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Link Posted: 9/9/2016 10:47:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Have owned my 92 since 1989.  I have no idea on round count, alot.  It has never had a failure of any kind.  I've run just about every ammo known to mankind thru it.    Zero malfunctions.  

I replace springs when I think of it, probably every 5,000 rounds or so.  Everything else is original.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 1:51:10 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
All guns are on their way to the scrap pile from the moment you first start shooting them. You're causing controlled explosions propelling hunks of metal at high velocity, not calculating Pi on your iPhone. Until we develop an alloy stronger than uranium that has the give and heat tolerance of steel and magic contactless barrels, wear will be a thing, period. Proper maintenance and replacement of parts as needed staves this off. Even an overengineered monster of a tank like the Mark 23 develops problems eventually, and fails utterly when poorly maintained over a long period of time, nevermind "normal" pistols. If you think military M9s are anything resembling bad, you're probably too young to remember or haven't asked around enough from guys who served in the 70s and 80s about what utterly atrocious condition the 1911s in the Army inventory were before it was replaced.

The M9/92 with competent care over its lifetime will stand up better than most, it's easy to strip and maintain, and it's the most reliable pistol I've used. Probably the best selling point is it gets you the accuracy and reliability of a $900-1000 pistol for $500-600.
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Likely one of the better observations I have read in awhile regarding the M9/92FS.
Link Posted: 9/10/2016 2:01:54 AM EDT
[#3]
The Beretta is a excellent pistol, on par with Sig/CZ

The people bitching about the M9 are the same people that bitch about the M4 calling it a POS.  You have to remember the .mil guns are often poorly maintained, and field stripped thousands of times by GI's that just crawled out of their parents basement and never fired a pistol before.  Not to mention some of the Beretta pistols still in service are 20+ years old.

Don't buy into the bullshit, a commercially purchased Beretta will give you years of trouble free service.

Link Posted: 9/13/2016 12:21:49 AM EDT
[#4]
I went through a class with my Beretta 92A1. I have had this gun since 2013 but recently I decided to do some upgrades to it. It ran over 1,000 flawless rounds this weekend with no real problems. One thing that I did notice though is my mag catch, it is one of the over sized checkered mag catches made by Wilson Combat. I noticed when there was not a mag seated in the gun, the catch was loose. Once a mag is in place it is solid. There have not been any problems with function, it works perfect it is just loose. I have taken it out a few times to make sure it is in correctly but it never sits tight in the slot. I do have spare parts, I thought about swapping the spring and tabs inside the catch to see if that helps. Ideas? Thoughts?
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 4:35:29 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I went through a class with my Beretta 92A1. I have had this gun since 2013 but recently I decided to do some upgrades to it. It ran over 1,000 flawless rounds this weekend with no real problems. One thing that I did notice though is my mag catch, it is one of the over sized checkered mag catches made by Wilson Combat. I noticed when there was not a mag seated in the gun, the catch was loose. Once a mag is in place it is solid. There have not been any problems with function, it works perfect it is just loose. I have taken it out a few times to make sure it is in correctly but it never sits tight in the slot. I do have spare parts, I thought about swapping the spring and tabs inside the catch to see if that helps. Ideas? Thoughts?
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I have the same safety in my vertec with the same issue.

I just keep it loaded
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 10:54:22 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I have the same safety in my vertec with the same issue.

I just keep it loaded
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I went through a class with my Beretta 92A1. I have had this gun since 2013 but recently I decided to do some upgrades to it. It ran over 1,000 flawless rounds this weekend with no real problems. One thing that I did notice though is my mag catch, it is one of the over sized checkered mag catches made by Wilson Combat. I noticed when there was not a mag seated in the gun, the catch was loose. Once a mag is in place it is solid. There have not been any problems with function, it works perfect it is just loose. I have taken it out a few times to make sure it is in correctly but it never sits tight in the slot. I do have spare parts, I thought about swapping the spring and tabs inside the catch to see if that helps. Ideas? Thoughts?


I have the same safety in my vertec with the same issue.

I just keep it loaded



Makes me feel better about it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 4:23:42 PM EDT
[#7]

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Quoted:
Makes me feel better about it.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

I went through a class with my Beretta 92A1. I have had this gun since 2013 but recently I decided to do some upgrades to it. It ran over 1,000 flawless rounds this weekend with no real problems. One thing that I did notice though is my mag catch, it is one of the over sized checkered mag catches made by Wilson Combat. I noticed when there was not a mag seated in the gun, the catch was loose. Once a mag is in place it is solid. There have not been any problems with function, it works perfect it is just loose. I have taken it out a few times to make sure it is in correctly but it never sits tight in the slot. I do have spare parts, I thought about swapping the spring and tabs inside the catch to see if that helps. Ideas? Thoughts?




I have the same safety in my vertec with the same issue.



