 Dieselman 
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Posted: 5/3/2012 1:55:00 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT Negative Positive My personal tests have shown it to work great against denim and wet phone books. However, this round gets enough bad publicity that I do not choose to carry it in favor of the 230gr variant gold dot. On paper, the energy levels of the 200 seem impressive - 1080ft/sec with 518ft/lbs energy is pretty hot, yet I have heard many say it does not penetrate deep enough to ensure hits in the vitals. And other sources say it penetrates too deep. Never have I seen such conflicting data for a handgun cartridge than this one. I personally have a hard time beliving it could be such a total flop when all the Speer Gold Dots are touted with such high regard. So what's the scoop? Is it a bad round? Is it good? |
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FAIL-SAFE
Third Boxcar, Midnight Train
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Posted: 5/3/2012 5:57:20 PM
Here's the problem. Muzzle velocity and ft/lbs are external ballistics numbers. Terminal ballistics numbers are all that matter. External ballistcs does not always, actually rarely, translate to terminal ballistics.
I watched the video you posted. What he is using is not a substitute for 10% Ordnance Gelatin. The gentleman also claims it is calibrated, but we have no way of varifying that. He has also only fired one round. These do not lend a lot of faith. The link to the "negative" is actual research done by Dr Roberts. It is done to the scientific protocol. It shows the issues the 200gr+P Speer GDHP has. For the money you could/would spend on these, you could pick a round off of the reccomended lists and press on. In the end, your money, buy what you want! |
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Posted: 5/3/2012 6:56:37 PM
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:
Here's the problem. Muzzle velocity and ft/lbs are external ballistics numbers. Terminal ballistics numbers are all that matter. External ballistcs does not always, actually rarely, translate to terminal ballistics. I watched the video you posted. What he is using is not a substitute for 10% Ordnance Gelatin. The gentleman also claims it is calibrated, but we have no way of varifying that. He has also only fired one round. These do not lend a lot of faith. The link to the "negative" is actual research done by Dr Roberts. It is done to the scientific protocol. It shows the issues the 200gr+P Speer GDHP has. For the money you could/would spend on these, you could pick a round off of the reccomended lists and press on. In the end, your money, buy what you want! I agree with you. I do carry Speer 230 grain Gold Dots based largely on a combination of my own research and that of Doc Roberts. My research has shown that the 200 and 230 basically perform about the same in terms of expansion and penetration. But because the 200 is not on the Doc's approval list and the 230's are, I carry the 230's |
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scotchymcdrinkerbean
Alcohol is my anti-drug
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Posted: 5/4/2012 1:10:36 AM
I would carry FMJ over them. Penetration to the vitals is, well, vital, and expansion, if any, is merely a helpful side effect.
200+p Gold Dots tend to penetrate fine in 4ld testing, often too much, with spotty expansion, while in BG testing they expand fine with dismal penetration. 230 regular pressure tend to penetrate fine and expand fine in both. I can't carry a .45 outside my house, but the ones in here that are loaded are loaded with 230 regular pressure Gold Dots, as would anything I carried out and about if I could, and if I chose to carry a .45. |
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NVGdude
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Posted: 5/4/2012 2:51:03 AM
The 200 grain GD has expansion problems. I've had them fail to expand when fired into bare water jugs (no denim) Obviously better than ball, but there are much better choices.
The better choice is called 230 grain. In fact other than solid copper bullets like the Barnes Hex bullet, ALL of the best SD choices are 230 grain. |
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Posted: 5/4/2012 8:56:21 AM
I'd trust Dr Robert's comprehensive testing over some goober in his back yard.
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Posted: 5/7/2012 5:01:12 PM
Is the 200gr GD the same GEN as the older Flying Ashtray?
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Posted: 5/8/2012 5:03:23 PM
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Is the 200gr GD the same GEN as the older Flying Ashtray? No, totally different. The only thing the two have in common is the fact that they are both 200 grain 200 gr. Flying Ashtray - 
200 gr. Gold Dot -  |
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Posted: 5/14/2012 8:38:05 AM
So I wonder if the Dr tested the newer 200gr GD
Also would LOVE him to test the 40S&W 200gr GD My handgun seems to like the 200 gr HP |
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TheMercenary
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
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Joined: Jul 2005 TN, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2012 2:20:30 PM
If you want a awesome .45 SD load look at the Cor-Bon DPX 185gr +P
http://www.shopcorbon.com/DPX-Handgun/45-Auto-Plus-P-185gr-DPX/DPX45185-20/200/Product I got a few boxes of this stuff a few years ago, and shortly after a large Rottweiler was on my property acting threatening. One shot broad-side center mass from my 1911 at about 50ft dropped it DRT without even taking a step. I hate having to take down a dog, but needless to say I was very impressed with the ammunition performance on such a large animal. |
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Posted: 5/29/2012 11:35:06 PM
Originally Posted By FMJ:
So I wonder if the Dr tested the newer 200gr GD Also would LOVE him to test the 40S&W 200gr GD My handgun seems to like the 200 gr HP Interesting question. I went to go buy a box of 230 Gr. GD Short Barrel, but got 200 gr. +P GD by mistake. I notice that the ogive is different than the picture posted above. The HP cavity seems to be a bit narrower and the cavity more conical inside. Also, there are seven cuts in the jacket instead of six. I'm going to try this stuff in my Kahr P45 and see what happens. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Alembic
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Posted: 5/31/2012 11:57:35 PM
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
So I wonder if the Dr tested the newer 200gr GD Also would LOVE him to test the 40S&W 200gr GD My handgun seems to like the 200 gr HP Interesting question. I went to go buy a box of 230 Gr. GD Short Barrel, but got 200 gr. +P GD by mistake. I notice that the ogive is different than the picture posted above. The HP cavity seems to be a bit narrower and the cavity more conical inside. Also, there are seven cuts in the jacket instead of six. I'm going to try this stuff in my Kahr P45 and see what happens. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Please report back––I'm looking for a good SD round for my P45 since I stopped reloading with XTPs. |
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NVGdude
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Posted: 6/1/2012 2:28:07 AM
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Please report back末I'm looking for a good SD round for my P45 since I stopped reloading with XTPs. Look no further than the 230 Grain Gold Dot. |
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Posted: 6/1/2012 5:41:30 PM
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Please report back末I'm looking for a good SD round for my P45 since I stopped reloading with XTPs. Look no further than the 230 Grain Gold Dot. I second the motion |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 1:02:43 PM
230g +P HST has the best numbers. I was a Gold Dot fan, but the 230 GD only expand to 0.711 with 13" penetration, the 230 +P HST expands to 0.98" with 12.5 inch penetration. Standard pressure 230g HST also has 0.98" expansion and 12" penetration so that would be better than Gold Dot also.
