User Panel
Posted: 12/30/2015 4:31:57 PM EDT
Im thinking that may end up being me.
I have KKM's in all of my M&P's already, but I really want to try some of the semi-drop in apex barrels. Anyone here planning on ordering and fitting one? |
|
|
The testing by Randy Lee looks pretty promising. Excellent accuracy for $200.... Like you, I've been waiting for some credible reviews before pulling the trigger.
|
|
Only thing Im hung up on is having to fit the barrel.
The video makes it seem fairly straight forward so I'm likely going to give em a shot, but I'm also a little concerned about having a barrel fitted that tight in a duty weapon. May throw one in a non-duty one, test it, and then go from there. I'd also like to see how much, if any, accuracy gain there is over a KKM. |
|
I wish they were offered in black. Guess I could send one off for a melonite finish. Without hijacking the thread, could someone recommend a place to have that done?
|
|
Quoted:
Only thing Im hung up on is having to fit the barrel. The video makes it seem fairly straight forward so I'm likely going to give em a shot, but I'm also a little concerned about having a barrel fitted that tight in a duty weapon. May throw one in a non-duty one, test it, and then go from there. I'd also like to see how much, if any, accuracy gain there is over a KKM. View Quote Are the KKM's drop in? No fitting required? |
|
If you get one, go EXTREMELY slow when fitting. I fit mine yesterday and I'm not happy with it. It was nearly a drop in fit out of the box. I had to do very minor fitting to the sides of the barrel hood extension and that went perfectly. I over did it by a small amount on the length though. It's still a much tighter fit than my factory barrel but I wanted an extremely tight fit. The bottom fitting pad didn't require any fitting at all. I've decided not to keep it. As I said earlier, I don't really care for the stainless steel anyways. Wish they offered it in black.
|
|
How are you not going to keep a barrel that you already fitted?
|
|
Quoted:
If you get one, go EXTREMELY slow when fitting. I fit mine yesterday and I'm not happy with it. It was nearly a drop in fit out of the box. I had to do very minor fitting to the sides of the barrel hood extension and that went perfectly. I over did it by a small amount on the length though. It's still a much tighter fit than my factory barrel but I wanted an extremely tight fit. The bottom fitting pad didn't require any fitting at all. I've decided not to keep it. As I said earlier, I don't really care for the stainless steel anyways. Wish they offered it in black. View Quote Did you get the semi drop in version or the "gunsmith fit" one? |
|
|
Quoted:
Did you get the semi drop in version or the "gunsmith fit" one? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
If you get one, go EXTREMELY slow when fitting. I fit mine yesterday and I'm not happy with it. It was nearly a drop in fit out of the box. I had to do very minor fitting to the sides of the barrel hood extension and that went perfectly. I over did it by a small amount on the length though. It's still a much tighter fit than my factory barrel but I wanted an extremely tight fit. The bottom fitting pad didn't require any fitting at all. I've decided not to keep it. As I said earlier, I don't really care for the stainless steel anyways. Wish they offered it in black. Did you get the semi drop in version or the "gunsmith fit" one? It was the semi drop in. Watching the videos, it looks like you would need a mill to properly fit the gunsmith fit barrel. |
|
Ok.
3 done so far, two 5" and 1 4.25". All my 5's are done, and I have 2 more 4.25 barrels coming for the rest. FML spending 1k on barrels, but I trust apex and these are guns I trust my life to. I want them to be done properly. NO barrel required removal from the front of the barrel as seen as the first step in the apex video. First 5"- fitting went fine, only needed to remove material from the hood length. Width was just about perfect, and the bottom lug actually didn't have enough material to really make contact with the locking block It appears to be directly related to the slide, as swapping frames around made no difference, even when adding a brand new locking block. Good news is, I cannot detect any movement in the barrel when locked. I haven't test fired it rested for accuracy, but I was able to keep my rounds in a 4 inch 10 ring off hand at 25. With the stockers and KKM's, I was always throwing some into the 9, which if I recall is about 6". Again, this is offhand shooting. No detectable front to rear movement. After firing 300 rounds, it feels smoother when putting the barrel back in place by hand, and the barrel can come out easier, so some hard fitting is definitely done upon firing. Still, no front to rear movement at all. Minimal left to right movement since it wasn't needing of fitment