User Panel
Posted: 7/1/2015 10:28:37 AM EDT
Just picked up a new s&w shield in 9mm. What seems to work the best for range and self defense. I need to start stock piling.
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My Shield eats any ammo I feed it. So far, I have had only two fail to feed with steel case Tulammo. Everything else has been perfect. So here is my list of ammo that works really well for me:
FMJ: Sellier & Bellot 115 gr. <-- favorite (has very similar feel to HST 124gr) CCI Blazer Brass 115gr Perfecta 115gr Federal 115gr Aguilla 124gr Armscor 124gr (recent experience only 100 rounds fired, but I like that this also feels like HST) Federal Flat-nose 147gr Remington UMC 147gr HP: Federal HST 124gr <-- favorite Federal HST 147gr <-- favorite Winchester Ranger -T 147gr Speer/CCI Gold Dot 124gr (quit carrying this in my Shield after seeing STB410's test) I've shot other ammo (like Fiocchi, Winchester WWB, Speer Lawman, etc.), but not as much as the brands/type above. Like I said, the Shield isn't really temperamental in my experience, so I don't think you have much to worry about |
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snip.... Speer/CCI Gold Dot 124gr (quit carrying this in my Shield after seeing STB410's test) Link? Details? The test showed a failure to expand because the velocities were too low from a 3" barrel. Tests done by others using 4 inch and longer barrels show that this ammo is great. I do use it in my full size S&W M&P 9 (4.25" barrel) and my 9mm SBR (4.5" barrel). This is great ammo but not for the Shield. You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain Note that the +P version of the GD 124gr ammo did perform better than the standard pressure ammo from a 3" barrel. I don't use +P ammo if I can avoid it to reduce wear and tear on the gun and also to avoid the additional recoil (I admit, I sometimes have trouble feeling a big difference between +P and standard pressure rounds). You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain +P |
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i carry double tap +p 115 gr jhp, they are loaded with speed gold dot bullets, no issues, as for target ammo? what ever cheap? umc, american eagle, blazer brass, haven't had any issues with either
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Range = fed champion 115 gr redbox - $28 pr 100 at Wal-Mart
SD = federal hst 147 gr Speer gold dot 124 gr short barrel Never had a ftf or fte in over 1000 rounds fired |
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Thank you for the replies. Thats a pretty good short list to get started.
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Self Defense
Winchester Ranger-T 147 grain Speer Gold Dot, 147 grain Winchester Ranger-B 147 grain Federal HST 147 grain. The differences between these are marginal, and all meet the FBI test protocol. |
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The test showed a failure to expand because the velocities were too low from a 3" barrel. Tests done by others using 4 inch and longer barrels show that this ammo is great. I do use it in my full size S&W M&P 9 (4.25" barrel) and my 9mm SBR (4.5" barrel). This is great ammo but not for the Shield. You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain Note that the +P version of the GD 124gr ammo did perform better than the standard pressure ammo from a 3" barrel. I don't use +P ammo if I can avoid it to reduce wear and tear on the gun and also to avoid the additional recoil (I admit, I sometimes have trouble feeling a big difference between +P and standard pressure rounds). You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain +P View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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snip.... Speer/CCI Gold Dot 124gr (quit carrying this in my Shield after seeing STB410's test) Link? Details? The test showed a failure to expand because the velocities were too low from a 3" barrel. Tests done by others using 4 inch and longer barrels show that this ammo is great. I do use it in my full size S&W M&P 9 (4.25" barrel) and my 9mm SBR (4.5" barrel). This is great ammo but not for the Shield. You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain Note that the +P version of the GD 124gr ammo did perform better than the standard pressure ammo from a 3" barrel. I don't use +P ammo if I can avoid it to reduce wear and tear on the gun and also to avoid the additional recoil (I admit, I sometimes have trouble feeling a big difference between +P and standard pressure rounds). You Tube 9mm Ammo Quest Speer GD 124 grain +P interesting thanks! |
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Shooting the Bull 410 did a video series: 9mm Ammo Quest, where he tested a bunch of different defensive ammo in a sub-compact handgun (3" barrel). These tests applies to the S&W M&P Shield. He went through a lot of work to make sure the tests complied to the FBI and IWBA testing standards. I am grateful that he did all that because I don't have the resources to do that testing myself. One of the interesting quantitative measures he posts on each test is the MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor or WTI. I'm not sure that WTI has any correlation to real-world ammo effectiveness, but he has also posted a description of WTI and what it means. Some of you may find it interesting. It was for me: MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor
Here is the WTI for some of the ammo I have purchased and shot from my Shield. They all shoot well with no malfunctions after at least firing 100 rounds of each (300 or more for the ones I carry): Bigger number the better: Federal HST 124gr +P -------- 41.74 WTI Federal HST 124gr ------------- 41.38 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield most of the time Federal HST 147gr +P --------- 45.75 WTI Federal HST 147gr ------------- 46.59 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield when I can find some Winchester Defend 147gr ---- 35.13 WTI Winchester Ranger-T 147gr -- 40.63 WTI <--- I have about 500 rounds of this (I wouldn't have any issues carrying this ammo) ETA: these numbers are applicable to the ballistics from a handgun with 3" barrels (like the Shield) |
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Federal 9BP. $17 / 50 rounds. Works the same on the street as the dollar-a-shot hotdog stuff.
