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Posted: 11/24/2015 6:38:14 AM EDT
Sections of European 9x19mm Police And Military rounds.  Please go to AR-15 Ammo section to see descriptions of the rounds, takes too long to type twice.  Many of these projectiles are not allowed here in the states because of the metal content.  Thanks for looking, wolfganggross










Link Posted: 11/24/2015 9:06:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Takes two seconds to simply highlight, copy, and paste.



European 9x19mm sections of police and military rounds. Most will never see any of these here in the states due to the metal content of the rounds. Enjoy, but no drooling!

wolfganggross



First pic is all from MEN in Germany. All are copper projectiles

MEN/17 - SP

MEM/09A0532 - PTP/s

MEN/02 - QD-PEP/s 91gr

MEN/04F0501 - SR

MEN/98-7 - QDI/s 89gr







Second pic are all DAG, from Germany again. First one is solid copper, the rest solid brass.

GECO Blitz Action Trauma (BAT) Action 1, type 1 with no hole at tip

SX/88 - A3

SX/390 - A3

SR/06E0811 - A4

SX/03B0802 - A5

SX/05B0870 - Solid Brass Alloy (like Sintox Penetrator)







Third picture are from Thun (RAUG) Switzerland

T/13 SX this is the Sintox Penetrator

T/02F2 P Self 99gr for police testing and training

T/011 P SeCa 99gr For police use only

MPT/84 Plastic Frangible (Cartuccia M41)

Last picture shows the 2 piece construction of the middle rounds.











You're welcome
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 10:11:43 PM EDT
[#2]
I never get enough of these cutaways. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/26/2015 2:34:52 AM EDT
[#3]
These are great! You have a few in there I have never even heard of before.
Link Posted: 12/1/2015 1:46:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Can we discuss the theory on why they use certain rounds in police work versus the U.S. where we tend to see hollow points?

I guess I see the thought of frangible rounds, but most ARFCOMers know why we dont use frangibles in self defense.

Link Posted: 12/4/2015 2:41:57 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Can we discuss the theory on why they use certain rounds in police work versus the U.S. where we tend to see hollow points?

I guess I see the thought of frangible rounds, but most ARFCOMers know why we dont use frangibles in self defense.

View Quote


Most (all?) of these are rather old designs, coming from the era when the Relative Incapacitation Index was thought to be the end-all, be-all of terminal ballistics. The RII placed great emphasis on temporary cavitation and pretty much ignored penetration. Bullets that scored well on the RII were light for caliber in order to maximize velocity (and, therefore, temporary cavity). For the same reason we got prefragmented /frangible designs.
The wound ballistic research coming out of Europe at that time was almost exclusively focused on velocity. This erroneous focus may be partially due to their uniform use of soft soap as a terminal ballistic medium, rather than ballistic gelatin. Soft soap dramatically over-emphasizes the temporary cavity. This, combined with a focus on military (read: rifle) relevance only reinforced the cult of velocity.      

Since Eurocops didn't get much practice shooting dirtbags, and their institutional culture is not one of free exchange of information between police and forensic pathologists (cops only rarely attended forensic autopsies), there was little to no feedback on terminal ballistics. They also tend to use submachine guns much more frequently, and multiple hits cover up a lot of terminal  ballistic sins.

I may well be mis-remembering, but I don't recall too much concern at the time with the ability to penetrate body armor, although there were plenty of commie / muslim terrorists (Bader-Meinhof gang, Red Brigades, PLO, etc.) about.
Finally, we cannot ignore the political power of the Green movement, with their hatred of lead in all forms. I believe there was / is also a political prejudice against hollowpoints for the usual "they look scary" reasons.  
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