Speer Lawman 53879 40 S&W 180gr TMJ....shelf life? UPDATE in OP

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Speer Lawman 53879 40 S&W 180gr TMJ....shelf life? UPDATE in OP

Posted: 10/27/2016 12:02:44 PM EDT

So I bought 2 cases of this from a well respected vendor (not site sponsor) and received the first case yesterday.

My brother and I each wanted a case to store as I like having some factory ammo around.

I was rather agitated to find out that this is CF (Clean-Fire) ammo with the primers being marked CF and the box label showing CF after the other load details

It was $11.99/box + reasonable shipping but since I don't shoot 40 S&W much (and had no intention of shooting this ammo in the next decade honestly) I now have a case of lead-free primed ammo that I have to shoot in the next 4 years from what I can find

I guess this is a fair warning to everyone. If you want to know that the Lawman you are buying isn't CF ammo then look at this list. If the product # isn't on this list then I would steer clear.

UDPATE: After sending an e-mail this morning I did get a response that they would allow me to return it since it was their error and will send me a return label. I think I am going to take them up on their offer and will ask my brother what he wants to do as well.

Posted: 10/27/2016 12:08:39 PM EDT

[#1]

Store dry and cool. It will work in 75 years.

Txl

Posted: 10/27/2016 2:47:43 PM EDT

[#2]

Thanks for the reply. Hopefully that is the case as I am thinking I will be stuck with it unless the vendor responds at some point.

Posted: 10/27/2016 9:29:38 PM EDT

[#3]

Mass ammo?

Posted: 10/27/2016 10:04:08 PM EDT

[#4]

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Mass ammo?

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Yup. No response from them yet either.

This isn't the first less than accurate ad that I found out about after the item arrived (the Fusion ammo pictured in boxes that shipped without them in an ammo can comes to mind).

I am thinking this will be my last order from them at this point anyway. If I get no response at all it definitely will be.

Posted: 10/28/2016 5:04:52 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

Yup. No response from them yet either.

This isn't the first less than accurate ad that I found out about after the item arrived (the Fusion ammo pictured in boxes that shipped without them in an ammo can comes to mind).

I am thinking this will be my last order from them at this point anyway. If I get no response at all it definitely will be.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Mass ammo?

Yup. No response from them yet either.

This isn't the first less than accurate ad that I found out about after the item arrived (the Fusion ammo pictured in boxes that shipped without them in an ammo can comes to mind).

I am thinking this will be my last order from them at this point anyway. If I get no response at all it definitely will be.

Keep us posted. I've posted links to them a couple times but will be more judicious in the future

Posted: 10/28/2016 5:10:23 PM EDT

[#6]

Will do.

No response as of yet. I submitted it using their contact form and it said it was successful so either it didn't send, they are busy, or they are ignoring it.

Time will tell but I did unsubscribe from their mailing list as I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars only to wonder what I am going to be receiving with no real way of returning it while only saving ~$30/1000 rounds.

Posted: 10/31/2016 11:07:44 AM EDT

[#7]

No reply from the vendor, however, they did raise the price $2/box.

Also, they now put "CF" in the title on the product page but it wasn't there when I bought nor is it in my order confirmation. They also don't explain what it means.

Basically, I am saying they are a deceptive vendor that I will no longer do any business with

I have never said that before about any other vendor (even B*$%$h).

Posted: 10/31/2016 11:18:00 AM EDT

[#8]

Newbie here. What about CF ammo makes it potentially have a shorter shelf life?

Posted: 10/31/2016 11:24:40 AM EDT

[#9]

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Newbie here. What about CF ammo makes it potentially have a shorter shelf life?

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CF = CleanFire

After seeing that stamped into the primers I started looking and it means lead-free/non-toxic. I have seen anywhere from 5 years to 10+ years shelf life depending on how the ammo is stored. Heat and humidity kill them rather quickly.

Here is a PDF with some testing done on DDNP primers.

ETA: I just sent an e-mail rather than their "Contact Us" section to see if they will respond. I don't know at what point I should/could contact my CC company to see what they say? I have thought about it over the weekend and their ad was deceptive and I didn't get the product I thought I was getting. I don't want to dispute the charge but if they won't even respond to an e-mail to attempt to make it right I am unsure how to proceed.