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Winchester Defend 147gr. does good in the gel tests. View Quote This, IMHO, is the correct answer. Train and Defend is a brilliant concept. watch this Shot placement trumps everything and anything... Now you can truly train with what you fight with. Seems like a no brainer to me. |
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Shooting the Bull 410 did a video series: 9mm Ammo Quest, where he tested a bunch of different defensive ammo in a sub-compact handgun (3" barrel). These tests applies to the S&W M&P Shield. He went through a lot of work to make sure the tests complied to the FBI and IWBA testing standards. I am grateful that he did all that because I don't have the resources to do that testing myself. One of the interesting quantitative measures he posts on each test is the MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor or WTI. I'm not sure that WTI has any correlation to real-world ammo effectiveness, but he has also posted a description of WTI and what it means. Some of you may find it interesting. It was for me: MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor Here is the WTI for some of the ammo I have purchased and shot from my Shield. They all shoot well with no malfunctions after at least firing 100 rounds of each (300 or more for the ones I carry): Bigger number the better: Federal HST 124gr +P -------- 41.74 WTI Federal HST 124gr ------------- 41.38 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield most of the time Federal HST 147gr +P --------- 45.75 WTI Federal HST 147gr ------------- 46.59 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield when I can find some Winchester Defend 147gr ---- 35.13 WTI Winchester Ranger-T 147gr -- 40.63 WTI <--- I have about 500 rounds of this (I wouldn't have any issues carrying this ammo) ETA: these numbers are applicable to the ballistics from a handgun with 3" barrels (like the Shield) View Quote It doesn't. WTI is a statistic without any relation to the real world. Service caliber handgun bullets all work the same on the street. They incapacitate by poking holes. Handgun bullets seldom expand and when they do you see irregular expansion and lots of jacket shedding. Handgun bullets almost always penetrate the body completely, no matter what kind of bullet or who made it. Carry a .38 Spl or 9mm and you're as well-armed as anybody. Load it up with anything, even FMJ works about as well, or as poorly, as any of the big-dollar ultra-hyped wonder-bullets. Shot placement is everything. Gel testing is misleading. Statistics are irrelevant. Handgun bullet design and caliber are almost nothing. |
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It doesn't. WTI is a statistic without any relation to the real world. Service caliber handgun bullets all work the same on the street. They incapacitate by poking holes. Handgun bullets seldom expand and when they do you see irregular expansion and lots of jacket shedding. Handgun bullets almost always penetrate the body completely, no matter what kind of bullet or who made it. Carry a .38 Spl or 9mm and you're as well-armed as anybody. Load it up with anything, even FMJ works about as well, or as poorly, as any of the big-dollar ultra-hyped wonder-bullets. Shot placement is everything. Gel testing is misleading. Statistics are irrelevant. Handgun bullet design and caliber are almost nothing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Shooting the Bull 410 did a video series: 9mm Ammo Quest, where he tested a bunch of different defensive ammo in a sub-compact handgun (3" barrel). These tests applies to the S&W M&P Shield. He went through a lot of work to make sure the tests complied to the FBI and IWBA testing standards. I am grateful that he did all that because I don't have the resources to do that testing myself. One of the interesting quantitative measures he posts on each test is the MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor or WTI. I'm not sure that WTI has any correlation to real-world ammo effectiveness, but he has also posted a description of WTI and what it means. Some of you may find it interesting. It was for me: MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor Here is the WTI for some of the ammo I have purchased and shot from my Shield. They all shoot well with no malfunctions after at least firing 100 rounds of each (300 or more for the ones I carry): Bigger number the better: Federal HST 124gr +P -------- 41.74 WTI Federal HST 124gr ------------- 41.38 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield most of the time Federal HST 147gr +P --------- 45.75 WTI Federal HST 147gr ------------- 46.59 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield when I can find some Winchester Defend 147gr ---- 35.13 WTI Winchester Ranger-T 147gr -- 40.63 WTI <--- I have about 500 rounds of this (I wouldn't have any issues carrying this ammo) ETA: these numbers are applicable to the ballistics from a handgun with 3" barrels (like the Shield) It doesn't. WTI is a statistic without any relation to the real world. Service caliber handgun bullets all work the same on the street. They incapacitate by poking holes. Handgun bullets seldom expand and when they do you see irregular expansion and lots of jacket shedding. Handgun bullets almost always penetrate the body completely, no matter what kind of bullet or who made it. Carry a .38 Spl or 9mm and you're as well-armed as anybody. Load it up with anything, even FMJ works about as well, or as poorly, as any of the big-dollar ultra-hyped wonder-bullets. Shot placement is everything. Gel testing is misleading. Statistics are irrelevant. Handgun bullet design and caliber are almost nothing. Did I get lost and wander into GD or something? Almost nothing you posted is true. Shot placement is a given, but it's not the only thing. If it were, nobody would bother carrying anything more than a .22, yet you recommend a .38 or 9mm. The problem with the shot placement argument is that it relies on the single most falliable variable in the scenario, the shooter. To the OP's question, anything from the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger line in 124gr and up will serve you well. |
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My Shield eats all practice ammo.