For original question, I would not use 200g as it doesn't meet the min penetration. I personally would prefer it to FMJ since it does get 10.33" penetration (pretty good chance you'll get enough to get important structures) with good expansion. Neither is ideal, but given FMJ v. 200g Gold Dot I'd chose the Gold Dot. I wouldn't want to get shot with either of them..... |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:13:43 PM
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
So I wonder if the Dr tested the newer 200gr GD Also would LOVE him to test the 40S&W 200gr GD My handgun seems to like the 200 gr HP Interesting question. I went to go buy a box of 230 Gr. GD Short Barrel, but got 200 gr. +P GD by mistake. I notice that the ogive is different than the picture posted above. The HP cavity seems to be a bit narrower and the cavity more conical inside. Also, there are seven cuts in the jacket instead of six. I'm going to try this stuff in my Kahr P45 and see what happens. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Please report back末I'm looking for a good SD round for my P45 since I stopped reloading with XTPs. I popped off a handful of rounds through the P45. Sounds about like a 12 gauge shotgun shooting slugs. They're thunderous. Seemed to be very accurate, but takes a little while before the gun comes back down. 
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Alembic
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:22:04 PM
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By FMJ:
So I wonder if the Dr tested the newer 200gr GD Also would LOVE him to test the 40S&W 200gr GD My handgun seems to like the 200 gr HP Interesting question. I went to go buy a box of 230 Gr. GD Short Barrel, but got 200 gr. +P GD by mistake. I notice that the ogive is different than the picture posted above. The HP cavity seems to be a bit narrower and the cavity more conical inside. Also, there are seven cuts in the jacket instead of six. I'm going to try this stuff in my Kahr P45 and see what happens. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Please report back末I'm looking for a good SD round for my P45 since I stopped reloading with XTPs. I popped off a handful of rounds through the P45. Sounds about like a 12 gauge shotgun shooting slugs. They're thunderous. Seemed to be very accurate, but takes a little while before the gun comes back down.
Yikes. Not sure if want. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:30:20 PM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2012 3:30:42 PM by VBC]
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Yikes. Not sure if want. I like the 230 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel the best out of the few I've tried in the P45 so far. It has a little bit of recoil too but not bad. Seems a little more recoil than 230 gr. standard loads but that just means it's getting some good acceleration out of that short barrel. My hillbilly testing has shown good permanent channel and deep penetration. It's also got good accuracy. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 10:52:33 PM
I use +P 200 Gold Dots as my carry rounds. I also use Winchester Ranger 230 grain (not +P), and I feel confidant with both.
The DR, I believe hasn't tried the newer ones? Not sure. That said, they're accurate, and flat-shooting. Any .45 hole will be better than nothing and I personally don't feel to terrible about it. Is it maybe not the best? Maybe, but I shoot them good, they got power.....why not? |
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Alembic
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Posted: 6/5/2012 11:03:17 AM
Originally Posted By VBC:
Originally Posted By Alembic:
Yikes. Not sure if want. I like the 230 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel the best out of the few I've tried in the P45 so far. It has a little bit of recoil too but not bad. Seems a little more recoil than 230 gr. standard loads but that just means it's getting some good acceleration out of that short barrel. My hillbilly testing has shown good permanent channel and deep penetration. It's also got good accuracy. Thanks, I'm more inclined to go with those. Speer products are scarce around here. I'm thinking ordering the Short Barrel and picking up some PDX-1. |
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Firebird69
Freedom is Expensive
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Posted: 6/5/2012 2:57:00 PM
If the 200 gr Gold Dots suck should I just use them as plinkers and get rid of them? I have a couple hundred rounds.
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Posted: 6/6/2012 4:20:17 PM
Originally Posted By Firebird69:
If the 200 gr Gold Dots suck should I just use them as plinkers and get rid of them? I have a couple hundred rounds. I dont think the Dr has tested the newer 200 gr GD in 45acp or in 40S&W No way to tell if it SUCKS you can go and look at Speeer geltesting at the ATK website. I think it maybe even tacked up above IF it performs as speer says? Its far from sucking. |
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