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nick_75
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Posted: 3/22/2012 10:18:37 PM
Page 2 ownage!
monkey_AR
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Posted: 3/23/2012 10:25:59 AM
Originally Posted By black_m4:
Originally Posted By monkey_AR:
I've heard a number of industry types say the M&P was a great design that S&W will fuck up. I own two a 9L and a VTAC 9. I like both guns. The 9L is my house gun with a X300 on it. I also have a Glock 19 that I use for CCW.

Advantages:

Better ergo than the Glock. Mag and slide release designs are superior. Slide design allows for easier press checks and slide manipulations. Steel, not plastic, sights out of the box. I've used the VTAC in a class with the stock crap trigger and did fine. Only FTF was with a defective WWB round. Not the guns fault.

Disadvantages:

Trigger pull is awful on a stock M&P. Gritty with lots of overtravel. IMO the APEX DCAEK is a necessity so you can add another $90 to the price of the gun. Once you get that installed you have a pretty good pistol. Magazines will sometimes fail to drop free but a little light sanding of the mag well solves that. I think the magazine design is good. The large baseplate isn't an advantage in CCW but I think it helps get a good grip on the magazine during reloads, manipulations, etc.

Others have indicated that there are accuracy issues with some models and they have had to get the barrels replaced. Smith's customer service is very good in my experience so they will get it right for you.

Keep in mind with Glock's recent Gen 4 fiasco every model out there is going to have potential issues if you buy one. The M&P models I have are 100% so far.

If someone had cash dropped into one line, say Glock 17, 19 or 26 with extra mags and holsters I probably would say it would not make sense to sell all that to acquire a M&P buying new holsters, mag pouch and magazines. If dropping $800 on a whole new setup isn't an obstacle or you don't have a weapon that is its equal then I'd go with an M&P.


plenty of bull shit in this statement. Do you have a M&P? you say you do but above show other wise. if you dont then shut your mouth about the trigger and the gun in general. the others that have indicated accuracy issues have suck and need something to blame so it does not mean shit. mags dont drop free? when? I have 6 as of yesterday and they all drop free even unloaded. the mag design is the best and runs right out of the box. Why mention glock in a M&P thread? he didnt ask about them.


If you read the post I have two. Don't believe me? I could give a shit. There are other threads on here where I have posted pictures of them. Go look on M4Carbine or mp-pistol.com and you will see numerous threads about the accuracy issue and the drop free issue. Better yet go ask Randy Lee why he is getting together with Storm Lake to make replacement barrels. You have six M&P's, congratulations. You have no problems with them? Good for you. Don't want to hear anything negative about the 6 guns you bought, then don't go on the internet.
black_m4
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Posted: 3/23/2012 11:26:55 AM
[Last Edit: 3/23/2012 11:47:55 AM by black_m4]
Originally Posted By monkey_AR:
Originally Posted By black_m4:
Originally Posted By monkey_AR:
I've heard a number of industry types say the M&P was a great design that S&W will fuck up. I own two a 9L and a VTAC 9. I like both guns. The 9L is my house gun with a X300 on it. I also have a Glock 19 that I use for CCW.

Advantages:

Better ergo than the Glock. Mag and slide release designs are superior. Slide design allows for easier press checks and slide manipulations. Steel, not plastic, sights out of the box. I've used the VTAC in a class with the stock crap trigger and did fine. Only FTF was with a defective WWB round. Not the guns fault.

Disadvantages:

Trigger pull is awful on a stock M&P. Gritty with lots of overtravel. IMO the APEX DCAEK is a necessity so you can add another $90 to the price of the gun. Once you get that installed you have a pretty good pistol. Magazines will sometimes fail to drop free but a little light sanding of the mag well solves that. I think the magazine design is good. The large baseplate isn't an advantage in CCW but I think it helps get a good grip on the magazine during reloads, manipulations, etc.

Others have indicated that there are accuracy issues with some models and they have had to get the barrels replaced. Smith's customer service is very good in my experience so they will get it right for you.

