M&P's Failure to Feed (FTF)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M&P's Failure to Feed (FTF)

Posted: 9/8/2014 10:29:40 AM EDT

An update to the archived thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=16&t=130587

I've eliminated every possibility based on user comments across the web.

This is not an ammo problem, not a feed ramp problem, not a "sling-shot" problem, not a spring problem (mag or recoil), and most certainly not a mag problem.

I'm experiencing this same FTF consistently on both my M&P Pro and Full, using multiple mags (some with extensions, some without). It happens in my Pro with both a Storm Lake barrel with polished feed ramp AND the stock barrel, as well as on my Full with its stock barrel. I even sent my Storm Lake barrel back to have the chamber opened to no avail.

I also refuse to even entertain the possibility of this being ammo related, when I only shoot factory ammo from PMC, Remington, Hornady, and Barnes. All of which, will FTF. Besides, if my Glocks will run on those, there's NO excuse for an M&P not to. The end.

I would say that from a clean state, I'm able to run approximately 20-25 rounds of ammo through each before the first hang-up. After that, here's what the FTF looks like:

photo from: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/309889-m-p-45c-failure-feed.html

As you can see, the feed ramp does its job, but the rim of the case is hung up on the extractor (at a bad angle). A tap on the back of the slide and I'm back in business.

In my opinion, and since I've eliminated every other possible option known to me, this is caused by two possible issues: 1) my thumb is riding the slide therefore adding resistance to its ability to cycle, or 2) the extractor is too tight.

Since the FTF happens consistently on two different M&P's, but not my Shield (or any other handguns I own for that matter), I believe that rules out riding the slide. So, my question is, how does one loosen the extractor... or should I just forget about S&W's extractor altogether and drop in APEX never-fail extractors? Having asked that, let me throw this out as well... is it at all possible for a failure/hang-up like this to occur as result of a trigger and/or sear problem?

Posted: 9/8/2014 11:07:49 AM EDT

[#1]

I would probably get the Apex extractor and see if that cures the problem. If it does, buy another for the other M&P.

Posted: 9/8/2014 11:10:34 AM EDT

[#2]

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I would probably get the Apex extractor and see if that cures the problem. If it does, buy another for the other M&P.

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I'm leaning that direction. It really pisses me off that I had to dump so much time and money into this problem. I prefer the ergonomics of the M&Ps over Glocks, but I never had a snag like this with my 23 or 17. And my SHIELD has been awesome!

Posted: 9/8/2014 11:18:06 AM EDT

[#3]

Let us know if you go with the updated extractor and if it fixes the problem.

Posted: 9/8/2014 11:22:34 AM EDT

[#4]

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Quoted:
Let us know if you go with the updated extractor and if it fixes the problem.

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Of course! Have you had the same problem? Everything I'v found on the internet misdiagnoses the problem as a sling-shot, feed ramp or ammo issue. Only after eliminating those three do the topics of mags and recoil and/or mag springs come into the mix. I've been fooling with all of those for months with little or no change. Moreover, I can bang through hundreds of rounds on my SHIELD without a single issue - so S&W must have sorted something out on that model. It just seems strange to me.

Posted: 9/8/2014 11:59:15 AM EDT

[#5]

Just in case the APEX part doesn't fix the issue, are you sure the mags are seated all the way correctly or does it hang just a tiny bit low?

Does the FTF happen only on the 1st couple of rounds out of the mag and then the later rounds feed just fine - until you start a new mag?

If so, I had a problem a while back with a different set of pistols (Kahrs) that was like that and the problem was polymer mag catch had worn - just a hair, but enough to cause the mag to hang just enough to cause feed jams on the first couple of rounds where the spring pressure is a margin higher. It looked just like your picture. Might be the same problem.

Posted: 9/8/2014 5:32:31 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Just in case the APEX part doesn't fix the issue, are you sure the mags are seated all the way correctly or does it hang just a tiny bit low?

Does the FTF happen only on the 1st couple of rounds out of the mag and then the later rounds feed just fine - until you start a new mag?

If so, I had a problem a while back with a different set of pistols (Kahrs) that was like that and the problem was polymer mag catch had worn - just a hair, but enough to cause the mag to hang just enough to cause feed jams on the first couple of rounds where the spring pressure is a margin higher. It looked just like your picture. Might be the same problem.

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Mags are seated fine and it typically happens after 3-5 rounds. It's sporadic after that, with no real consistency.