ETA 2: My CC company said that I can dispute the charges at any time so I guess I will give them a couple more days to at least contact me. I am leaning towards disputing the charges though as I didn't get what I wanted because they didn't list the ammo correctly.

Posted: 10/31/2016 6:34:03 PM EDT

[#10]

Glad to see they are eating the return shipping.

Good on them

They're a new company. I wonder if they even knew cf primers have a shelf life.

Posted: 11/1/2016 10:41:22 AM EDT

[#11]

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Glad to see they are eating the return shipping.

Good on them

They're a new company. I wonder if they even knew cf primers have a shelf life.

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I haven't heard back from them again since responding that I wanted to return it. They said a "full refund" too so I asked them if that included original shipping or not. I guess we will see.

Posted: 11/2/2016 5:16:29 PM EDT

[#12]

No labels or contact from them since Monday so I am going to see what Chase says I should do. I really don't see expecting them to reply to me and send the labels within 2 business days is really that unreasonable

ETA: Chase had me start a dispute so I did and sent another e-mail asking for labels. If they respond I can cancel the dispute using Chase's website it appears. What a PITA!

Posted: 11/2/2016 10:02:19 PM EDT

[#13]

You over estimate the failures of Cleanfire . I have a bunch of the CCI I picked up 10+ years ago. No issues at all . The Winchester stuff is not as reliable .

Posted: 11/2/2016 10:37:06 PM EDT

[#14]

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You over estimate the failures of Cleanfire . I have a bunch of the CCI I picked up 10+ years ago. No issues at all . The Winchester stuff is not as reliable .

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You could very well be right, however, if I would have known it was CF ammo I wouldn't have purchased it.

It would honestly be at least 10 years before I would use it since I have lots of components to reload first and I don't shoot much 40 S&W.

Posted: 11/3/2016 7:51:53 PM EDT

[#15]

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Quoted:

You could very well be right, however, if I would have known it was CF ammo I wouldn't have purchased it.

It would honestly be at least 10 years before I would use it since I have lots of components to reload first and I don't shoot much 40 S&W.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
You over estimate the failures of Cleanfire . I have a bunch of the CCI I picked up 10+ years ago. No issues at all . The Winchester stuff is not as reliable .

You could very well be right, however, if I would have known it was CF ammo I wouldn't have purchased it.

It would honestly be at least 10 years before I would use it since I have lots of components to reload first and I don't shoot much 40 S&W.

I use a lot of it and buy more when it is cheap . I love the 9mm .

Posted: 11/4/2016 5:52:48 PM EDT

[#16]

Did you ever try to call them?

Posted: 11/4/2016 6:10:52 PM EDT

[#17]

I got labels from them and cancelled the dispute. The ammo goes back Monday so hopefully this is over soon.

Posted: 11/14/2016 8:23:30 PM EDT

[#18]

I am not trying to be a jerk or anything but you don't think you would have shot 1,000 rounds over the course of ten years?

Posted: 11/14/2016 8:27:47 PM EDT

[#19]

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Quoted:
I am not trying to be a jerk or anything but you don't think you would have shot 1,000 rounds over the course of ten years?

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Not when I have 12K rounds worth of components to load for it first and I only shoot a couple hundred rounds of 40S&W per year at most.

I shoot a lot of 9mm but hardly ever shoot 40S&W. I just wanted some factory ammo to store should I ever need it for a class or CCW qualification.

Posted: 11/14/2016 8:31:00 PM EDT

[#20]

Wait, so if I'm reading correctly, this CF ammo is perishable rather quickly?

Posted: 11/14/2016 8:39:35 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Wait, so if I'm reading correctly, this CF ammo is perishable rather quickly?

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From what I have been able to find 5-20+ years depending in large part on how it is stored. Cool and dry will make it last a long time. Heat will kill it quickly from what I have read.

It has its place but not in my long term stash.

Posted: 11/16/2016 10:27:48 PM EDT

[#22]

Just a thought. In 2008 there were no primers to be had. I picked up 5k PMC lead free primers. There were horror stories on the net of how bad they were...I stored them well and years later I loaded them all in 9mm with fast burning powder. Zero problems.

Keep this stuff in a closet that is temperature and humidity controlled. You may be delightfully surprised.

Just one mans experience.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Speer Lawman 53879 40 S&W 180gr TMJ....shelf life? UPDATE in OP

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