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Posted: 2/1/2014 5:52:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Don't know...But you should research exactly how setback effects pressure or rather doesn't effect it in real life.
Don't believe everything you hear on a gun forum. What kind of setback are you seeing? Only measured or half way in the case? They will shoot fine for range ammo if you don't want to carry them, no need to throw the rds away. |
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Posted: 2/1/2014 6:00:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Hornady's Critical Duty has a crimped cannelure that helps prevent bullet setback. I rechambered a 9mm CD 25 times before measurable setback (.01").
Tomac |
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Posted: 2/1/2014 6:00:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Lacquer will NOT do anything to prevent setback.
Good luck with that thought. 
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Posted: 2/1/2014 10:22:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
And yes I do have a setback problem . Stop unloading it all the time. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 2/1/2014 10:25:20 PM EDT
[#5]
lacquer won't help any more than a good crimp will.
i just chamber my rounds carefully when loading it up for the day. no setback, confirmed with a micrometer. 9mm ranger t in a G19 |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 4:04:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Why are you loading and unloading your carry piece on a daily basis?
When my G19 leaves my person, it goes directly into a lock-box, without messing with the mag or the round in the chamber. I really don't understand why people feel a need to administratively unload their daily carry piece every night only to load it again in the morning. If your gun is in proper working condition then leaving it loaded and secured with the muzzle pointed in the safest direction is just as safe as CC. |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 6:35:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are you loading and unloading your carry piece on a daily basis? When my G19 leaves my person, it goes directly into a lock-box, without messing with the mag or the round in the chamber. I really don't understand why people feel a need to administratively unload their daily carry piece every night only to load it again in the morning. If your gun is in proper working condition then leaving it loaded and secured with the muzzle pointed in the safest direction is just as safe as CC. Well simply because I don't get dressed right away every morning so I don't want a loaded gun sitting around with my child. A lock box sounds nice and all, but I haven't seen one in a store yet that didn't look like a piece of Chinese tin with a piss poor lock on it, feel free to suggest one though. |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 11:57:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are you loading and unloading your carry piece on a daily basis? When my G19 leaves my person, it goes directly into a lock-box, without messing with the mag or the round in the chamber. I really don't understand why people feel a need to administratively unload their daily carry piece every night only to load it again in the morning. If your gun is in proper working condition then leaving it loaded and secured with the muzzle pointed in the safest direction is just as safe as CC. It's a part of function-checking my gun, clearing any clothes lint or dust that might have gotten in somehow throughout the course of daily carry and applying oil if necessary. Better to check that it's functioning optimally every morning than neglect it and increase the likelihood of malfunction because I couldn't take a few moments to perform routine maintenance. YMMV |
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Posted: 2/2/2014 12:32:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lacquer will NOT do anything to prevent setback. Good luck with that thought. Oh I would love to hear your explanation on this. |
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Posted: 2/3/2014 4:17:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well simply because I don't get dressed right away every morning so I don't want a loaded gun sitting around with my child. A lock box sounds nice and all, but I haven't seen one in a store yet that didn't look like a piece of Chinese tin with a piss poor lock on it, feel free to suggest one though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why are you loading and unloading your carry piece on a daily basis? When my G19 leaves my person, it goes directly into a lock-box, without messing with the mag or the round in the chamber. I really don't understand why people feel a need to administratively unload their daily carry piece every night only to load it again in the morning. If your gun is in proper working condition then leaving it loaded and secured with the muzzle pointed in the safest direction is just as safe as CC. Well simply because I don't get dressed right away every morning so I don't want a loaded gun sitting around with my child. A lock box sounds nice and all, but I haven't seen one in a store yet that didn't look like a piece of Chinese tin with a piss poor lock on it, feel free to suggest one though. This is what I use. I have it bolted to the inside of a cabinet and behind it is a file cabinet with ~24" of paper making it the safest direction for the muzzle. It will not keep a determined thief from stealing it (if he has the time) but it does keep children and unauthorized adults from gaining access. They run ~$100 depending on the model. 
