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Posted: 5/9/2016 5:49:55 PM EDT
I imagine there is no clear-cut answer for this, but I was wondering what the pros/cons of various bullet weights were from a practical standpoint.

I've been shooting plated hollow-points out of my 1911s - which all have 5" barrels.  I've been getting my ammo/bullets from Freedom/X-Treme because their RN have 5-6mil plating thckness vs. Berry's 3mm.  Their HP bullets are plated to 9mil, which is getting up there at ~1/3 of a typical jacket (30mil).  This is all for range practice and practical competition - killing paper and knocking down plates.  Not interested in defense applications with this stuff.

I've been toggling back and forth between 200gr (870FPS) and 230gr (840FPS), but really haven't noticed a whole lot of difference, other that a bit more recoil with the 230s.  With a full-sized 1911, however, the difference isn't substantial.  Back in the day, I exclusively shot 185gr match SWC rounds out of my 1911s on the range.  I've been leaning toward 200gr, probably because of the 185gr legacy (I was deadly with those things), and the 200gr are typically a penny a round cheaper than 230s (bonus).  So, help me decide on a definitive weight.  What are the pros/cons of a 15% heavier bullet?  What are the pros/cons of a 15% lighter bullet?  How about for hitting bowling pins?

Thanks for any/all info and opinions you can provide.
Link Posted: 5/9/2016 9:28:11 PM EDT
[#1]
I've shot so many 200gr IPSC major loads that's what I'm used to and prefer.  Never did like the muzzle flip from the 230gr  bullets and 180gr stuff is a bit too much recoil at IPSC load power.  Now with a compensated 1911 the 180gr loads come into their own right with 200gr loads in 2nd place.
Link Posted: 5/11/2016 6:31:41 PM EDT
[#2]
230
Link Posted: 5/11/2016 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
230
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I have to agree. 230 would be best.
Link Posted: 5/17/2016 1:45:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Conventional wisdom holds that momentum is important when knocking down steel plates and bowling pins. While "weight = momentum" is something of an oversimplification, increasing bullet weight is the easiest way to increase momentum.
Standard bullet weight in .45ACP has been 230 gr for a century. Your 1911s are designed around it.
If you're shooting enough that a penny / round makes a difference, you're shooting enough to take up casting and reloading. No need for any sort of jacket or plating (let alone a hollowpoint) in practice ammo.

230 gr. RN cast.
Link Posted: 5/18/2016 10:50:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Conventional wisdom holds that momentum is important when knocking down steel plates and bowling pins. While "weight = momentum" is something of an oversimplification, increasing bullet weight is the easiest way to increase momentum.
Standard bullet weight in .45ACP has been 230 gr for a century. Your 1911s are designed around it.
If you're shooting enough that a penny / round makes a difference, you're shooting enough to take up casting and reloading. No need for any sort of jacket or plating (let alone a hollowpoint) in practice ammo.

230 gr. RN cast.
View Quote


Thanks for the input, but I have to disagree with some of your assumptions.  First, momentum is mass x velocity, and with an increase in weight, velocity goes down.  I don't know the relationship between the rates of change, but I suspect that with the +/- 10% changes in weights involved that momentum might not change that much, but probably does increase for heavier rounds by some amount.  Second, most talk about bullet energy, not momentum.  Kinetic energy is proportional to mass x (velocity)^2, so lighter and faster bullets generally have more energy at the muzzle, and transfer of kinetic energy is what knocks down plates.  Higher momentum does causes energy to be retained longer, as velocity will fall less over distance with a heavier projectile, so at some distance the heavier bullet may retain greater energy than a lighter one.  Have to do the math for specific loads and distances to see who wins.

As for cast - I'm forever jaded from a lead bullet experience I had about 25 years ago where I ended up with a severely leaded barrel after shooting a box of lead reloads...I think it might've been in a 38/357 revolver, but I don't exactly remember.  What I do remember is spending 3 days and an entire bottle of Hoppes 9 getting all of the lead out of the barrel.  I have shot lead out of my 45s since, however, and there is no problem at 45-type velocities.  OTOH, cost for buying plated bullets is very close to hard cast lead, and you get the advantage of no lead smoke while shooting indoors (if you worry about that sort of thing).  I shoot the HP only because the plating is 50% thicker than on the RN and SWC bullets (HP = 9mils) and additional cost for the HP is negligible.
Link Posted: 5/18/2016 1:32:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thanks for the input, but I have to disagree with some of your assumptions.  First, momentum is mass x velocity, and with an increase in weight, velocity goes down.  I don't know the relationship between the rates of change, but I suspect that with the +/- 10% changes in weights involved that momentum might not change that much, but probably does increase for heavier rounds by some amount.  Second, most talk about bullet energy, not momentum.  Kinetic energy is proportional to mass x (velocity)^2, so lighter and faster bullets generally have more energy at the muzzle, and transfer of kinetic energy is what knocks down plates.  Higher momentum does causes energy to be retained longer, as velocity will fall less over distance with a heavier projectile, so at some distance the heavier bullet may retain greater energy than a lighter one.  Have to do the math for specific loads and distances to see who wins.