out of the box. Up and down movement IS detectable, but it isn't the barrel moving. Its the entire slide/barrel assembly, and its BARELY noticeable, but I did notice that as the gun heats up, the bottom lug and the block seemed to start making contact, as the gun became a little tougher to "press check". Needed some more force to get the action open, but zero failures. During live fire, it worked great, even after doing a few mag dumps to get it pretty damn hot. My slop is about double of what the gun is capable of, so my guess is despite the bottom lug seemingly not touching (it may, kinda hard to tell), it appears that it should be about a 2 inch gun, and that was using WWB 115. The second 5" required some removal from all surfaces. The hood width was a bitch because apparently the guy who milled my slide was drunk, and the width of the slide wasn't perfect front to back. I'd remove a high spot, push it in farther, and find contact in an area that made no sense. I had to fit the barrel so that there was SOME left to right movement possible. Since this barrel had noticeable contact between the bottom lug and locking block unlike my first one, I fit it so that it won't go into battery if I ride it forward, but it will if I let the slide go, even if retracted about 1/3rd of the way. It will snap shut. I figure rather than remove too much, I will fire it and let the surfaces hard fit, and see what happens. Im worried that once it heats up, it will be near impossible to open given that my first gun with virtually no contact between those surfaces appears to make contact once heated. However, its fit appropriately according to Apex, and we will see what happens. Have not fired this one yet. No front to rear movement, minimal left to right movement despite my hilariously machined slide, and absolutely not up and down movement The 4.25 was fine left to right in all the 4.25 slides I own (3). The hood length was also longer than the 5" versions, and required more removal than the others. Lucky I have 3 slides.......... I got a little file happy. Got the barrel tight in one slide, made a few more swipes, and noticed it now dropped in easy. About as easy as the 5" one that I have fired, which "eased up" once it was fired and hard fitted so to speak. Figuring that the parts will further mate upon firing just like the previous one, I got a little nervous thinking that this one may then loosen up to the point of movement once it was fired. Luckily my VTAC slide is a little tighter *and not just due to the finish*, so I decided to leave it in the VTAC. Test fit it so that the PVD finish where the hood contacts the breech face wore away, since that finish appears thicker than the standard one, and rubs off easier. It rubbed away, and the barrel fit now as tight as it did in the previous installs, so I figured I was good there. Again, leaving it a little tighter to see what happens during firing once they hard fit together. Again, no left to right concerns since it dropped right in. Lug contact was the highest of all the barrels I've done so far, so I had to remove some material there. Fit similar to my second 5", maybe a smidge tighter. It will snap shut with the slide retracted about 3/8ths of the way, just a tad further than the second 5". I am leaving it this way, since I feel its really really close, and my guess is it will hard fit together upon firing without issue. Same general concerns about it heating up, but again I haven't had time to fire it yet, so I can't tell what will happen. Good news is, I'll be test firing at my job, where I have an indoor range and a vise. So any further fitting will be done on site, which makes life way easier for me. ALL of these barrels are remarkably tight, even my loosest ones. The barrel just simply doesn't move when locked up, even left to right, despite 2 of them dropping in without fitment to that dimension, and the one I had to remove material from with the odd slide. The slide can also now be retracted ALL the way until it unlocks without ANY top to bottom movement, even my KKM's had the ability to move down the second they were taken out of FULL battery. In short, if you're on the fence, there is absolutely NO chance that these barrels won't improve accuracy. They are tight, even when there is left to right clearance, or seemingly no contact lug/block due to S&W having such awful tolerance ranges. |
|
Just test fired the most recent two. The second 5" gun loosened up quite a bit, to the point where the hood length fitting no longer holds it in the slide when the gun is apart. My first 5" still does despite having the most rounds through it, and the VTAC is also still tight. Still no discernible fore-aft movement though so that's fine. I removed a tad from the lug on the VTAC and it now fits perfect. Still tight, but now it snaps into battery without issue, same as my other 5" guns.