I just keep it loaded







Makes me feel better about it.
Same issue with the same checkered Wilson mag release. Though it's never once given me a reason not to trust it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2016 9:34:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 9/29/2016 10:30:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Dad is a firearms instructor at a large agency and has carried a 92FS for 25 years and has only replaced the recoil spring and one other one (trigger bar spring maybe?).  I carried a 96G Elite for a few years as a duty gun and ran a few courses with it, no issues reliability issues.  The open slide has more actual advantages and any perceived disadvantages. If it concerns you, you can always get the beefed up Elite/Brigadier slide model.  I've never seen the platform fail, clean or dirty, on the line/in training.  The Cougar platform also was very reliable.  
Link Posted: 9/30/2016 8:59:14 PM EDT
[#10]
I've had an Italian 92FS since 1991 which has been absolutely reliable, and very accurate.  My only complaint has been double action trigger reach with the stock parts.  But never a complaint about reliability or accuracy.  Like another poster, some folks would make fun of my Italian 9mm at competitions until they got outscored.

I've been in the Navy for 23 years and qualified with 1911 and M9.  As Corpsman, I've deployed with the M9 as my only weapon.  

Since going to submarine duty, we qualified with the M9 1-2 times per year for watch standing (Doc isn't an armed watch stander, but they know I like to shoot and they need medical coverage at the range).  I've seen mag floor plates break, hitting the indoor range floor, and a few failures to go fully into battery, but that was with the range pistols.  

In contrast the ones on the boat were maintained better, by our weapons department, but that may have been because our weapons department guys were "gun guys" and they liked to maintain them.  Pier side watch standing had those pistols out in weather on a frequent basis, but none of them were "abused".  We did a qual shoot in Diego Garcia with the ship pistols, M16s and Mossberg 590s, and I saw no failures at all with the ship's weapons.  The Brits wouldn't let us do quals with the Mk43 or Mk46 on the island.  

Back in 1996/97 when I deployed to Haiti, the M9s we got were all factory fresh, delivered in a wooden crate and the pistols in oily plastic bags.  We each got our pistols assigned to us and we did the initial removal of the packing grease/oil did our quals, , cleaned and lubed them again, and returned them to the crate, a week before we flew out.  WE all were required to check our pistols out from our armory staff each week and clean them whether we had carried them or not that week.  I got to go do medical coverage at the range one day and got to put a few hundred rounds down range. One other Corpsman was with me.  We were the only ones from the Fleet Hospital for that deployment who got to fire our pistols during the deployment.  Those new M9s were just as accurate as my Italian 92 FSone, when they were maintained and fresh.



Link Posted: 10/5/2016 1:18:33 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


The only thing I've ever had get in the slide is water, which is really only a concern because it drives out lube. Non issue, IMO.



I've never seen that.



People in the military have lots of problems. I shall list some of them:

1. People in the military are not trained in how to use a handgun. Outside of a few specialized unit the training they get with a handgun is vastly inferior to what your typical police officer receives...and that's nothing to write home about, either. They are not taught anything more than the very basics of using a handgun and are given so few rounds to practice with that there's no chance the vast majority of them will ever learn how to properly run the gun. Again, outside of a few specialized units, the military just doesn't give a fuck about handgun training.

2. There are parts on a Beretta M9/92 that are wear items. In other words, they are designed to wear in with certain other parts in a particular gun and not be reused. The military being the military will take a gun that is deadlined and will use the parts from that deadlined gun with other parts from other deadlined guns and will build a working gun out of a bunch of parts from deadlined guns. That is sort of like taking a high mileage Chevy V8 and "rebuilding it" by using pistons, rods, and rings from 8 different cars, a camshaft from a different high mileage Chevy V8 and then wondering why the engine runs like dogshit.

3. The military issued Checkmate magazines with a shit coating on them that sucks in sand. Factory Beretta 92 magazines work much better, as do the new generation mags with various sand-resistant coatings.

4. The military does not perform proper maintenance on their handguns. Ask a military armorer when was the last time they replaced recoil springs in the M9's under their care. If that armorer doesn't work with one of those specialized units I mentioned earlier, the answer will be NEVER. If you do not replace the recoil spring in a pistol at proper intervals it will beat itself to death.

5. Beretta has proposed numerous engineering changes over the years to address issues with the M9. Two examples that jump right out are differently designed safety levers that are easier to use and more resistant to breakage and newer designed locking blocks with a much longer life. The military rejected the new safety levers and even though they got the new locking blocks the majority of those locking blocks have not actually been installed in pistols.

6. Contrast what you hear on the internet about the military experience with the 92 with the experience of a place like Range 37. Dave Harrington has probably overseen more rounds through Beretta M9 pistols than anyone else I can think of and he doesn't report anything like the usual internet bullshit that constantly floats around. The difference is that the guns he dealt with were properly maintained, and as a result they worked splendidly.