Keep in mind with Glock's recent Gen 4 fiasco every model out there is going to have potential issues if you buy one. The M&P models I have are 100% so far.

If someone had cash dropped into one line, say Glock 17, 19 or 26 with extra mags and holsters I probably would say it would not make sense to sell all that to acquire a M&P buying new holsters, mag pouch and magazines. If dropping $800 on a whole new setup isn't an obstacle or you don't have a weapon that is its equal then I'd go with an M&P.


plenty of bull shit in this statement. Do you have a M&P? you say you do but above show other wise. if you dont then shut your mouth about the trigger and the gun in general. the others that have indicated accuracy issues have suck and need something to blame so it does not mean shit. mags dont drop free? when? I have 6 as of yesterday and they all drop free even unloaded. the mag design is the best and runs right out of the box. Why mention glock in a M&P thread? he didnt ask about them.


If you read the post I have two. Don't believe me? I could give a shit. There are other threads on here where I have posted pictures of them. Go look on M4Carbine or mp-pistol.com and you will see numerous threads about the accuracy issue and the drop free issue. Better yet go ask Randy Lee why he is getting together with Storm Lake to make replacement barrels. You have six M&P's, congratulations. You have no problems with them? Good for you. Don't want to hear anything negative about the 6 guns you bought, then don't go on the internet.


I dont have to ask anyone because i own them I know that 99% of fuckers who complain about them are just not good shooters and spend too much time on too many websites complaining when they could be dryfiring or actually shooting. Im not worrried about hearing anything negative because i know most is just hear say. I dont have any problems because they typically are operator error. My real point to you is dont get on here running your mouth listing shit like your some fucking authority on the mattertrying to point out pros and cons when you have minimanl experince on the matter. Stop perpetuating a rumor. and if you want to talk about negative just call any one in the (gunsmith) business who actually does trgger jobs and you will hear ass loads of horror stories about drop in shit. Makes you wonder if its the maker or the installer. so it goes both ways. bottem line stop typing and start shooting!

black_m4
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Posted: 3/23/2012 11:35:30 AM
dont confuse my above post with any hatred for Apex, or any other company that manufactures drop in parts. all im saying in refrence to them is dont think they are the end all be all and in lot of cases they still need custom fitment to work as desired.
monkey_AR
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Posted: 3/23/2012 12:28:32 PM
Originally Posted By black_m4:
Originally Posted By monkey_AR:
Originally Posted By black_m4:
Originally Posted By monkey_AR:
I've heard a number of industry types say the M&P was a great design that S&W will fuck up. I own two a 9L and a VTAC 9. I like both guns. The 9L is my house gun with a X300 on it. I also have a Glock 19 that I use for CCW.

Advantages:

Better ergo than the Glock. Mag and slide release designs are superior. Slide design allows for easier press checks and slide manipulations. Steel, not plastic, sights out of the box. I've used the VTAC in a class with the stock crap trigger and did fine. Only FTF was with a defective WWB round. Not the guns fault.

Disadvantages:

Trigger pull is awful on a stock M&P. Gritty with lots of overtravel. IMO the APEX DCAEK is a necessity so you can add another $90 to the price of the gun. Once you get that installed you have a pretty good pistol. Magazines will sometimes fail to drop free but a little light sanding of the mag well solves that. I think the magazine design is good. The large baseplate isn't an advantage in CCW but I think it helps get a good grip on the magazine during reloads, manipulations, etc.

Others have indicated that there are accuracy issues with some models and they have had to get the barrels replaced. Smith's customer service is very good in my experience so they will get it right for you.

Keep in mind with Glock's recent Gen 4 fiasco every model out there is going to have potential issues if you buy one. The M&P models I have are 100% so far.

