It took me 10 years to realize this. There are 3 bullets in the picture below. A 9mm 115gr, a 27gr 5.7x28 SS195/SS198, and a 40gr 22lr. The 5.7 SS195 at 27 grains is by far the lightest bullet. However, because the SS195//SS198 bullet has an alloy core and not lead, at 27 grains it is almost the biggest bullet of the three projectiles!

Most people would think a 27 grain bullet would be tiny. I certainly did. I never understood how the 5.7x28 27gr bullet could be the least bit effective. I always pictured a bullet about half the size of a 22lr in my mind. But because the 27gr 5.7 bullet has an alloy core, it is much larger than I imagined. This in part explains the impressive wounding capability of the 27gr 5.7x28mm round. At almost 1" long and traveling at 2100fps out of a pistol, the tumbling and yawing 27 grain projectile can do a great deal of damage to soft tissue and bone.

Essentially every argument you have heard about the 5 7 being a wimpy little bullet that couldn't possibly be effective, is simply wrong and not based on fact. Compared to the 9mm, what the 5.7 lacks in diameter it certainly makes up for in length.

Who knew the 5.7x28 27gr bullet was this large? I sure didn't. I seriously pictured half of a 22lr.

Sorry, I deformed some of the bullets when pulling them. I have never done this before and went at it with a vice and a pair of pliers.


From left to right: 5.7x28 27gr bullet (loaded in SS195 & SS198 FN ammo), 9mm 115gr, 22lr 40gr

Which is why facts and real world performance are important.

 




"The bullet looks really big so it's more better" isn't based on fact either.  





"This in part explains the impressive wounding capability"  Impressive? The only time 5.7 is impressive is a AP subgun bullet hose from the P90. Birdshot has impressive wounding capability too, that does not mean it's effective enough to count on reliably for self defense. Much like birdshot, a lot of 5.7 ammo is high velocity and light, which leads to low penetration.




Unfortunately, 5.7 is bound by the same laws of physics as everything else. Just because it looks big doesn't change it's mass and performance.

 

There's a few problemos with that, though.

1) the yaw isn't through the entire length of the wound track. It can be several inches in, or it can only last for a few inches. When it is not yawing, the bullet is a .22

A) Even when it is yawing, it has a smaller surface area than an expanded 9mm HST through denim. [.22 in^2 v .24 in^2]

B) Then you how a problem of how it will yaw. Look at the (really poor ) graphic I made below, where the shot is *slightly* off a BGs critical structure:



If the 5.7 decides to yaw vertically, it could miss the mark when a similarly placed 9mm hollow point would have worked. Plan for Murphy, not Lady Luck.

2) It underpenetrates the 12" mark - generally under 10" out of the pistol.

3) Muzzle blast and flash are likely high. I admit that I have never fired a Five-seveN pistol at night - but I can only assume it is blinding. The majority of SD shootings happen at night. Good SD ammo in 9/40/45/223 will contain flash-suppressed powders. I have a feeling these do not.

There is actually tons of info online about recent shootings of humans and animals with the 5.7. Fort Hood being a good case study for the effects of human targets. Everything I have read about actual shooting with the 5.7 suggest the round is very impressive on soft targets. But this post really isn't an argument about the effectiveness of the 5.7, I'm just pointing out the actual size of the bullet, which I found surprising.

If you are interested in reading about the effectiveness of the 5.7 round on soft targets. Here are a couple of suggestions:

Here is the most recent post I have seen. It was posted the other day by one of our soldiers overseas. He works with the Belgian military and they carry the Five Seven. It is a documented shooting with the 5.7 pistol and the findings from the Medical Examiners report. It is consistent with all the other reports I have read that involve shootings with human and animal targets and the 5.7.

http://fnforum.net/forums/5-7x28mm-ammunition/74050-ss198lf-vs-sporting-rounds.html

And here is a link to every living thing that was every shot with a 5.7 and what their friend's cousin thought about it ;) You need to read through all the posts and click on the links you want.
All 5.7 Shootings Ever

After reading all of that you can make an informed decision about the 5.7. That is pretty much how I learned about this round.

Both parts highlighted in red...

 

But this post really isn't an argument about the effectiveness of the 5.7

Essentially every argument you have heard about the 5 7 being a wimpy little bullet that couldn't possibly be effective, is simply wrong and not based on fact.


You are indeed arguing that, and you've just posted a bunch of links that don't refute anything.



The 5.7 at worst under penetrates, at best does the same as any other handgun round.



"After reading all of that you can make an informed decision about the 5.7. That is pretty much how I learned about this round."

Yea, been down this road before on this site. Nothing of what you posted is ground breaking.



As I said, the 5.7 rounds are bound by the same physics as everything else.

Totally agree with everything you are saying. I'm still just surprised how big the 27gr bullet actually is.

The proper bullet to compare the 5.7 to is the 9mm FMJ.  That is what it was intended to replace.

And, if you take into account body armor, it was reasonably successful, at least in the P90.

Is it's terminal performance actually superior to the 9mm FMJ on soft targets?  I don't know, and that is really like deciding which is the prettiest horse at the glue factory.

If I recall correctly, the aluminum core bullet is longer than the 5.56 M855 bullet.  So, yes, it is an extremely long bullet, especially for a handgun cartridge.

I do know that my PS90 is a chick magnet.  Maybe it is all those old StarGate tv shows.

So, even if I give you every benefit of the doubt (which I don't, but let's play a hypothetical), what we have here is a round that, at its best, performs like a 115-gr 9mm slug, and at its worst, much less than that.  

All that wonderful performance, and all I need is to spend enough money to buy two Glocks and twice the 9mm ammo.  Yay!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLGarHgm4YU

I've wanted to retest ss198 as that penetration seemed really low

What about hand loading this cartridge with Barnes or other premium type .224" bullet?

It's the Pedersen problem - the cases are Teflon coated to aid extraction.  Once that coating is worn, or scratched, it's not as effective.  So you're going to consume quite a bit of new brass, if I understand correctly.

4-5 is the normal amount of times you can reload 5.7 cases if you know what you're doing.

Not really, the coating is quite strong and you can get a lot of reloads before it comes off. I usually lose the brass long before it wears out. I don't find 5.7x28 any harder to reload than 5.56. The problem seems to be people relate 5.7 to a handgun caliber, but it is really just a tiny rifle cartridge and with that, the proper reloading procedures must be followed. The brass has to be trimmed constantly and cases need to be lubed. It is a bit of a PITA to deal with the tiny cases though