It also eats my carry ammo(147Gr HST). Just rotated my carry ammo out on the 3rd by putting it down range. Loaded up with fresh HST. |
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Did I get lost and wander into GD or something? Almost nothing you posted is true. Shot placement is a given, but it's not the only thing. If it were, nobody would bother carrying anything more than a .22, yet you recommend a .38 or 9mm. The problem with the shot placement argument is that it relies on the single most falliable variable in the scenario, the shooter. To the OP's question, anything from the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger line in 124gr and up will serve you well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Shooting the Bull 410 did a video series: 9mm Ammo Quest, where he tested a bunch of different defensive ammo in a sub-compact handgun (3" barrel). These tests applies to the S&W M&P Shield. He went through a lot of work to make sure the tests complied to the FBI and IWBA testing standards. I am grateful that he did all that because I don't have the resources to do that testing myself. One of the interesting quantitative measures he posts on each test is the MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor or WTI. I'm not sure that WTI has any correlation to real-world ammo effectiveness, but he has also posted a description of WTI and what it means. Some of you may find it interesting. It was for me: MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor Here is the WTI for some of the ammo I have purchased and shot from my Shield. They all shoot well with no malfunctions after at least firing 100 rounds of each (300 or more for the ones I carry): Bigger number the better: Federal HST 124gr +P -------- 41.74 WTI Federal HST 124gr ------------- 41.38 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield most of the time Federal HST 147gr +P --------- 45.75 WTI Federal HST 147gr ------------- 46.59 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield when I can find some Winchester Defend 147gr ---- 35.13 WTI Winchester Ranger-T 147gr -- 40.63 WTI <--- I have about 500 rounds of this (I wouldn't have any issues carrying this ammo) ETA: these numbers are applicable to the ballistics from a handgun with 3" barrels (like the Shield) It doesn't. WTI is a statistic without any relation to the real world. Service caliber handgun bullets all work the same on the street. They incapacitate by poking holes. Handgun bullets seldom expand and when they do you see irregular expansion and lots of jacket shedding. Handgun bullets almost always penetrate the body completely, no matter what kind of bullet or who made it. Carry a .38 Spl or 9mm and you're as well-armed as anybody. Load it up with anything, even FMJ works about as well, or as poorly, as any of the big-dollar ultra-hyped wonder-bullets. Shot placement is everything. Gel testing is misleading. Statistics are irrelevant. Handgun bullet design and caliber are almost nothing. Did I get lost and wander into GD or something? Almost nothing you posted is true. Shot placement is a given, but it's not the only thing. If it were, nobody would bother carrying anything more than a .22, yet you recommend a .38 or 9mm. The problem with the shot placement argument is that it relies on the single most falliable variable in the scenario, the shooter. To the OP's question, anything from the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger line in 124gr and up will serve you well. Actually a .22 or .25 would be the best possible self-defense handgun. High capacity, almost zero recoil, super-fast follow up shots. the trouble with those small rounds is lack of penetration. If the little bullet runs out of steam or is deflected by a bone before it gets to the vitals, it's not going to get the job done. So you carry something that will penetrate yet is still controllable, and it so happens that for most people, that's a .38 or a 9mm. Everything I posted turns out to be correct, if you study the problem from the standpoint of anatomy. |
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Actually a .22 or .25 would be the best possible self-defense handgun. High capacity, almost zero recoil, super-fast follow up shots. the trouble with those small rounds is lack of penetration. If the little bullet runs out of steam or is deflected by a bone before it gets to the vitals, it's not going to get the job done. So you carry something that will penetrate yet is still controllable, and it so happens that for most people, that's a .38 or a 9mm. Everything I posted turns out to be correct, if you study the problem from the standpoint of anatomy. Shot placement does indeed rely on the fallible element, i.e. the shooter; but shot placement is almost everything. What shooters worry about, viz., caliber, bullet weight, velocity, bullet design, energy transfer, "stopping power," is without foundation in real shootings. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:
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Shooting the Bull 410 did a video series: 9mm Ammo Quest, where he tested a bunch of different defensive ammo in a sub-compact handgun (3" barrel). These tests applies to the S&W M&P Shield. He went through a lot of work to make sure the tests complied to the FBI and IWBA testing standards. I am grateful that he did all that because I don't have the resources to do that testing myself. One of the interesting quantitative measures he posts on each test is the MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor or WTI. I'm not sure that WTI has any correlation to real-world ammo effectiveness, but he has also posted a description of WTI and what it means. Some of you may find it interesting. It was for me: MacPherson Wound Trauma Incapacitation Factor Here is the WTI for some of the ammo I have purchased and shot from my Shield. They all shoot well with no malfunctions after at least firing 100 rounds of each (300 or more for the ones I carry): Bigger number the better: Federal HST 124gr +P -------- 41.74 WTI Federal HST 124gr ------------- 41.38 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield most of the time Federal HST 147gr +P --------- 45.75 WTI Federal HST 147gr ------------- 46.59 WTI <--- I carry this in my Shield when I can find some Winchester Defend 147gr ---- 35.13 WTI Winchester Ranger-T 147gr -- 40.63 WTI <--- I have about 500 rounds of this (I wouldn't have any issues carrying this ammo) ETA: these numbers are applicable to the ballistics from a handgun with 3" barrels (like the Shield) It doesn't. WTI is a statistic without any relation to the real world. Service caliber handgun bullets all work the same on the street. They incapacitate by poking holes. Handgun bullets seldom expand and when they do you see irregular expansion and lots of jacket shedding. Handgun bullets almost always penetrate the body completely, no matter what kind of bullet or who made it. Carry a .38 Spl or 9mm and you're as well-armed as anybody. Load it up with anything, even FMJ works about as well, or as poorly, as any of the big-dollar ultra-hyped wonder-bullets. Shot placement is everything. Gel testing is misleading. Statistics are irrelevant. Handgun bullet design and caliber are almost nothing. Did I get lost and wander into GD or something? Almost nothing you posted is true. Shot placement is a given, but it's not the only thing. If it were, nobody would bother carrying anything more than a .22, yet you recommend a .38 or 9mm. The problem with the shot placement argument is that it relies on the single most falliable variable in the scenario, the shooter. To the OP's question, anything from the HST, Gold Dot, or Ranger line in 124gr and up will serve you well. Actually a .22 or .25 would be the best possible self-defense handgun. High capacity, almost zero recoil, super-fast follow up shots. the trouble with those small rounds is lack of penetration. If the little bullet runs out of steam or is deflected by a bone before it gets to the vitals, it's not going to get the job done. So you carry something that will penetrate yet is still controllable, and it so happens that for most people, that's a .38 or a 9mm. Everything I posted turns out to be correct, if you study the problem from the standpoint of anatomy. Shot placement does indeed rely on the fallible element, i.e. the shooter; but shot placement is almost everything. What shooters worry about, viz., caliber, bullet weight, velocity, bullet design, energy transfer, "stopping power," is without foundation in real shootings. |
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I'm pretty happy with Federal HST 147 for my 9's and Federal HST 180s for my .40s.
They have a good record of effective us and their "stats" seem to consistantly show good penetration and expansion BIGGER_HAMMER |
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Suggest Speer Gold Dot 124gr either the +P or non +P version
Also the Hornady Flex Tip 135gr Critical Duty...........most excellent! |
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I really like the short barrel ammo quest videos on youtube. I know all of his work doesn't mean anything in the real world, shit can happen differently but at least you can see how bullets perform and get an idea.
That being said. I plan on carrying Federal HST or Winchester Defend. If I can ever find some. For now it will be hydrashoks because I haven't found any other decent ammo in stock. My shield eats anything I have fed it. Only thing I have noticed is with cheap little 115 grain plinker rounds sometimes the slide doesn't lock back on the last shot. Could be me, could be the ammo, could be the gun but that is all I have had trouble with. |
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Range - Wolf 115gr "military classic"
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=AW9FMJ115&name=WPA+(WOLF)+9mm+115grn+FMJ+50rd+Box&groupid=46 Carry - 147gr Gold-Dot or Federal HST |
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I use Federal white box 115gr for target practice mostly, or reloads.
For SD I carry Federal HST 124gr +P in my Shield, and 147gr in all my other pistols. I also use Winchester Ranger Talons, but believe the HST has proven to be slightly more reliable at expansion. |
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