On a monthly basis (minimum) my carry gun goes to the range and I empty the magazine, first thing, while doing holster drills. My CC piece is then cleaned, reloaded with fresh ammuntion and goes back into the holster, ready to go. ETA- Mine is NOT the biometric model. I use the push button code model. |
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Posted: 2/3/2014 12:26:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag?
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Posted: 2/3/2014 4:04:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag? all due respect, israeli carry is retarded |
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Posted: 2/4/2014 11:13:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all due respect, israeli carry is retarded Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag? all due respect, israeli carry is retarded That's one hell of a first post, huh? 
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Posted: 2/6/2014 8:57:43 AM EDT
[#14]
Whenever I need to unload / reload, I ride the slide forward, I don't let it drop. I have yet to have any issues with setback, confirmed with calipers.
Lacquer will not help your setback issue. Applying more of a crimp than those rounds already have will actually worsen the problem. Overcrimped rounds can be looser than uncrimped rounds. |
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Posted: 2/6/2014 9:08:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I would love to hear your explanation on this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lacquer will NOT do anything to prevent setback. Good luck with that thought. Oh I would love to hear your explanation on this. Think about it for a second, the way a round is constructed. Now, picture a round setting back in the case. The important resultant force is the bullet being pushed directly rearward in to the case. (In this case, other forces don't matter). The only thing a lacquer will do to prevent the round actually sliding back in the case is provide a 0.0005 - 0.001" thick "ledge" of a hard material. This is not going to solve your problem, as the force needed to set a bullet back in a defense round is plenty to overcome a little lacquer. Coating your rounds with anything thicker than a half thousandth or so now introduces possible feeding and extraction problems. Ride your slide forward, don't let it slam forward. Letting it slam can cause setback if done repeatedly, and I've heard legends that it can cause issues with the priming compounds becoming loose, though I have no solid evidence of that. Confirm you are in battery, and holster. |
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Posted: 2/8/2014 4:44:55 PM EDT
[#16]
Lacquer? Clothes lint? This is one of the funniest threads I've read in a while.
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Posted: 2/8/2014 8:26:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I would love to hear your explanation on this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lacquer will NOT do anything to prevent setback. Good luck with that thought. Oh I would love to hear your explanation on this. Lacquer used on primers and bullets is intended to do WHAT??? hint: Has nothing to do with preventing bullet 'setback' or holding the primer in place more securely... |
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Posted: 2/9/2014 12:02:19 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all due respect, israeli carry is retarded Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag? all due respect, israeli carry is retarded So is the idea of applying lacquer in an attempt to prevent bullet setback. |
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Posted: 2/9/2014 12:56:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is the idea of applying lacquer in an attempt to prevent bullet setback. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag? all due respect, israeli carry is retarded So is the idea of applying lacquer in an attempt to prevent bullet setback. All of the above. Lol 
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Posted: 2/9/2014 12:56:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Luv this thread so far!
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Posted: 2/9/2014 1:08:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Yep, this is a good one. I don't recall the last time I unloaded my carry gun.
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Posted: 2/9/2014 4:27:50 AM EDT
[#22]
You know, I didn't expect an award for a wonderful idea, but I didn't post anything worse than the other ideas.
I am going to try lock tight and see what happens. |
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Posted: 2/9/2014 10:59:13 AM EDT
[#23]
What ammo are you using? I've never had a problem with setback using quality carry ammo.