If someone had cash dropped into one line, say Glock 17, 19 or 26 with extra mags and holsters I probably would say it would not make sense to sell all that to acquire a M&P buying new holsters, mag pouch and magazines. If dropping $800 on a whole new setup isn't an obstacle or you don't have a weapon that is its equal then I'd go with an M&P.


plenty of bull shit in this statement. Do you have a M&P? you say you do but above show other wise. if you dont then shut your mouth about the trigger and the gun in general. the others that have indicated accuracy issues have suck and need something to blame so it does not mean shit. mags dont drop free? when? I have 6 as of yesterday and they all drop free even unloaded. the mag design is the best and runs right out of the box. Why mention glock in a M&P thread? he didnt ask about them.


If you read the post I have two. Don't believe me? I could give a shit. There are other threads on here where I have posted pictures of them. Go look on M4Carbine or mp-pistol.com and you will see numerous threads about the accuracy issue and the drop free issue. Better yet go ask Randy Lee why he is getting together with Storm Lake to make replacement barrels. You have six M&P's, congratulations. You have no problems with them? Good for you. Don't want to hear anything negative about the 6 guns you bought, then don't go on the internet.


I dont have to ask anyone because i own them I know that 99% of fuckers who complain about them are just not good shooters and spend too much time on too many websites complaining when they could be dryfiring or actually shooting. Im not worrried about hearing anything negative because i know most is just hear say. I dont have any problems because they typically are operator error. My real point to you is dont get on here running your mouth listing shit like your some fucking authority on the mattertrying to point out pros and cons when you have minimanl experince on the matter. Stop perpetuating a rumor. and if you want to talk about negative just call any one in the (gunsmith) business who actually does trgger jobs and you will hear ass loads of horror stories about drop in shit. Makes you wonder if its the maker or the installer. so it goes both ways. bottem line stop typing and start shooting!



The original poster asking for information has no problem with what I wrote. Only you seem to have the problem. Fact is you have no clue what my level of experience is on the subject. You don't think I know what I am talking about? Good for you. As I wrote I couldn't care less what your opinion is of my knowledge on the subject. When Glock was having all kinds of problems with their Gen 4 guns A-holes like you were telling everyone that it was all operator error and internet rumor. The company itself was even telling guys like Ken Hackathorn he was the problem. Many of the things I wrote about were either issues I encountered with my M&Ps or directly from the mouths of Hackathorn and Larry Vickers. Not rumor, not something I heard from someone else (BTW it is HEARSAY not hear say). The OP asked for opinions, it is up to him to decide what makes sense for him. Your idiotic stop typing and start shooting comment does nothing for him. Frankly you have not added a damn thing worth reading to this discussion. There are some very squared away individuals on M4C and Lightfighter who have discussed these topics, only a fool would dismiss them as "fuckers" who don't know what they are talking about. Why don't you share all of your amazing knowledge on the M&P and actually give the OP some useful information?

black_m4
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Posted: 3/23/2012 12:33:58 PM
[Last Edit: 3/23/2012 12:38:14 PM by black_m4]
The original poster asking for information has no problem with what I wrote. Only you seem to have the problem. Fact is you have no clue what my level of experience is on the subject. You don't think I know what I am talking about? Good for you. As I wrote I couldn't care less what your opinion is of my knowledge on the subject. When Glock was having all kinds of problems with their Gen 4 guns A-holes like you were telling everyone that it was all operator error and internet rumor. The company itself was even telling guys like Ken Hackathorn he was the problem. Many of the things I wrote about were either issues I encountered with my M&Ps or directly from the mouths of Hackathorn and Larry Vickers. Not rumor, not something I heard from someone else (BTW it is HEARSAY not hear say). The OP asked for opinions, it is up to him to decide what makes sense for him. Your idiotic stop typing and start shooting comment does nothing for him. Frankly you have not added a damn thing worth reading to this discussion. There are some very squared away individuals on M4C and Lightfighter who have discussed these topics, only a fool would dismiss them as "fuckers" who don't know what they are talking about. Why don't you share all of your amazing knowledge on the M&P and actually give the OP some useful information?