Here's the bad part. Both guns had numerous failures to fire.....with ball ammo. Rounds are catching on the feed ramp just prior to making it to the chamber. Apex cut a hard angle in that portion and it's proven to be a real....hangup. Both guns were lubed and clean prior to firing. Extra lube applied to "fitted" areas to ensure no issues there. All fitting done following apex guidelines. Still FTF's. The VTAC seemed to work itself out after about 50 or so rounds, but the 5" had trouble. When it did cycle, it was notchy. You could feel the round hang up, and slow the slide, but most of the time it had enough momentum to go into battery. Still felt funky though. As of now, I don't find these barrels suitable for defensive purposes. My remaining order will be cancelled and I will be attempting to return these barrels. Oh yeah, my duty ammo doesn't pass the spin test either. It makes contacts with the lands/grooves of the rifling . Speer gold dot 124 fwiw. Accuracy seemed really good, but as of right now I simply cannot trust these barrels. No amount of fitting can solve the FTF issues nor the fact that the rifling is cut too far to the rear. |
|
Quoted:
Just test fired the most recent two. The second 5" gun loosened up quite a bit, to the point where the hood length fitting no longer holds it in the slide when the gun is apart. My first 5" still does despite having the most rounds through it, and the VTAC is also still tight. Still no discernible fore-aft movement though so that's fine. I removed a tad from the lug on the VTAC and it now fits perfect. Still tight, but now it snaps into battery without issue, same as my other 5" guns. Here's the bad part. Both guns had numerous failures to fire.....with ball ammo. Rounds are catching on the feed ramp just prior to making it to the chamber. Apex cut a hard angle in that portion and it's proven to be a real....hangup. Both guns were lubed and clean prior to firing. Extra lube applied to "fitted" areas to ensure no issues there. All fitting done following apex guidelines. Still FTF's. The VTAC seemed to work itself out after about 50 or so rounds, but the 5" had trouble. When it did cycle, it was notchy. You could feel the round hang up, and slow the slide, but most of the time it had enough momentum to go into battery. Still felt funky though. As of now, I don't find these barrels suitable for defensive purposes. My remaining order will be cancelled and I will be attempting to return these barrels. Oh yeah, my duty ammo doesn't pass the spin test either. It makes contacts with the lands/grooves of the rifling . Speer gold dot 124 fwiw. Accuracy seemed really good, but as of right now I simply cannot trust these barrels. No amount of fitting can solve the FTF issues nor the fact that the rifling is cut too far to the rear. View Quote Yikes. That's too bad, I've had other semi-custom guns that couldn't pass a spin test and I had to get them fixed. Fitting one of these shouldn't include recutting the chamber. |
|
Quoted:
Yikes. That's too bad, I've had other semi-custom guns that couldn't pass a spin test and I had to get them fixed. Fitting one of these shouldn't include recutting the chamber. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Just test fired the most recent two. The second 5" gun loosened up quite a bit, to the point where the hood length fitting no longer holds it in the slide when the gun is apart. My first 5" still does despite having the most rounds through it, and the VTAC is also still tight. Still no discernible fore-aft movement though so that's fine. I removed a tad from the lug on the VTAC and it now fits perfect. Still tight, but now it snaps into battery without issue, same as my other 5" guns. Here's the bad part. Both guns had numerous failures to fire.....with ball ammo. Rounds are catching on the feed ramp just prior to making it to the chamber. Apex cut a hard angle in that portion and it's proven to be a real....hangup. Both guns were lubed and clean prior to firing. Extra lube applied to "fitted" areas to ensure no issues there. All fitting done following apex guidelines. Still FTF's. The VTAC seemed to work itself out after about 50 or so rounds, but the 5" had trouble. When it did cycle, it was notchy. You could feel the round hang up, and slow the slide, but most of the time it had enough momentum to go into battery. Still felt funky though. As of now, I don't find these barrels suitable for defensive purposes. My remaining order will be cancelled and I will be attempting to return these barrels. Oh yeah, my duty ammo doesn't pass the spin test either. It makes contacts with the lands/grooves of the rifling . Speer gold dot 124 fwiw. Accuracy seemed really good, but as of right now I simply cannot trust these barrels. No amount of fitting can solve the FTF issues nor the fact that the rifling is cut too far to the rear. Yikes. That's too bad, I've had other semi-custom guns that couldn't pass a spin test and I had to get them fixed. Fitting one of these shouldn't include recutting the chamber. Agreed. The feed ramp is also about half the width and more steep than the KKMs and stock barrels. If they'd widen the ramp, round the corners and cut the chamber properly, they'd be great. The accuracy is there....that being said, I'll wait for the "mk2" variant, which hopefully will be duty grade, versus whatever apex grade is. |
|
My experience so far has been positive.