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Posted: 2/9/2014 10:04:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, I didn't expect an award for a wonderful idea, but I didn't post anything worse than the other ideas. I am going to try lock tight and see what happens. So you are worried about a pressure spike caused by bullet setback, which is really not an issue until it becomes extreme, but not about the possible pressure spike from gluing the bullets into the cases? Just ride the damn slide ahead, double check that you are in battery, and go. Lots of other potential issues too, such as head spacing, your choice of adhesive gumming up the chamber, etc. The lacquer you see on some factory ammo is weather sealant, not designed to retain the bullet. |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 3:34:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you are worried about a pressure spike caused by bullet setback, which is really not an issue until it becomes extreme, but not about the possible pressure spike from gluing the bullets into the cases? Just ride the damn slide ahead, double check that you are in battery, and go. Lots of other potential issues too, such as head spacing, your choice of adhesive gumming up the chamber, etc. The lacquer you see on some factory ammo is weather sealant, not designed to retain the bullet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, I didn't expect an award for a wonderful idea, but I didn't post anything worse than the other ideas. I am going to try lock tight and see what happens. So you are worried about a pressure spike caused by bullet setback, which is really not an issue until it becomes extreme, but not about the possible pressure spike from gluing the bullets into the cases? Just ride the damn slide ahead, double check that you are in battery, and go. Lots of other potential issues too, such as head spacing, your choice of adhesive gumming up the chamber, etc. The lacquer you see on some factory ammo is weather sealant, not designed to retain the bullet. Who said I was worried about pressure spikes? One round won't gum up a chamber. Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. No shit lacquer is for moisture on bull ammo. The only thing you said that makes any sense is head spacing, |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 9:02:05 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who said I was worried about pressure spikes? One round won't gum up a chamber. Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. No shit lacquer is for moisture on bull ammo. The only thing you said that makes any sense is head spacing, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I didn't expect an award for a wonderful idea, but I didn't post anything worse than the other ideas. I am going to try lock tight and see what happens. So you are worried about a pressure spike caused by bullet setback, which is really not an issue until it becomes extreme, but not about the possible pressure spike from gluing the bullets into the cases? Just ride the damn slide ahead, double check that you are in battery, and go. Lots of other potential issues too, such as head spacing, your choice of adhesive gumming up the chamber, etc. The lacquer you see on some factory ammo is weather sealant, not designed to retain the bullet. Who said I was worried about pressure spikes? One round won't gum up a chamber. Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. No shit lacquer is for moisture on bull ammo. The only thing you said that makes any sense is head spacing, Let's all settle down. OP, for a guy with over 4K posts, you should have been around to know a few things. If you are going to get defensive, and start name calling, you probably won't get a lot of help. That said, I think you are trying to kill imaginary dragons friend. If you are incessant about racking, re racking, re re racking a round, then you just need to accept there is a limit to what you can do. every week, put a new round in. That's two boxes a year. Problem solved. At the end of the year, go shoot them. |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 10:58:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who said I was worried about pressure spikes? One round won't gum up a chamber. Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. No shit lacquer is for moisture on bull ammo. The only thing you said that makes any sense is head spacing, Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I didn't expect an award for a wonderful idea, but I didn't post anything worse than the other ideas. I am going to try lock tight and see what happens. So you are worried about a pressure spike caused by bullet setback, which is really not an issue until it becomes extreme, but not about the possible pressure spike from gluing the bullets into the cases? Just ride the damn slide ahead, double check that you are in battery, and go. Lots of other potential issues too, such as head spacing, your choice of adhesive gumming up the chamber, etc. The lacquer you see on some factory ammo is weather sealant, not designed to retain the bullet. Who said I was worried about pressure spikes? One round won't gum up a chamber. Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. No shit lacquer is for moisture on bull ammo. The only thing you said that makes any sense is head spacing, Lol ok champ. Do what you must. |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 4:42:16 PM EDT
[#28]
This is a hilarious thread. Can't tell if it is a joke or not.
Are people seriously this ignorant? |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 4:46:36 PM EDT
[#29]
 Just measure the rounds with calipers once every few times you load them, and rotate loaded rounds through the mag. Also, there's nothing wrong with riding the slide as long as you do press check.
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Posted: 2/10/2014 5:18:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a hilarious thread. Can't tell if it is a joke or not. Are people seriously this ignorant? Yes... |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 5:43:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a hilarious thread. Can't tell if it is a joke or not. Are people seriously this ignorant? Yeah, but I don't think it's me. Lock the fucking thread. |
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Posted: 2/10/2014 8:46:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Ok, so I tried to be a little bit understanding, and offer a very easy solution to your made up, imaginary, non relevant problem. All you want to do is curse, and call names. Grow up dude, and quit acting like a child. That, and put your purse up too. There are no purse fights allowed in here.