[/quote]

Page one guy 8th post. And I dont give a shit about anyone elses guns. So if anyone else has a problem then deal with it. The bottem line is no matterwho it is 99% of problems are operator error. Stop bringing up Glocks in a M&P thread.

monkey_AR
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Posted: 3/23/2012 1:11:36 PM
Originally Posted By black_m4:
The original poster asking for information has no problem with what I wrote. Only you seem to have the problem. Fact is you have no clue what my level of experience is on the subject. You don't think I know what I am talking about? Good for you. As I wrote I couldn't care less what your opinion is of my knowledge on the subject. When Glock was having all kinds of problems with their Gen 4 guns A-holes like you were telling everyone that it was all operator error and internet rumor. The company itself was even telling guys like Ken Hackathorn he was the problem. Many of the things I wrote about were either issues I encountered with my M&Ps or directly from the mouths of Hackathorn and Larry Vickers. Not rumor, not something I heard from someone else (BTW it is HEARSAY not hear say). The OP asked for opinions, it is up to him to decide what makes sense for him. Your idiotic stop typing and start shooting comment does nothing for him. Frankly you have not added a damn thing worth reading to this discussion. There are some very squared away individuals on M4C and Lightfighter who have discussed these topics, only a fool would dismiss them as "fuckers" who don't know what they are talking about. Why don't you share all of your amazing knowledge on the M&P and actually give the OP some useful information?



Page one guy 8th post. And I dont give a shit about anyone elses guns. So if anyone else has a problem then deal with it. The bottem line is no matterwho it is 99% of problems are operator error. Stop bringing up Glocks in a M&P thread.

[/quote]
"Do it" in bold blue letters. Great advice. Follow that up with suggesting he get a trigger job and new Storm Lake barrels. If you ever meet Vickers or Hackathorn please let me know so I can be there when you thrill them with your wisdom.
black_m4
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Posted: 3/23/2012 1:49:38 PM

[/quote]
[/quote]

taken to pm to stop destruction of thread.
SlightlySkewed
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Posted: 3/23/2012 7:16:49 PM
Originally Posted By black_m4:
Originally Posted By SlightlySkewed:
Sorry, but I can't...been there, done that.


the title is talk him in to a M&P not come in and talk about nothing.

Sorry for the derail.


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Neomonk21
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Posted: 3/26/2012 10:08:22 PM
I just found out that the sale on the M&P's is going on through April so I have some more time to think about this. I think my 1911 is probably what will end up going since I won it and don't really have a huge attachment to it.
drew5337
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Posted: 3/27/2012 5:28:33 PM
I recently went from a beautiful Sig P228 that I'd carried for a decade to an M&P40. The GF got herself a 9c. Both guns are excellent. I'll be getting a 9mm and .357sig barrel for my full size, and I will be buying a 9c for myself for CCW. I am thoroughly impressed with these pistols, and don't miss the Sig at all, which I never would have predicted.
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Calhoun123
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Posted: 4/28/2012 10:41:40 PM
This is just MY opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. If I were you, I would sell everything you have and start over (the Trailside is optional). Those guns are not low quality, but I don't consider them top of the line anyway so I would not see any downside to selling and replacing with a "family" of similar guns like the M&P or Glock.
Hwhiskey82
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Posted: 4/29/2012 12:36:57 AM
Id suggest picking up one m&p and run the hell out of it to truely see if you like it.
If by chance you do, then trade/sell off guns you don't have a lot of investment in for more of the m&p family.
S&w has a m&p in every flavor.

I picked one up a couple weeks ago and absolutely love it.
Mine was fresh from factory, only a couple weeks old and I've had no issues with "unlocking early".

The trigger was a lil crunchy but 100rds later and I have to hold my breath, turn off tv's and a/c and hold it to my ear to hear and feel a "crunch".

I was accustomed to 1911s and I'm not finicky enough to have this percieved "issue" with the trigger.
MotorMouth
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Posted: 4/30/2012 11:31:22 PM
[Last Edit: 4/30/2012 11:32:11 PM by MotorMouth]
I love the M&P line. Call me a fanboy if you will, but to me they are an American Glock with a better grip angle. The trigger is better in the more recent productions, and the aftermarket parts, uh, . . . market is catching up.