Install: Very good shop that happens to be local installed the 'gunsmith fit' barrel for me. Reliability: I brought a box of 124 +P Gold Dots in case I had any reliability issues but ended up not needing them. Ran 70 rounds through it without issue - a mix of vanilla stuff like PPU 115, Fiocchi 115, and Lawman 124. Accuracy: Haven't benched it yet and I'm not a terribly strong pistol shooter, but this set up (in this one session) performed better for me than any pistol I've ever shot before, so I'm encouraged by that. Btw, what's the 'spin test'? |
|
Quoted:
My experience so far has been positive. Install: Very good shop that happens to be local installed the 'gunsmith fit' barrel for me. Reliability: I brought a box of 124 +P Gold Dots in case I had any reliability issues but ended up not needing them. Ran 70 rounds through it without issue - a mix of vanilla stuff like PPU 115, Fiocchi 115, and Lawman 124. Accuracy: Haven't benched it yet and I'm not a terribly strong pistol shooter, but this set up (in this one session) performed better for me than any pistol I've ever shot before, so I'm encouraged by that. Btw, what's the 'spin test'? View Quote One of mine didn't really seem to have issues from a reliability standpoint, so who knows. The feed ramp is so different from the KKM's and stockers though that it doesn't surprise me. The spin test is, with the barrel out of the gun, drop a round in the chamber and see if it can spin freely. This helps you determine if the round is touching the rifling while sitting in the chamber. It shouldn't be. Most concerning to me isn't even failures with JHP's, that happens and some minor massaging is usually all it takes. What frightened me was jamming with ball ammo. I've never even had a 1911 that wouldn't feed FMJ ammo |
|
Quoted:
One of mine didn't really seem to have issues from a reliability standpoint, so who knows. The feed ramp is so different from the KKM's and stockers though that it doesn't surprise me. The spin test is, with the barrel out of the gun, drop a round in the chamber and see if it can spin freely. This helps you determine if the round is touching the rifling while sitting in the chamber. It shouldn't be. Most concerning to me isn't even failures with JHP's, that happens and some minor massaging is usually all it takes. What frightened me was jamming with ball ammo. I've never even had a 1911 that wouldn't feed FMJ ammo View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
My experience so far has been positive. Install: Very good shop that happens to be local installed the 'gunsmith fit' barrel for me. Reliability: I brought a box of 124 +P Gold Dots in case I had any reliability issues but ended up not needing them. Ran 70 rounds through it without issue - a mix of vanilla stuff like PPU 115, Fiocchi 115, and Lawman 124. Accuracy: Haven't benched it yet and I'm not a terribly strong pistol shooter, but this set up (in this one session) performed better for me than any pistol I've ever shot before, so I'm encouraged by that. Btw, what's the 'spin test'? One of mine didn't really seem to have issues from a reliability standpoint, so who knows. The feed ramp is so different from the KKM's and stockers though that it doesn't surprise me. The spin test is, with the barrel out of the gun, drop a round in the chamber and see if it can spin freely. This helps you determine if the round is touching the rifling while sitting in the chamber. It shouldn't be. Most concerning to me isn't even failures with JHP's, that happens and some minor massaging is usually all it takes. What frightened me was jamming with ball ammo. I've never even had a 1911 that wouldn't feed FMJ ammo I hear ya, just sharing my experience, which has been very good so far. As a side note, I forgot to mention my smith polished the feedramp on my barrel. Maybe that has been a factor re: my reliability. |
|
Quoted:
I hear ya, just sharing my experience, which has been very good so far. As a side note, I forgot to mention my smith polished the feedramp on my barrel. Maybe that has been a factor re: my reliability. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My experience so far has been positive. Install: Very good shop that happens to be local installed the 'gunsmith fit' barrel for me. Reliability: I brought a box of 124 +P Gold Dots in case I had any reliability issues but ended up not needing them. Ran 70 rounds through it without issue - a mix of vanilla stuff like PPU 115, Fiocchi 115, and Lawman 124. Accuracy: Haven't benched it yet and I'm not a terribly strong pistol shooter, but this set up (in this one session) performed better for me than any pistol I've ever shot before, so I'm encouraged by that. Btw, what's the 'spin test'? One of mine didn't really seem to have issues from a reliability standpoint, so who knows. The feed ramp is so different from the KKM's and stockers though that it doesn't surprise me. The spin test is, with the barrel out of the gun, drop a round in the chamber and see if it can spin freely. This helps you determine if the round is touching the rifling while sitting in the chamber. It shouldn't be. Most concerning to me isn't even failures with JHP's, that happens and some minor massaging is usually all it takes. What frightened me was jamming with ball ammo. I've never even had a 1911 that wouldn't feed FMJ ammo I hear ya, just sharing my experience, which has been very good so far. As a side note, I forgot to mention my smith polished the feedramp on my barrel. Maybe that has been a factor re: my reliability. No problem, I'm glad others are posting, and more than that I am glad yours is working. I've literally never wanted a M&P product to work more than this one, so I'm glad at least someone here is able to reap the benefits. |
|
In case anyone was still wondering about this product......
Apex is now aware of this. I will leave it at that, and Randy is one determined guy. More to come |
|
I got DitchDr's through the EE. Dropped in to the 40 slide fine, will need fitting if I drop it in my older gen 9mm slide. Notice a slight catch on the bottom pad when returning slide to battery. Haven't tried for function yet, kind of waiting to see if I can snag a stripped 9mm slide to fit it to before proceeding with the 40.
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.