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Posted: 2/10/2014 9:28:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. |
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Posted: 2/11/2014 5:12:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. And I didn't call anyone a name. I said that the solutions offered were worthless to me, which they are. Let's go through them: Ride the slide: bad idea as stated above. Never unload you carry gun: I can't begin to understand why you wouldn't check over a gun after carrying it day after day. Rotate all the rounds: maybe, but I don't realy want to spend the time to rotated rounds every week. A good solution is one you don't have to fuck with. Just get rid of the chambered round once a week: maybe but it falls under the same comment as above. Lacquer the first couple rounds: may work or may not. Once it's done, it's done, no more to think about. A good solution is one the eliminates hassle and time, not changes it into other work or potential problems. |
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Posted: 2/11/2014 5:16:57 AM EDT
[#35]
I'd still like to know what ammo you're using because I've never had a problem with setback using quality ammo.
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Posted: 2/11/2014 5:23:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd still like to know what ammo you're using because I've never had a problem with setback using quality ammo. Point me towards FMJs in .380 and ~180s in .40 Now if everyone agrees that bullet movement in the case either back or forward is no problem at all then maybe a good solution doesn't need to exist. I don't like the idea of a bullet getting sloppy in the case though. |
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Posted: 2/11/2014 5:32:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Point me towards FMJs in .380 and ~180s in .40 Now if everyone agrees that bullet movement in the case either back or forward is no problem at all then maybe a good solution doesn't need to exist. I don't like the idea of a bullet getting sloppy in the case though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'd still like to know what ammo you're using because I've never had a problem with setback using quality ammo. Point me towards FMJs in .380 and ~180s in .40 Now if everyone agrees that bullet movement in the case either back or forward is no problem at all then maybe a good solution doesn't need to exist. I don't like the idea of a bullet getting sloppy in the case though. No experience with .380, but I've not had problems with 180 gr Winchester Ranger T, Federal HST, or Speer Gold Dot in my Glock 22 Gen 4. |
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Posted: 2/12/2014 5:03:18 PM EDT
[#38]
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Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. . You are doing it to prevent setback and NOT during a 'survival' senario or situation... Perhaps you should go buy some superglue so you can play with your bullets more 'safely' every single day??? THAT stuff is bound to work better than lacquer! LOL! 
Better yet - BUY A REVOLVER Problem solved. 
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Posted: 2/12/2014 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are doing it to prevent setback and NOT during a 'survival' senario or situation... Perhaps you should go buy some superglue so you can play with your bullets more 'safely' every single day??? THAT stuff is bound to work better than lacquer! LOL!
Better yet - BUY A REVOLVER Problem solved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. . You are doing it to prevent setback and NOT during a 'survival' senario or situation... Perhaps you should go buy some superglue so you can play with your bullets more 'safely' every single day??? THAT stuff is bound to work better than lacquer! LOL!
Better yet - BUY A REVOLVER Problem solved. My lord, that cannot be a real comment. Why the hell else would you CC? . At this point I can't believe I even asked for opinions on the matter.
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Posted: 2/12/2014 6:50:43 PM EDT
[#40]
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My lord, that cannot be a real comment. Why the hell else would you CC? . At this point I can't believe I even asked for opinions on the matter.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
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Riding the slide is a stupid idea no matter how many times you dopes say it. I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. . You are doing it to prevent setback and NOT during a 'survival' senario or situation... Perhaps you should go buy some superglue so you can play with your bullets more 'safely' every single day??? THAT stuff is bound to work better than lacquer! LOL!
Better yet - BUY A REVOLVER Problem solved. My lord, that cannot be a real comment. Why the hell else would you CC? . At this point I can't believe I even asked for opinions on the matter.When you load the gun before going out dumbass... You are WAY beyond retarded and there is NO hope. Warning sent - Eric802 |
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Posted: 2/13/2014 3:40:06 AM EDT
[#41]
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When you load the gun before going out dumbass... You are WAY beyond retarded and there is NO hope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'd like to know why riding the slide is a "stupid" idea. It seems like a good solution to me but perhaps you've thought of something I've missed or know something I don't. Because riding the slide doesn't really ensure you have loaded the round and readied properly on most firearms. Sure with a handgun it's easier to tell, but it is a horrible idea to get into the practice of babying a gun like that. . You are doing it to prevent setback and NOT during a 'survival' senario or situation... Perhaps you should go buy some superglue so you can play with your bullets more 'safely' every single day??? THAT stuff is bound to work better than lacquer! LOL!