That said, I wouldn't sell any of your current guns unless you are consolidating calibers or getting rid of crap you bought when you couldn't afford nicer things.


Otherwise, my opinion only:

Keep your first handgun.

If that mosquito runs well, keep it.

As for the M&P line? Buy them without the ILS, with a mag disconnect, and then remove the mag disconnect. Why? No mag disconnect and no billboard on the side of the pistol. Add a few Apex internals like the hard sear, the usp and the ram, and then be very pleased.

Also, thumb safety? NO! Why?

"I thought the mighty internet would protect me like a giant electronic condom." - DK-Prof
Neomonk21
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Posted: 5/1/2012 9:31:54 AM
Originally Posted By MotorMouth:
I love the M&P line. Call me a fanboy if you will, but to me they are an American Glock with a better grip angle. The trigger is better in the more recent productions, and the aftermarket parts, uh, . . . market is catching up.

That said, I wouldn't sell any of your current guns unless you are consolidating calibers or getting rid of crap you bought when you couldn't afford nicer things.


Otherwise, my opinion only:

Keep your first handgun.

If that mosquito runs well, keep it.

As for the M&P line? Buy them without the ILS, with a mag disconnect, and then remove the mag disconnect. Why? No mag disconnect and no billboard on the side of the pistol. Add a few Apex internals like the hard sear, the usp and the ram, and then be very pleased.

Also, thumb safety? NO! Why?



I was under the impression that you can remove the thumb safety. I'd get it just so I had that option in the future.
MotorMouth
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Posted: 5/1/2012 5:19:08 PM
Originally Posted By Neomonk21:
Originally Posted By MotorMouth:
I love the M&P line. Call me a fanboy if you will, but to me they are an American Glock with a better grip angle. The trigger is better in the more recent productions, and the aftermarket parts, uh, . . . market is catching up.

That said, I wouldn't sell any of your current guns unless you are consolidating calibers or getting rid of crap you bought when you couldn't afford nicer things.


Otherwise, my opinion only:

Keep your first handgun.

If that mosquito runs well, keep it.

As for the M&P line? Buy them without the ILS, with a mag disconnect, and then remove the mag disconnect. Why? No mag disconnect and no billboard on the side of the pistol. Add a few Apex internals like the hard sear, the usp and the ram, and then be very pleased.

Also, thumb safety? NO! Why?



I was under the impression that you can remove the thumb safety. I'd get it just so I had that option in the future.



It's just a personal preference from a guy who has never owned a handgun with an external safety. Although I am planning on picking up a shield, so . . .

Yes, you can remove the safety from an M&P. I think someone even sells plastic inserts to cover up the holes that removing the thumb safety leaves in the frame.
"I thought the mighty internet would protect me like a giant electronic condom." - DK-Prof
TheTacticalCoyote
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Posted: 5/1/2012 7:41:06 PM
Originally Posted By MotorMouth:
Originally Posted By Neomonk21:
Originally Posted By MotorMouth:
I love the M&P line. Call me a fanboy if you will, but to me they are an American Glock with a better grip angle. The trigger is better in the more recent productions, and the aftermarket parts, uh, . . . market is catching up.

That said, I wouldn't sell any of your current guns unless you are consolidating calibers or getting rid of crap you bought when you couldn't afford nicer things.


Otherwise, my opinion only:

Keep your first handgun.

If that mosquito runs well, keep it.

As for the M&P line? Buy them without the ILS, with a mag disconnect, and then remove the mag disconnect. Why? No mag disconnect and no billboard on the side of the pistol. Add a few Apex internals like the hard sear, the usp and the ram, and then be very pleased.

Also, thumb safety? NO! Why?



I was under the impression that you can remove the thumb safety. I'd get it just so I had that option in the future.



