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Posted: 9/11/2015 2:10:58 PM EDT
[#1]
I love Hornady, but HST is by far a better round than TAP. Critical Duty is also very good if looking to stick with Hornady. As far as actual bullet design, they are not the same.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 7:09:03 PM EDT
[#2]
All the above work about the same, and about the same as 230 FMJ, in the real world of street survival.
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:48:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
My Glock 30 and my Colt XSE like .45 230 gr. +P TAP. By far the most accurate in these two. My other 1911's do well with Gold Dots. I'm down to my last few rounds of TAP though. I emailed Hornady and asked them if a comparable round is available. They were not helpful. Anyone know if the HST round is close to the TAP as far as bullet design? HST has good accuracy in 45, and expansion is very good. Hornady still loads the xtp bullet in its Custom line, same velocity. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:26:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All the above work about the same, and about the same as 230 FMJ, in the real world of street survival. Real world of street survival? Lol okay. While all handguns with proper ammunition perform similarly, this does not mean that FMJ also performs the same. Don't spew that garbage to someone asking a legitimate question. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 2:10:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Real world of street survival? Lol okay. While all handguns with proper ammunition perform similarly, this does not mean that FMJ also performs the same. Don't spew that garbage to someone asking a legitimate question. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All the above work about the same, and about the same as 230 FMJ, in the real world of street survival. Real world of street survival? Lol okay. While all handguns with proper ammunition perform similarly, this does not mean that FMJ also performs the same. Don't spew that garbage to someone asking a legitimate question. I'm not going to spew garbage. Unlike most shooters, I've actually studied this stuff.. I've talked with MEs and ER doctors, examined the photos, seen a number of bullets pulled from dead folks. You can't tell from entrance, wound track or exit whether the bullet was a dollar a shot "premium hollow point" or a FMJ. And when hollow points do stay in the body, a rare event, they exhibit a bit of nose deformation and maybe a bit of jacket shedding. Mostly they just look beat up a bit. OP can pay his money and take his choice. But handgun bullet expansion is mostly a myth. TAP, Critical Defense, Black Talon, it's all marketing hype. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 7:45:54 AM EDT
[#6]
That's funny, I've studied this as well. So has almost every major police agency in the country. There's this Federal one that studied it pretty heavy too. They say you are full of shit. I've seen plenty of bullets pulled from formerly breathing humans. FMJ rarely transfers all of its energy into soft mediums such as muscle. Hollow points have shown time and time again to transfer more energy into fleshy things like people. They are not perfect, but they are far superior to ball.
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Posted: 9/13/2015 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not going to spew garbage. Unlike most shooters, I've actually studied this stuff.. I've talked with MEs and ER doctors, examined the photos, seen a number of bullets pulled from dead folks. You can't tell from entrance, wound track or exit whether the bullet was a dollar a shot "premium hollow point" or a FMJ. And when hollow points do stay in the body, a rare event, they exhibit a bit of nose deformation and maybe a bit of jacket shedding. Mostly they just look beat up a bit. OP can pay his money and take his choice. But handgun bullet expansion is mostly a myth. TAP, Critical Defense, Black Talon, it's all marketing hype. You've been refuted multiple times here and you still want to keep pushing it? My cousin's a carpenter, he wants to measure that chip on your shoulder... |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 12:46:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Refuted?
No, just contradicted. If carrying "premium" jhp makes one more confident, then they're worth the price. I'll pass. What are we to believe, internet opinion or our lying eyes? |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:21:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Refuted? No, just contradicted. If carrying "premium" jhp makes one more confident, then they're worth the price. I'll pass. What are we to believe, internet opinion or our lying eyes? You have some weapons grade wrong ideas. I'm in them medical field, I also follow the study of terminal ballistics and wounding mechanisms. Quality Modern JHP's do expand and penetrate well in 9mm, 40, and 45. To disagree is to refute scientific findings. If you end up in a shooting and your cheaper, good enough FMJ's over penetrate and hit an innocent; you will have a bad time. My ignore list was empty. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:28:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Refuted? No, just contradicted. If carrying "premium" jhp makes one more confident, then they're worth the price. I'll pass. What are we to believe, internet opinion or our lying eyes? I have worked as an investigator for the State ME and been an assistant county coroner. I have personally removed bullets from bodies and my best friend is a firearms examiner in a state crime lab. He has seen the terminal performance of all the typical HP rounds issued to LE in Multiple OIS as well as those used by civilians. My experience and his he has shared with me say you are wrong. Period. But you keep living your dream. I'll keep carrying Gold Dots. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 1:57:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have worked as an investigator for the State ME and been an assistant county coroner. I have personally removed bullets from bodies and my best friend is a firearms examiner in a state crime lab. He has seen the terminal performance of all the typical HP rounds issued to LE in Multiple OIS as well as those used by civilians. My experience and his he has shared with me say you are wrong. Period. But you keep living your dream. I'll keep carrying Gold Dots. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Refuted? No, just contradicted. If carrying "premium" jhp makes one more confident, then they're worth the price. I'll pass. What are we to believe, internet opinion or our lying eyes? I have worked as an investigator for the State ME and been an assistant county coroner. I have personally removed bullets from bodies and my best friend is a firearms examiner in a state crime lab. He has seen the terminal performance of all the typical HP rounds issued to LE in Multiple OIS as well as those used by civilians. My experience and his he has shared with me say you are wrong. Period. But you keep living your dream. I'll keep carrying Gold Dots.  .. What I do appreciate is that Gold Dot and most premium SD/LE rounds do not suffer jacket separation like cheap stuff, though I've seen cases where the jacket that shedded upon impact ended up slicing an aorta or just making a really nasty wound. Of course you don't get good penetration when that happens. I say buy a good bonded round, practice, and make sure you always carry. |
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Posted: 9/13/2015 6:45:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All the above work about the same, and about the same as 230 FMJ, in the real world of street survival. Bless your heart. |
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Posted: 9/14/2015 1:34:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All the above work about the same, and about the same as 230 FMJ, in the real world of street survival. Your stupidity is not really funny,particularly in a tech forum. Why don't you try "general discussion" forum and state your gospel there? I promise to follow you there. |
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Posted: 9/18/2015 9:38:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Thanks for all the input! I tried Gold Dots, they work well in all of my 1911's except my Colt Lightweight Commander. The last round in any of my magazines jams nose high hanging up on the top of the chamber. The big brown truck just delivered boxes of the following: Hornady XTP, Federal HST and Remington Golden Saber to try at my next range session.
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Posted: 9/19/2015 1:07:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for all the input! I tried Gold Dots, they work well in all of my 1911's except my Colt Lightweight Commander. The last round in any of my magazines jams nose high hanging up on the top of the chamber. The big brown truck just delivered boxes of the following: Hornady XTP, Federal HST and Remington Golden Saber to try at my next range session. What brand of mags? |
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Posted: 9/19/2015 4:00:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What brand of mags? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for all the input! I tried Gold Dots, they work well in all of my 1911's except my Colt Lightweight Commander. The last round in any of my magazines jams nose high hanging up on the top of the chamber. The big brown truck just delivered boxes of the following: Hornady XTP, Federal HST and Remington Golden Saber to try at my next range session. What brand of mags? Colt, Ruger and Chip Power mags |
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Posted: 9/29/2015 12:00:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Not that there's anything wrong with HST but, This should be very close to TAP.
https://www.underwoodammo.com/45-acp-p-230-grain-xtp-jacketed-hollow-point/ |
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Posted: 9/29/2015 9:44:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Also, Black Hills loads the XTP bullet in standard and +p loadings. Saw some at Cabelas the other day.
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