Posted: 9/9/2014 3:38:43 PM EDT

[#7]

That's odd. It does look like your extractor though. I don't understand how you are able to shoot 20 some round, then it starts happening. Its not like the extractor gets hot enough to cause some sort of malfunction. What is the manufactor date for the pistols your having problems with?

Posted: 9/10/2014 10:33:26 AM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
That's odd. It does look like your extractor though. I don't understand how you are able to shoot 20 some round, then it starts happening. Its not like the extractor gets hot enough to cause some sort of malfunction. What is the manufactor date for the pistols your having problems with?

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I know right?!? It's like the slightest bit of fouling and the extractor seizes up. Either that, or as soon as the feed ramp gets slightly fouled, but that's no reason for a FTF in my mind. If the gun won't shoot unless the feed ramp is clean I have no use for it. As for manufacturing, I don't know the exact dates or have them handy to reference the codes, but both came directly from S&W (I had to wait). One two years ago and the other just last year. I'll try and confirm the exact dates later. Still, they're new with about 500 rounds through each of them.

Posted: 9/10/2014 10:59:41 AM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

I know right?!? It's like the slightest bit of fouling and the extractor seizes up. Either that, or as soon as the feed ramp gets slightly fouled, but that's no reason for a FTF in my mind. If the gun won't shoot unless the feed ramp is clean I have no use for it. As for manufacturing, I don't know the exact dates or have them handy to reference the codes, but both came directly from S&W (I had to wait). One two years ago and the other just last year. I'll try and confirm the exact dates later. Still, they're new with about 500 rounds through each of them.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
That's odd. It does look like your extractor though. I don't understand how you are able to shoot 20 some round, then it starts happening. Its not like the extractor gets hot enough to cause some sort of malfunction. What is the manufactor date for the pistols your having problems with?

I know right?!? It's like the slightest bit of fouling and the extractor seizes up. Either that, or as soon as the feed ramp gets slightly fouled, but that's no reason for a FTF in my mind. If the gun won't shoot unless the feed ramp is clean I have no use for it. As for manufacturing, I don't know the exact dates or have them handy to reference the codes, but both came directly from S&W (I had to wait). One two years ago and the other just last year. I'll try and confirm the exact dates later. Still, they're new with about 500 rounds through each of them.

What did S&W say when you called them?
To just send it in?

Posted: 9/10/2014 11:01:54 AM EDT

[#10]

My MP45 did this a few times with some reman ammo that had been trimmed and not crimped, I corrected the problem by barely breaking the sharp edge between the ramp and the chamber with a jewler's file. Zero hiccups since.

Posted: 9/10/2014 12:57:14 PM EDT

[#11]

I know you don't think ammo is the issue. All I'll say is that I have a Ruger P-85 and that was my only 9 for a long time. I carried a 45. I bought an M&P 9c a few years ago and it will not cycle PMC 115 gr or my reloads that all work fine in the Ruger. I functions with WWB, Federal 115gr and all heavier stuff just fine.

Posted: 9/10/2014 1:40:41 PM EDT

[#12]

Tag. I have 4 M&P 9's, all run like sewing machines.

Posted: 9/10/2014 4:07:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Have you had someone else shoot the guns just to be certain to eliminate the human aspect about how you might be holding the gun, riding the slide, etc?

Posted: 9/12/2014 11:20:03 AM EDT

[#14]

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Have you had someone else shoot the guns just to be certain to eliminate the human aspect about how you might be holding the gun, riding the slide, etc?

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I have, and I did. That is, unless of course he was riding the slide as well. Besides, I have no problems with my Glocks, my Sig MK25, or my M&P Shield. But trust me, I SO want this to be a grip issue!

Posted: 9/12/2014 11:26:39 AM EDT

[#15]

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But trust me, I SO want this to be a grip issue!

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Why? Mechanical issues are easier to fix than bad habits

Post a picture of your barrel ramp for us.

Posted: 9/12/2014 11:32:05 AM EDT

[#16]

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Why? Mechanical issues are easier to fix than bad habits

Post a picture of your barrel ramp for us.

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Quoted:
But trust me, I SO want this to be a grip issue!

Why? Mechanical issues are easier to fix than bad habits

Post a picture of your barrel ramp for us.

...but when you've eliminated 99% of the mechanicals and still can't determine the cause...