7. One of the things people hate most about the M9/92 is the heavy, long DA trigger pull...but do you know WHY it has that trigger pull? Because the military mandates that the gun must be able to bust the absolute hardest primers you can possibly shove into a pistol round. It's possible to dramatically reduce the trigger pull of the DA by making changes to the trigger bar and the weight of the mainspring...but these are deviations from the M9 contract (TDP's, to quote a friend of mine who works military contracts for KAC, are frozen in time) and as such not allowed. Put a Wilson trigger bar in a Beretta 92 and you can drop the weight of the trigger pull by 50% or better.

8. One of the things smaller troops hate about the gun is how big it is. Beretta's M9a3 attempts to address that, too.

When properly maintained (they do need to be lubed occasionally and need to have springs changed occasionally) the 92 is one of the most reliable handguns you can buy. And consistently so. In my years paying attention to the firearms industry, Beretta's 92 family of guns has been made consistently well and has offered consistently good performance. LAPD issued or authorized them for almost a couple of decades with no major complaints. (Apart from complaints about issuing the big DA/SA gun to tiny officers with tiny hands)
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Quoted:
- The exposed barrel design seems to be particularly vulnerable to debris/gunk getting inside.


The only thing I've ever had get in the slide is water, which is really only a concern because it drives out lube. Non issue, IMO.


- I've heard that the slide is too light and it often resets out of battery


I've never seen that.


- People in the military seems to HATE it (even official DoD docs rank it as the "worst firearm in all categories"). They claim it is a jam-o-matic, fills with dirt, is inaccurate and hard to use.


People in the military have lots of problems. I shall list some of them:

1. People in the military are not trained in how to use a handgun. Outside of a few specialized unit the training they get with a handgun is vastly inferior to what your typical police officer receives...and that's nothing to write home about, either. They are not taught anything more than the very basics of using a handgun and are given so few rounds to practice with that there's no chance the vast majority of them will ever learn how to properly run the gun. Again, outside of a few specialized units, the military just doesn't give a fuck about handgun training.

2. There are parts on a Beretta M9/92 that are wear items. In other words, they are designed to wear in with certain other parts in a particular gun and not be reused. The military being the military will take a gun that is deadlined and will use the parts from that deadlined gun with other parts from other deadlined guns and will build a working gun out of a bunch of parts from deadlined guns. That is sort of like taking a high mileage Chevy V8 and "rebuilding it" by using pistons, rods, and rings from 8 different cars, a camshaft from a different high mileage Chevy V8 and then wondering why the engine runs like dogshit.

3. The military issued Checkmate magazines with a shit coating on them that sucks in sand. Factory Beretta 92 magazines work much better, as do the new generation mags with various sand-resistant coatings.

4. The military does not perform proper maintenance on their handguns. Ask a military armorer when was the last time they replaced recoil springs in the M9's under their care. If that armorer doesn't work with one of those specialized units I mentioned earlier, the answer will be NEVER. If you do not replace the recoil spring in a pistol at proper intervals it will beat itself to death.

5. Beretta has proposed numerous engineering changes over the years to address issues with the M9. Two examples that jump right out are differently designed safety levers that are easier to use and more resistant to breakage and newer designed locking blocks with a much longer life. The military rejected the new safety levers and even though they got the new locking blocks the majority of those locking blocks have not actually been installed in pistols.

6. Contrast what you hear on the internet about the military experience with the 92 with the experience of a place like Range 37. Dave Harrington has probably overseen more rounds through Beretta M9 pistols than anyone else I can think of and he doesn't report anything like the usual internet bullshit that constantly floats around. The difference is that the guns he dealt with were properly maintained, and as a result they worked splendidly.

7. One of the things people hate most about the M9/92 is the heavy, long DA trigger pull...but do you know WHY it has that trigger pull? Because the military mandates that the gun must be able to bust the absolute hardest primers you can possibly shove into a pistol round. It's possible to dramatically reduce the trigger pull of the DA by making changes to the trigger bar and the weight of the mainspring...but these are deviations from the M9 contract (TDP's, to quote a friend of mine who works military contracts for KAC, are frozen in time) and as such not allowed. Put a Wilson trigger bar in a Beretta 92 and you can drop the weight of the trigger pull by 50% or better.

8. One of the things smaller troops hate about the gun is how big it is. Beretta's M9a3 attempts to address that, too.

When properly maintained (they do need to be lubed occasionally and need to have springs changed occasionally) the 92 is one of the most reliable handguns you can buy. And consistently so. In my years paying attention to the firearms industry, Beretta's 92 family of guns has been made consistently well and has offered consistently good performance. LAPD issued or authorized them for almost a couple of decades with no major complaints. (Apart from complaints about issuing the big DA/SA gun to tiny officers with tiny hands)

^^^As a former infantrymen and a armorer in an infantry company I couldn't agree more with the above post. ^^^
Link Posted: 10/19/2016 2:06:51 PM EDT
[#12]
This FS has seen about 500 rounds a year...for 30 years.  Lot of finish wear, new locking block, EII hammer last year, had a couple of recoil springs replaced.  I don't recall a single failure.


