here it goes. I know why I use 147gr +P HST. I have shot it through car doors, fenders and windshields it penetrated just fine. However, with the exception of a windshield, I live in the real world, I am not going to shoot blindly through cover and concealment because rule 4. I have to account for the shots I take. So that guy hiding behind a dumpster doesn't have to worry about me shooting him through the dumpster because A, it violates that whole rule 4 thing, a noncombatant could have ran and hid behind that dumpster as well, believe it or not more than one person can take cover behind barriers like dumpsters and gas pumps and in bathroom stalls. When billets hit barriers they deflect it is not worth the risk to others in the area. B, handguns are poor performers anyways. If someone is taking cover behind something I am going to use the opportunity to break contact. I am not going to literally waste ammo firing blindly into a barrier hoping for a hit on a target, I know might be there but I can't really see in the hope that "muh 200fps", frying pan slayer is going to win the day for me. The idea is to survive. You do not have to kill the other guy or even fire a shot to do this. Be smart, be tacticful and understand your environment. 200FPS isn't the real difference maker, that thing between your ears is no matter what you are carrying.

So much fail in your response. You think when someone takes cover, they stop shooting so you can run away? If I was in a gunfight, cover is the first thing I would look for if available and return fire. And as stated before, when you are trapped, you cannot run away. Fighting may be your only chance of survival. You should take some tactical classes. You know nothing of what you speak of.

I'm not sure what "tactical classes" are, (do I get to dress up?), but I am very much a student of the gun and have spent lots of time and money taking multiple firearms courses. In those courses time has been spent discussing, shooting and discussing some more about barriers and the effect a chosen round has on them. I chose the 147gr +P based on those experiences. I'm sorry this bothers you and while I appreciate your concern with my ability to penetrate frying pans, I am very confident that should I ever get attacked by cookware, I will be able to escape. This thread is about the 147gr +P HST and the OPs testing of that round. Not about your feelings about why people should or shouldn't carry a given round. We have all heard and have taken turns trying to explain to you the errors in your argument but I think the time has come to just let it go because it is clear we are pissing into the wind trying to explain this all to you. Take care.

Then carry what you want. Carry a. 380 for all I care. I never said that you were wrong for carrying what you want or that you should carry what I want.

I just pointed out fact that it penetrates less than a speedier load will in hard barriers. Most didn't know that including yourself. Most incorrectly stated that they carry 147's due to more penetration and that is false and I explained why.

There's no need to get butt hurt and personal over it. I've shown you multiple examples of this proving you wrong and even showed you an example of what an extra 200 fps can do in whether it penetrates or not but it bothers you to be wrong so you have to spew nonsense about getting attacked with frying pans because you have nothing else.

It's sad that you aren't open to learning.

So go ahead and spew some more nonsense without fact just for the sake of saving face.

Yes I usually carry a Shield 9mm or Glock 43, so would like to see how they fair in a short barrel.

Phil Collins?  Antiquated?  You shut your whore mouth!!!

Please quote we're I said the 147gr +P penetrates better that the 124gr. You can't because I didn't. You are the ONLY one in this thread swimming counter stream about this test. BFD you like the 124gr better. You think it is better. It penetrates frying pans better.  Outstanding. We get it. You schooled all of us. Thank you old wise zen master of cookware. What would this place be without your knowledge.

You are welcome.

Holy shnikes batman this thread has gone somewhere.......  I cannot believe how this has blown up about 124 vs 147.  I have so many memes I could post in here but to bad it is not GD.

124 vs 147 one is not going to kill or stop any better than the other in a hugely significant way.  Also all the UNKNOWN factors will have more effect.  I think I would be more concern with the barometric press and humidity effect on the bullet than which HST round is more better.

That is what I and others were saying. The differences between these two rounds are so small it almost isn't even worth discussing.

Some people need to validate their decision on what they carry....  If I were to carry brand X and Y configuration I need to say how much better it is than your choice to carry brand A in B configuration.  We see this all the time when so and so says G19 is better than anything else and that is gospel.  But reality is G19 is just an instrument that does the exact same thing as a HK VP9 or S&W M&P.  It is like saying my Kobalt hammer is better than your Husky hammer but they do exactly the same thing which is drive nails.

I don't feel the need to validate anything. (I'm not saying you are referring to me.. I'm just saying what pertains to me.)

I found on another thread a a Gold Dot loaded by Underwood that goes 1400 fps.

I'm currently researching it instead of bashing the guy who made a post about it.

Would 12 inches of penetration in soft tissue be worth the trade-off of more barrier potentiation compared to a standard HST at 1200 fps?

I don't know. A standard HST 124 gr penetrates? around 16 to 17 inches in soft tissue so I have to weigh it out and make an informed decision based on fact

But you cannot just go off the "numbers' alone other factors that that you cannot control will have more effect than numbers.  Yeah it is all well and great when a load does X Y and Z.  But how does it perform when you hit a bone, you shoot a fat man, it is cold outside, the Earth rotation slowed down that day, or who knows.  I chose 147gr std pressure HST or Winchester Defend\PDX1 147 standard grain because it preforms within a standard and I can shoot it incredible accurately and fast.  The recoil is very light and on a shot timer it I was fastest and most accurate.  I believe so long as you pick a good load you are as good off as anyone else.  What shines in my book is numbers on a timer.... If I can get faster more accurate hits it is far more valuable than this one penetrates this deep or goes this fast.  In the end I will let you in on something that will change your world ..... Pistols in service caliber loads all you are doing is poking holes.

I dont have time to read back through the thread but a couple of the reasons I choose 147 standard pressure HST.

Soft recoil, does very well in short bbl so I can use same load between 3-5" guns, always available sub $20/50, and IMO a heavier bullet may not penetrate barriers as well but it does retain more mass to punch through bone better. I generally choose heavy bullets for this reason.

ETA: I don't care what anybody else uses. Do your thing. As 03 stated earlier if I had a G19 full of 124gr NATO ball so be it.