Better yet - BUY A REVOLVER Problem solved. My lord, that cannot be a real comment. Why the hell else would you CC? . At this point I can't believe I even asked for opinions on the matter.When you load the gun before going out dumbass... You are WAY beyond retarded and there is NO hope. I really don't know what that even means. "Load the gun before going out". I am going to go out on a limb at this point and assume it not me that is the "beyond retarded" This thread has gone to shit, I am done with it. |
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Posted: 2/15/2014 3:22:50 PM EDT
[#42]
OP, you said it yourself, the best solution is "one you don't have to fuck with." That solution is leaving the pistol loaded and in the holster, rather than unloading and loading it constantly. If you need to check its condition every day to combat OCD or whatever, learn to do a press check and that should satisfy you that your weapon is, in fact, still loaded and ready to carry. You're the one adding complication where it isn't needed or wanted. Painting your ammo is a solution in search of a problem....
As far as securing the weapon when you're not wearing it, they make affordable instant open electronic safes with finger activation or even biometric (fingerprint) activation. Seems like a much better solution than loading and unloading constantly. |
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Posted: 2/21/2014 8:52:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really don't know what that even means. "Load the gun before going out". I am going to go out on a limb at this point and assume it not me that is the "beyond retarded" This thread has gone to shit, I am done with it. This really isn't that complicated. If you're prepping an unloaded gun for carry at the start of the day, it generally isn't done under stress, time pressure, or immediate threat of death or injury. Riding the slide UNDER THIS SPECIFIC ADMINISTRATIVE CIRCUMSTANCE is not an issue because you have all the time in the world to ensure that a round is chambered properly by way of both doing a press check and topping off the magazine. If you have bullet setback issues this is a perfectly viable option.
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Posted: 2/22/2014 6:42:26 AM EDT
[#44]
This is not GD.
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Posted: 2/24/2014 6:51:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
What lacquer would a guy use to his first couple rounds in the stack for daily carry to prevent setback? I don't have reloading equipment and would think lacquer by the first couple rounds would work super. And yes I do have a setback problem so I am looking for a solution besides getting rid of rounds all the time. Also I don't want to rotate all the rounds. I would rather coat the first couple since they get used all time. Black lucas is used to seal up the bullet for water proofing. Same with the Red & Blue primer sealant. I happen to like to have my SD ammo to be sealed at both ends. Cannalure is used for set back issue. like in some 5.56mm LE/Mil loads! I haven't had any set back issues ! I guess I,m lucky ! I would send Pistol to factory to see if it need some attention. or try another load. |
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Posted: 2/24/2014 6:53:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
all due respect, israeli carry is retarded Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why don't you just not carry a round in the chamber (Israeli style) and when you get home, remove and/or lock up the mag? all due respect, israeli carry is retarded I would love to have some of there training |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 4:49:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 2/28/2014 4:51:30 AM EDT
[#48]
1. Lacquer will not do a thing to prevent setback and neither will thread locker.
2. Best way to prevent gun injuries is not to fuck with them. There is no need to load and unload your gun every time you take it off or put it on. I have a seven year old and a two year old. If I'm dressed, my gun is on me. If I'm not, the gun is up high or locked up, but it's loaded. 3. There is nothing wrong with riding the slide home in a NON-STRESSFUL situation where you can verify after loading that the slide is fully in battery with a round chambered. |
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Posted: 3/27/2014 5:50:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Red locktite for the win. Three weeks now...... Can't hardly tell it's there once you wipe off the excess.
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Posted: 3/27/2014 7:33:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Folks, if you can't carry on a discussion without name calling, feel free to stay in General Discussion.
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