As for cast - I'm forever jaded from a lead bullet experience I had about 25 years ago where I ended up with a severely leaded barrel after shooting a box of lead reloads...I think it might've been in a 38/357 revolver, but I don't exactly remember.  What I do remember is spending 3 days and an entire bottle of Hoppes 9 getting all of the lead out of the barrel.  I have shot lead out of my 45s since, however, and there is no problem at 45-type velocities.  OTOH, cost for buying plated bullets is very close to hard cast lead, and you get the advantage of no lead smoke while shooting indoors (if you worry about that sort of thing).  I shoot the HP only because the plating is 50% thicker than on the RN and SWC bullets (HP = 9mils) and additional cost for the HP is negligible.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Conventional wisdom holds that momentum is important when knocking down steel plates and bowling pins. While "weight = momentum" is something of an oversimplification, increasing bullet weight is the easiest way to increase momentum.
Standard bullet weight in .45ACP has been 230 gr for a century. Your 1911s are designed around it.
If you're shooting enough that a penny / round makes a difference, you're shooting enough to take up casting and reloading. No need for any sort of jacket or plating (let alone a hollowpoint) in practice ammo.

230 gr. RN cast.


Thanks for the input, but I have to disagree with some of your assumptions.  First, momentum is mass x velocity, and with an increase in weight, velocity goes down.  I don't know the relationship between the rates of change, but I suspect that with the +/- 10% changes in weights involved that momentum might not change that much, but probably does increase for heavier rounds by some amount.  Second, most talk about bullet energy, not momentum.  Kinetic energy is proportional to mass x (velocity)^2, so lighter and faster bullets generally have more energy at the muzzle, and transfer of kinetic energy is what knocks down plates.  Higher momentum does causes energy to be retained longer, as velocity will fall less over distance with a heavier projectile, so at some distance the heavier bullet may retain greater energy than a lighter one.  Have to do the math for specific loads and distances to see who wins.

As for cast - I'm forever jaded from a lead bullet experience I had about 25 years ago where I ended up with a severely leaded barrel after shooting a box of lead reloads...I think it might've been in a 38/357 revolver, but I don't exactly remember.  What I do remember is spending 3 days and an entire bottle of Hoppes 9 getting all of the lead out of the barrel.  I have shot lead out of my 45s since, however, and there is no problem at 45-type velocities.  OTOH, cost for buying plated bullets is very close to hard cast lead, and you get the advantage of no lead smoke while shooting indoors (if you worry about that sort of thing).  I shoot the HP only because the plating is 50% thicker than on the RN and SWC bullets (HP = 9mils) and additional cost for the HP is negligible.


As noted, the emphasis on momentum and heavy bullets for knocking down plates and pins is the conventional wisdom, i.e., what has been found to work best by those who do it a lot in competition, and have done so for years. You asked, I answered; you can decide whether you believe it or not. No worries.
As to leading, it's unfortunate that you had a bad experience with undersized bullets early on. At pistol velocities, leading is caused by undersized bullets; the hardness of the alloy has little to do with it, despite the oft-repeated emphasis on "hard-cast" bullets.
Link Posted: 5/20/2016 2:08:20 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
230
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The auto was designed around the 200gr round!
But the military want a little more pouch!
So the 230gr came to life! I believe!
IMHO: I like a heave(230gr or more JHP), slower
(then most other rounds) bullet 850 to 900fps!
But that just me!

PITA45

Link Posted: 5/20/2016 11:11:51 PM EDT
[#8]
My personal experience with bowling pins is that the most efficient .45 bullet is a 215gr with a very wide flat point. The round produced the most startling effect of any .45 bullet I tried. And I tried everything from 155gr to 230 LRN and hollow points. There was a distinct difference in energy transfer as evidenced by how violently the pins moved.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 10:30:19 AM EDT
[#9]
I shot 200 gr SWCs as my default in practical pistol competition as it was the sweet spot between controllability for speed on cardboard targets and momentum on the poppers, and the load could be changed to manage the momentum and recoil to meet the need.  

If it was strictly a bowling pin shoot, I'd load up with 200 gr  LSWCs at 1100 fps.  Momentum matters more than speed in a pin shoot as the guy who wins is the guy who knocks all the pins off the table cleanly, and that requires one shot per pin with one center of mass hit with plenty of momentum.  And believe it or not, a 200 gr LSWC at 1100 fps has slightly more momentum than a 230 gr bullet at 940 fps.

Conversely if I was just knocking plates off a stand, where speed was paramount and the momentum needed was minimal, I'd load up with a 200 gr LSWC at around 680 fps and use a reduced weight recoil spring.  The momentum of that load is identical to the momentum of a 155 gr bullet at 900 fps, but feeding and reliability were always better for me with the 200 gr LSWC.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 12:34:27 PM EDT
[#10]
The .45 was originally supposed to 200 grains, but later pushed to 230.  I think either one is gtg.
Link Posted: 5/22/2016 12:36:54 PM EDT
[#11]
i stick with what it was designed for.

230 45 acp

124 9mm.

240 44

clown
Link Posted: 5/23/2016 11:50:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I shot 200 gr SWCs as my default in practical pistol competition as it was the sweet spot between controllability for speed on cardboard targets and momentum on the poppers, and the load could be changed to manage the momentum and recoil to meet the need.  

If it was strictly a bowling pin shoot, I'd load up with 200 gr  LSWCs at 1100 fps.  Momentum matters more than speed in a pin shoot as the guy who wins is the guy who knocks all the pins off the table cleanly, and that requires one shot per pin with one center of mass hit with plenty of momentum.  And believe it or not, a 200 gr LSWC at 1100 fps has slightly more momentum than a 230 gr bullet at 940 fps.

Conversely if I was just knocking plates off a stand, where speed was paramount and the momentum needed was minimal, I'd load up with a 200 gr LSWC at around 680 fps and use a reduced weight recoil spring.  The momentum of that load is identical to the momentum of a 155 gr bullet at 900 fps, but feeding and reliability were always better for me with the 200 gr LSWC.
View Quote




I shoot a lot of paper with my 1911 and slower loaded 200 SWC's have been my go to as well. It seems to be the sweet spot
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