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Posted: 1/20/2017 1:49:48 AM EDT
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/19/army-picks-sig-sauer-replace-m9-service-pistol.html

Wow. So I'm wondering apart from hurt feelings, this is a good thing for Beretta fans, right? Should lose some luster being shunned by the Army so less demand and prices fall a little, more spare parts and miscellaneous hitting the market?
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 1:53:51 AM EDT
[#1]
Hopefully beretta gets off its butt and back in the game.  They stopped making compacts and centurions even though that's what their customers wanted.  No front site dovetails.  Maybe the can innovate a little and start pleasing their civilian customers.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 2:13:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Wait a minute. The Army is going to pay Sig 580 million dollars for 280,000 P320s + 7,000 P320 Compacts? They're going to pay Sig $2020.00 per P320?

LOL

Please tell me that journalist made a typo and added an extra zero. If I were a Congresscritter I would refuse to fund that shit, have words with our new president about there being an anal-rectal inversion over at the Pentagon, and recommend firings. That is the most ridiculous small arms deal I have ever seen.

When Beretta was offering M9a3s no less for even cheaper than the bulk government rate on the M9 (military procured an additional 100,000 M9s in 2012 for $58 million, or $580 per unit). Really, I don't have words for that level of wasteful stupidity if those figures are correct.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 2:31:00 AM EDT
[#3]
Most acquisitions include spare parts, MFG support via FSR's, etc. Regardless, it's a shame. I like the M9 and if they're going to replace it....pick anything but a shit Sig product. Hopefully they did more research on the 320 than they did on the Sig P250 and it's cheap parts and horrible trigger.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 2:35:00 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm no contracts or procurement guy, but there's not enough data from the article to state the cost per unit. I'd say with near certainty that price includes a variety of things beyond Sig saying "here ya go." Service, maintenance, parts, all of which are "a la" Army style. I.e. whatever in the hell the Army said they wanted.
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 9:47:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm no contracts or procurement guy, but there's not enough data from the article to state the cost per unit. I'd say with near certainty that price includes a variety of things beyond Sig saying "here ya go." Service, maintenance, parts, all of which are "a la" Army style. I.e. whatever in the hell the Army said they wanted.
View Quote


This. There is a lot more in that contract than the gun itself. Spare parts, spare mags, training, service repairs, etc...
Link Posted: 1/20/2017 6:09:45 PM EDT
[#6]
So when should we expect the sub $700 M9A3's to roll out?....
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 1:53:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Beretta handguns are going the way Colt did with rifles, We will tell you what you (the customer) wants. That doesn't go well Beretta better pull their heads out of their asses and get back in the game.
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 1:58:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wait a minute. The Army is going to pay Sig 580 million dollars for 280,000 P320s + 7,000 P320 Compacts? They're going to pay Sig $2020.00 per P320?

LOL

Please tell me that journalist made a typo and added an extra zero. If I were a Congresscritter I would refuse to fund that shit, have words with our new president about there being an anal-rectal inversion over at the Pentagon, and recommend firings. That is the most ridiculous small arms deal I have ever seen.

When Beretta was offering M9a3s no less for even cheaper than the bulk government rate on the M9 (military procured an additional 100,000 M9s in 2012 for $58 million, or $580 per unit). Really, I don't have words for that level of wasteful stupidity if those figures are correct.
View Quote



The contract was for the guns, spare parts, magazines, training, suppressors and don't forget it includes ammo as well.  In the RFP ammo selection was included
Link Posted: 1/22/2017 11:55:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The contract was for the guns, spare parts, magazines, training, suppressors and don't forget it includes ammo as well.  In the RFP ammo selection was included
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wait a minute. The Army is going to pay Sig 580 million dollars for 280,000 P320s + 7,000 P320 Compacts? They're going to pay Sig $2020.00 per P320?

LOL

Please tell me that journalist made a typo and added an extra zero. If I were a Congresscritter I would refuse to fund that shit, have words with our new president about there being an anal-rectal inversion over at the Pentagon, and recommend firings. That is the most ridiculous small arms deal I have ever seen.

When Beretta was offering M9a3s no less for even cheaper than the bulk government rate on the M9 (military procured an additional 100,000 M9s in 2012 for $58 million, or $580 per unit). Really, I don't have words for that level of wasteful stupidity if those figures are correct.



The contract was for the guns, spare parts, magazines, training, suppressors and don't forget it includes ammo as well.  In the RFP ammo selection was included


The new contract numbers really do looked very suspicious.  The original M9 contract was roughly $75 million for 315,930 pistols.  As it was a completely new platform in 1985, that would have also included all the extras (except ammo.)  $75MM/315,930 is $237.39.  The unit cost for the pistol was $178.50, leaving $58.89 for spares/training/etc.  

The Sig contract seems exceedingly over-priced in comparison, even accounting for inflation ($75MM in 1985 is around $168MM today.)

The source for my figures:
http://archive.gao.gov/d4t4/130439.pdf
Link Posted: 1/24/2017 7:03:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So when should we expect the sub $700 M9A3's to roll out?....
View Quote


This is what I'm hoping for
Link Posted: 1/24/2017 11:53:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The new contract numbers really do looked very suspicious.  The original M9 contract was roughly $75 million for 315,930 pistols.  As it was a completely new platform in 1985, that would have also included all the extras (except ammo.)  $75MM/315,930 is $237.39.  The unit cost for the pistol was $178.50, leaving $58.89 for spares/training/etc.  

The Sig contract seems exceedingly over-priced in comparison, even accounting for inflation ($75MM in 1985 is around $168MM today.)

The source for my figures:
http://archive.gao.gov/d4t4/130439.pdf
View Quote


Exactly.

Sig may have "underbid" on the pistols themselves, but those numbers say they're MORE than making up for it with gold-plated parts and accessories. That's an absurd amount for the number of pistols being purchased.
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