This G is a year old with 500 rds, WC trigger return, SRT, mag release, D spring, love the G slide.


The A3 is new, just 50rds.  WC SRT, trigger return.  8.5 DA pull and 4.5 SA.  Wish Beretta would make the Gparts for these, love the Vertec grip.

Link Posted: 10/19/2016 11:59:45 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
People in the military have lots of problems. I shall list some of them:

<...>

When properly maintained (they do need to be lubed occasionally and need to have springs changed occasionally) the 92 is one of the most reliable handguns you can buy. And consistently so. In my years paying attention to the firearms industry, Beretta's 92 family of guns has been made consistently well and has offered consistently good performance. LAPD issued or authorized them for almost a couple of decades with no major complaints. (Apart from complaints about issuing the big DA/SA gun to tiny officers with tiny hands)
View Quote


ALL of this post. Dead on.
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 12:27:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 2:40:09 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Speaking of the 92, here's a little tidbit of info about the 92:

The recent M9 pistol contract lot acceptance tests achieved a MRBS of 25000 rounds over 5 lot tests of 2500 pistols. The lot tests are performed under government supervision after a full interchange procedure that mixes and matches the major and minor components amongst 10 randomly chosen pistols. That is 10X the most stringent requirement for the MHS... In the mid 2000's, over 165,000 rounds were fired in 17 LATs with ZERO malfunctions under the same conditions.

That's 25,000 MRBS.

Twenty. Five. Thousand.
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I've been shooting my M9 Commercial since I bought it in 2005. If you don't count a few Failures-to-Feed from me limp-wristing it when I was a new and untrained pistol shooter, it still hasn't had its first stoppage. The only other gun I can say that about that I haven't owned less than two years is my M4 Super90; and full disclosure, I haven't shot it nearly as much as my M9 so that's not apples to apples. M9 is good to go if it's maintained worth a damn.

IMO, the military wanting to replace it instead of letting Beretta do a few quality-of-life improvements and continuing to use it says more bad things about the military's procurement system than it does about the design.

M9 --> M9a3 being too big a change without a new competition, but the massive changes going from M16a1 --> M16a4 being good to go doesn't even begin to pass the smell test.
Link Posted: 10/20/2016 8:44:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 4:00:02 PM EDT
[#17]
I've owned multiple upon multiple Beretta 92s over the years. From early 92F to recent production in beat-up ex-PD to NIB condition. Every failure has been directly related to shooter error, magazines, or ammo.

Keep the springs changed, keep it lubed, and you will have a boringly reliable and durable handgun.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 5:38:05 PM EDT
[#18]
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The M9a3 is a bunch of those types of changes rolled into one package. It's certainly not a much different setup than the M9A1.
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On that note, do you happen to know of a comprehensive list of everything they changed/updated with the M9a3? I have yet to find anything other than basic reviews that mention one or two things I already know but don't go in-depth on internals.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 6:24:35 PM EDT
[#19]
We bought my wife's 92FS new in 1996 during the AWB.  Still have the 10 round mags it came with.

In 20 years we have had exactly one issue with the pistol, and that was due to a case failure in a reload.  That pistol has fired thousands of factory and reloaded rounds without any issue.  It is one of the most accurate pistols I have fired, and I judge all 9mm pistols against this 92FS.

I've shot it in USPSA and outlaw 3-gun matches.  If it were a G configuration, I would probably have never bought my first CZ-75.  I now really want an A3 just because Tennessee.  And G config.  And replaceable front sight.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 8:14:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 9:28:04 PM EDT
[#21]
What exactly has changed on the new levers? I played with an A3 at the fun store but I didn't notice anything significant about the levers.
Link Posted: 10/21/2016 9:36:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 10/22/2016 8:43:28 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:


Look at them very closely next to a standard 92/M9. They use a slightly different geometry...easier to reach.
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What exactly has changed on the new levers? I played with an A3 at the fun store but I didn't notice anything significant about the levers.


Look at them very closely next to a standard 92/M9. They use a slightly different geometry...easier to reach.


They have a slight cant so it'll be less likely to get knocked off when manipulating the slide
Link Posted: 10/28/2016 12:03:28 AM EDT
[#24]
My most shot pistol is my M9.  Almost 4k and nary a malf.  And it's the most accurate I have right now.  My Kimber Custom II did beat it (It's gone).  I think my .22 Colt Huntsman might have it beat too.  But those are both very accurate pistols.  Or were/ are for me.
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