<bangs head on workbench>

Posted: 9/12/2014 7:55:02 PM EDT

[#17]

I'm having the exact same issue on my new .45...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_16/152935_New_MandP_45_FTF_.html

I emailed S&W customer service a few days ago, and they sent a FedEx shipping label. Shipped it out yesterday...hopefully they can sort it out and get it back reasonably quick.

Posted: 9/15/2014 10:02:15 PM EDT

[#18]

S&W is aware of the issue. One of their "rolling" deign changes is to add their "long" extractor to all guns. This type of failure is commonly found with the original extractor. You can either call up S&W, explain the issue and see if they'll send you a "long" extractor (which is MIM obviously), or you can buy the APEX. I have seen both solve the problem.

(Certified S&W Armorer)

Posted: 9/16/2014 9:18:05 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
S&W is aware of the issue. One of their "rolling" deign changes is to add their "long" extractor to all guns. This type of failure is commonly found with the original extractor. You can either call up S&W, explain the issue and see if they'll send you a "long" extractor (which is MIM obviously), or you can buy the APEX. I have seen both solve the problem.

(Certified S&W Armorer)

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This is actually a huge relief! I'll give them a call and see what they say.

Posted: 9/16/2014 9:27:33 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

This is actually a huge relief! I'll give them a call and see what they say.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
S&W is aware of the issue. One of their "rolling" deign changes is to add their "long" extractor to all guns. This type of failure is commonly found with the original extractor. You can either call up S&W, explain the issue and see if they'll send you a "long" extractor (which is MIM obviously), or you can buy the APEX. I have seen both solve the problem.

(Certified S&W Armorer)

This is actually a huge relief! I'll give them a call and see what they say.

Well, I called and spoke to a very sleepy sounding gentlemen who is issuing return labels through FedEx. I'll keep you all posted.

Posted: 9/19/2014 4:41:01 PM EDT

[#21]

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Tag. I have 4 M&P 9's, all run like sewing machines.

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My wife's got a M&P 9c and it runs flawlessly on anything we feed it.

Maybe they had a bad batch that the OP got into?

Posted: 9/26/2014 12:27:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Problem solved! New extractors solved the issue in both instances.

Posted: 9/26/2014 12:51:38 PM EDT

[#23]

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Problem solved! New extractors solved the issue in both instances.

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Good news man!

Posted: 9/26/2014 11:58:55 PM EDT

[#24]

Good to hear. Mine was delivered to S&W on the 15th...haven't heard anything yet.

Posted: 10/7/2014 8:58:19 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
Problem solved! New extractors solved the issue in both instances.

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You called them on the 16th, and got 'em back 10 days later...much better luck than I'm having.

FedEx dropped mine off on the 15th (S&W says they received it on the 17th)...emailed them a few days ago, and all they can say is that it's in que to be looked at and could be 2 - 4 weeks before it's repaired.

They advertise priority service for Mil/LE weapons...before I shipped mine I advised them that I had just purchased it as a duty weapon, and that my dept.'s yearly qualification for personal weapons was the first week of October. Looks like I'm stuck carrying a Glock for another year...anyone want to buy an M&P 45 in a few weeks?

Posted: 10/9/2014 11:39:33 AM EDT

[#26]

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You called them on the 16th, and got 'em back 10 days later...much better luck than I'm having.

FedEx dropped mine off on the 15th (S&W says they received it on the 17th)...emailed them a few days ago, and all they can say is that it's in que to be looked at and could be 2 - 4 weeks before it's repaired.

They advertise priority service for Mil/LE weapons...before I shipped mine I advised them that I had just purchased it as a duty weapon, and that my dept.'s yearly qualification for personal weapons was the first week of October. Looks like I'm stuck carrying a Glock for another year...anyone want to buy an M&P 45 in a few weeks?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Problem solved! New extractors solved the issue in both instances.

You called them on the 16th, and got 'em back 10 days later...much better luck than I'm having.

FedEx dropped mine off on the 15th (S&W says they received it on the 17th)...emailed them a few days ago, and all they can say is that it's in que to be looked at and could be 2 - 4 weeks before it's repaired.

They advertise priority service for Mil/LE weapons...before I shipped mine I advised them that I had just purchased it as a duty weapon, and that my dept.'s yearly qualification for personal weapons was the first week of October. Looks like I'm stuck carrying a Glock for another year...anyone want to buy an M&P 45 in a few weeks?

Oh no, I got the so called 'long extractor' in 10 days, and the Apex in 4. My S&W smith put the long extractor in and I put in the Apex.