It's just a personal preference from a guy who has never owned a handgun with an external safety. Although I am planning on picking up a shield, so . . .

Yes, you can remove the safety from an M&P. I think someone even sells plastic inserts to cover up the holes that removing the thumb safety leaves in the frame.


You can get the thumb safety plugs direct from S&W or from Speed Shooters Specialties.
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Neomonk21
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Posted: 5/2/2012 8:39:42 AM
I still can't make up my mind if I want to sell some guns to get into some M&P's. My dad did offer to buy my Taurus 1911 for whatever a gun store would offer so I would at least have the option of shooting it whenever and/or buying it back in the future.
75ScoutII
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Posted: 5/3/2012 5:41:44 PM
[Last Edit: 5/3/2012 5:44:39 PM by 75ScoutII]
I'll do my best to talk you into an M&P. My handgun experience starts with going through a police academy with a Sig 220, then moving to a Glock 21, then moving to a Glock 17 for duty and 19 for off duty. I felt that I had found perfection for both on and off duty. I felt that the 9mm Glocks were excellent guns, especially the 19 which I came to feel was the perfect general purpose handgun. My department decided to go to a universal issued gun and settled on the M&P 40. I felt this was a mistake and was mad about being forced to change. I had never shot a 40cal that I liked. I felt that the recoil was far more than most 9mms and significantly affected my follow up shot speed and accuracy while offering a minimal terminal ballistics.

My feelings changed after being issued my M&P 40. What an outstanding weapon. Slightly more felt recoil than my G17, but by far the lightest recoiling 40 I've ever shot. My M&P has been exceptionally accurate. Being forced to use only stock triggers I have to say that I like the M&P trigger better than the Glock, which is what I compare to any other defensive handgun I shoot. My only complaint would be that the trigger reset is longer and not as distinct as the Glock. The ergonomics are superior to the Glock. The grip is comfortable and natural. Yeah for no more slide bite!

I traded my G17 for a M&P 40c. The Glock 19 is in the safe and I carry strickly M&Ps. I'm even considering selling my Glock 19 and all of the mags, holsters, and 9mm ammo to buy another M&P 40 and more M&P gear. For other people this may not mean much, but I'm a poor cop who doesn't sell guns that I've developed a deep trust in. To be willing to trade what was one of my favorite handguns to completely transition to the M&P hopefully says a lot.

I just wish S&W would come out with a 9/40/357 version of the 45 Compact. Its identical in size to the G19 and I love that size for off duty carry. It may offer minimal performance advantage over the M&P 40c, but I would feel more comfortable with it. I would consider myself a gun nut. I love shooting different guns, but I have no desire to own any other defensive semi auto handguns besides the M&P 40 line. I don't like to transition between different guns and tend to just stick with what works once I find what I like. The M&P is the best I've shot yet.
Tomac
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Posted: 5/6/2012 2:53:09 PM
Originally Posted By Neomonk21:
Originally Posted By MotorMouth:
I love the M&P line. Call me a fanboy if you will, but to me they are an American Glock with a better grip angle. The trigger is better in the more recent productions, and the aftermarket parts, uh, . . . market is catching up.
That said, I wouldn't sell any of your current guns unless you are consolidating calibers or getting rid of crap you bought when you couldn't afford nicer things.
Otherwise, my opinion only:
Keep your first handgun.
If that mosquito runs well, keep it.
As for the M&P line? Buy them without the ILS, with a mag disconnect, and then remove the mag disconnect. Why? No mag disconnect and no billboard on the side of the pistol. Add a few Apex internals like the hard sear, the usp and the ram, and then be very pleased.
Also, thumb safety? NO! Why?


I was under the impression that you can remove the thumb safety. I'd get it just so I had that option in the future.


This. You can always remove it later but you cannot add one to an M&P that didn't come w/one from the factory. W/APEX parts I prefer having the thumb safety (I cut my teeth on 1911's so a thumb safety's no big deal for me, YMMV).
Tomac

"When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty." - Thomas Jefferson

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