Let me preface this by saying I almost never go into the woods these days, and I know that even if I did, running into an aggressive black bear is an astronomical event. Because of this, I recently traded my G20 for another 9mm Glock that I will actually shoot on a regular basis. I'd still like to have something for bears. Is this ammo a decent solution, or should I just listen to my friends and buy bear spray?





https://www.underwoodammo.com/9mm-luger-p-147-grain-full-metal-jacket/



 

I'd try the extreme penetrators

Do you reload? I load 147gr FP cast lead 9mm for $5/50 and use that in the woods.

$30 for a hot FMJ is outrageous to me.

Given a bears extreme sense of smell, coupled with the generally moderate performance of 9mm ammo, the bear spray might make a better choice.

Especially on bears other than black bears.

I read up on bear attacks.
I'd have my Glock for two legged animals and spray for the bears.
I'd also have about 50 bear bells on me.

There was a fishing and hunting guide in Alaska, that recently used Buffalo Bore 147gr hard cast from a S&W 3rd Gen Auto to kill a grizzly in the process of attacking him and his clients. The thread, with pictures is somewhere on the 24 hour campfire forums.

It's obviously not a first choice for large bears, but I don't sweat packing my usual 9mm Glocks around the woods here. We have only black bears here. I sometimes swap my usual RA9T for a 147gr FMJ load if I am concerned about it, but most times I do not bother. I keep a shotgun full of Brenneke slugs handy if I camp in known bear territory.

Be warned, some of the high pressure boutique hard cast and FMJ loads do not run reliably in all guns.

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OP, when I'm in the deep woods I carry THESE exclusively when I carry a 9mm... They are designed to penetrate 4-5 feet of flesh with their Lead Hard Cast truncated cone construction and velocity. They chrono a hair above 1100fps out of a 4.5" barrel and best yet... they exhibit almost zero flash even in total dark.They penetrate hard bone and thick hide rather well. I started carrying 9mm in the woods for the capacity it offers over my venerable .45Super that I used to carry in the woods. My SP-01 offers 19+1 capacity as opposed to the 1911 I converted to .45Super that offers only 10+1 capacity with the extended 10 round McCormick magazines. I hunt and fish in and around the Nantahala National Forrest and there are lots of black bears, wild bore, and backwoods "people", and I use the word people loosely... I feel more than adequately armed with an SP-01 stoked with the Buffalo Bore 9mm+P Outdoorsman ammo. It's the most accurate ammo I've ever fired out of a 9mm as well as Buffalo Bores .45Super Outdoors load which packs even a bigger wallop than the 9mm; but not so much more that it compensates for the limited magazine capacity over the 9mm. In fact, I'm ordering some of the recommended 9mm Outdoorsman loads today for an upcoming fishing trip we are taking Labor Day in Highlands NC...

The .45Super loads ARE the most accurate pistol ammo I've ever shot in all my years shooting/training/hunting. They can be found HERE as well and also have zero muzzle flash and stellar performance.

One other thing, I know that it is customary to use hard cast lead flat nose bullets. Is there any reason to pick hard cast lead? Because the buffalo bore is hard cast, and the linked underwood ammo is a FMJ with the same basic shape.

My dad kept a a handgun loaded with hard cast lead Buffalo Bore and the lube melted and gummed up the entire pistol. While it doesn't get that hot in NC, it can get pretty hot in the summer. Plus, this will be used in a Glock 17 or 34 with a stock barrel.

I've seen a few studies that show the bear spray tends to work better than firearms.

With that said, I'd also get the buffalo bore hard cast. It would work if the spray malfunctioned, was lost, or plain didn't work. It would still be effective on 2 legged predators as well. You wouldn't really need to worry about overpenetration in this case.

The lead in the FMJs is more likely softer, with the jacket adding some rigidity.

Has there ever been a documented incident, where the victim of a bear attack was found with an "underpowered" handgun in his hand?  My point is:  having any reasonable pistol will be a vast improvement over carrying nothing.    Practice with what you carry, you will be just fine.

I think Hard cast lead is generally used because for area you can get more weight in a bullet of the same volume; while 147 is about the max for a jacketed bullet you might be able to get up to 160 with the jacket area being lead instead of copper all while retaining powder capacity,, down side is you end up with higher pressures.  In .357 mag you can get 180 grain bullets that are hard lead and they are DEEP penetrators, but they are moving too when they go off I think like 1400 fps.  Hard cast lead also doesn't leave residue as easily as soft lead, there is some sort of math formula using Rockwell hardness to FPS and pressure. IIRC it had to do with super soft lead melting on to the walls of barrel when firing but TOO hard meant that it wouldn't fit the grooves correctly and get rifled correctly and lose velocity,

I've carried a .45Super with the Buffalo Bore Hard Cast stuff in deep Georgia... They have never left any "gum" on anything. They are hard cast lead and are rather hard as their name implies. I've never had to use bore solvent either after shooting them. Just run a half mag of FMJ's after shooting them and no lead is left in the barrel in a 1911. The BB LSWC 255 grain Hard Cast ammo is the absolute most accurate ammo I've ever shot in a handgun. And it hits hard, really hard at over 1100 fps... It's perfect for an outdoors pistol load in the south. His 9mm Outdoors loads are almost very good as well. You can't go wrong with them and they chrono out to what BB claims they do which to me is important from a Quality Control perspective.

The buffalo bore looks like the best of the two.

I think the recommendation for hard lead over FMJ is that most states prohibit "hunting" with the FMJ load. The lead bullet will perform exactly like an FMJ in most cases.

Buffalo Bores Outdoorsman's bullets are a truncated cone,(flat point) constructed bullet made of Hard Cast Lead. The overall shape of this bullet coupled with the Hard Cast Lead design makes for a bullet that is significantly harder than any standard FMJ bullet is. This bullet performs differently against tissue and bone than a typical round nose FMJ does. It's designed to break and shatter bones while doing more damage against soft tissue than a FMJ does. The typical round nose FMJ zips thru tissue by pushing it out of the way, nosing it's way thru the course of it's wound channel. The flat nose bullet tends to drive and tumble in a more linear-strait line on it's angle/course of impact. An FMJ can do it too but it tends to yaw in it's wound path more so than a truncated cone bullet typically does. This is why hunters prefer the flat meplate profile and certainly the characteristics of the hard cast lead bullet construction. It works well for hunting and for defense against thick skinned, heavily muscled-boned animals.

This

Click the link above and scroll down to "Sketch 5" to read about Supercavitation and Meplate shock. It describes in detail how a truncated cone, lead hard cast bullet, works upon thick hide, flesh and bone. It's much differently than a standard FMJ with a soft lead core...

I've seen worse choices OP. Is say go for it but consider a bear spray.

Hard Cast is a better because it will not deform. Soft lead in a jacketed Flat nosed FMJ of the same weight and size can deform if it hits a hard enough bone on a large animal like a bear. If the bullet deforms and flattens out a bit, it will hinder penetration.

The Hard Cast will not flatten as easily. There are other metals mixed in besides lead.

This is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks!