Yup....That's what I was told today from a holster manufacturer when I received my thumb break holster and the only way the back strap will fit around the pistol (M11A1) is if the hammer is set in the rear position to fire SA,
They know this because I was informed , "That's the way we were trained to carry them, so that's how we build them".

I referred them to the P Series owners manual available on Sig's website and told them that the proper way to carry a DA/SA pistol safely was with it decocked.

Nope....I'm wrong. Now I have a holster that is good for nothing unless I can modify the strap or make it an open top holster. I needed a holster with maximum retention for my paddling trips that take me on lakes and rivers, over beaver dams and through flooded tangles and portages where sometimes we have to wade though waist deep muck.

I was told that people carry pistols in many different ways and I should have specifically told them, upon ordering how I intended to carry this Sig.

Well.....I intend to, as I always do, to carry it safely and as recommended by the manufacturer

So...after many emails explaining the whole process of how and why it should not be carried with the hammer back in SA mode and them turning around and telling me that the proper way to carry a DA/SA with a live round in the chamber is to carry it with the hammer back, I give up

But....to "make it right", they said they were willing to do this:
- I pay to ship the old one back and a new one to me
-I pay a "restocking fee" of a custom holster to the tune of $24
- They will, in turn build me a new holster to fit my unreasonable expectation of the thumb break snap going around a hammer in the decock position, and not around a hammer cocked and ready to fire, as it is a 'special request" for a 50% discount.

All that would come within $10 of what I paid for , that was built wrong.

Unless you tell us who... the post has little value!

Not looking for "value", whatever that means.

I tried many times to work with these folks and they kept insisting that the P series pistols should be carried with the hammer back, even claiming that that's how they were trained to do it. Won't mention who trained them or what kind of training it was, of course.
I have the exact same holster for my P938 and it's actually pretty nice. Nice enough to try them again. The P938, of course is carried with the hammer back and the thumb break works very well. I had thought I would carry the 938 into the back country, but it has worked so well, I decided to carry it IWB as my main carry and I would use my M11A1 for my little adventures. I was looking forward to getting this holster. I never expected the run around I got instead.

I hate to "out" someone, as I really support small business, but they just outright screwed me. The company is MTR Custom Leather and the person I dealt with was Stephanie, who shares the same last name as the owner.


So, I guess if you have a specific need for a thumb break holster, which not many people do anymore, it would be best to avoid this company for any DA/SA pistol. Especially a Sig.

you do what you want to do, but we want to know who not to do business with.

and id just get a serpa duty, from what youve said you want to do it with

-----------------------

you just have to look at their pics to know they arent correct. the 1911's are supposed to be cocked and locked yet they have them with hammer forward

I had supplied that info in the post right above yours.

After tirelessly trying to be cool and work with them to find a solution, even perhaps sending it back to try and salvage it somehow, modifying it to even be something else like an open top, they still simply do not care.

The strap can not be stretched as far as it needs to go. It is unusable in it's current state.

if the hammer is cocked back and the strap is secure is it going to discharge if the hammer goes forward? or does it safetly cover the firing pin

Well, no, because the strap is in the way.

BUT...what about when you are unholstering it, or even worse, holstering it. You would have to have that hammer back on an SRT trigger.
Being a big fan of Sig and having my first around 1990, I find the decocker very comfortable, secure and familiar. It's a great system IMO.

Would you carry a DA/SA pistol this way? If you would. I'd like to know the reason why it wouldn't be an issue. To me, without that DA pull as a safety mechanism, I wouldn't feel as comfortable.

Sounds to me like they made a falty designe and came up with some BS story to cover it up.  Who would Cary that way?  Not me!  I use a level 2 Blackhawk serpa for situations like you stated and love it!

Thank you for posting their name, OP.

That's some SERIOUS derp.  They holster company is just one twitch away from a negligence law suit, IMO.

Safariland makes holsters for SIG P-series pistols at all levels of retention, for what it's worth.

NO ONE SHOULD CARRY A DA/SA PISTOL COCKED ON A LIVE ROUND!

I tried to explain that the way they build this holster could be a potential liability issue for them. They seemed unconcerned and never acknowledged it. But...they were "trained to carry the pistol with the hammer back". Of course, never mentioning who "trained" them

And then they told me I should have "specified" how I intended to carry this pistol and in failing to do so...I just got what I got.
There's no option box on their website for this and seriously....It's a DA/SA....how the hell else are you going to carry it?

The offer to "satisfy" my unreasonable request was laughable. They never could say they made it wrong, all the time swearing that the P series is made to be carried with the hammer back.

MTR Custom Leather should not be in this business.

Demand a refund in full and forget they exist.  Buy a real retention holster for what you're looking to do.  A Safariland ALS/SLS, Blackhawk Serpa, Blade Tech WRS, iTac Roto-Lock, or any other commercial off-the-shelf retention holster should suit you well.  Save the leather for when you're not working around water.

Good point about the leather.

The holster maker is not even considering making this right. I'm screwed out of just over $90 with shipping. They simply do not care that they put out products that do not work.

Sounds like they may be leather craftsmen but don't understand how various guns work.  

I would demand my money back, send a complaint to their local better business bureau, and move on.  They would not get another dime of my money.  You already know how they will stand behind their product in case you are not satisfied with it.

They won't budge. It's not so much being "unsatisfied" as it is the pistol doesn't even fit in what they made.

Then they tried to lie their way out of it. And then tried to convince me that the P series can be carried a number of ways and I didn't specify what condition I was intending on carrying it. That was the biggest joke.


They just couldn't come out and say they screwed up.

And then tried to get me to spend more money after that!

They claim that to have the retention strap go around a decocked hammer is a specific request.
Here's their one reply.....this is how fucked up they are...

Thank you for your email. I again apologize for the confusion of your order.
I completely understand what you are saying. And we will clarify that on our
website. If one is really concern how the holster is to be worn, or how the
item is to be manufactured, one should email before order, call to place
specific order, or put the specific notations in the comment section on the
website. I again apologize for all the miss-communications. There is no way
that we could manufacture your current Sig m11-A1 holster to accommodate the
change in position of the thumb break. We would have to re-make a new
holster for your Sig M11-A1 with the current changes, which would not be a
problem. I would just ask you to pay for shipping to ship the new holster
out to you $7.00 with an addition re-stocking fee of your current holster
$24.00. Then I will give you 50% off your new holster.

I hope this helps a little for understanding

Stephanie Rector

Now, I have this piece of shit holster, which can only be used if the hammer is back like a 1911, but is a DA/SA Sig. They are telling me it's a specific request to have it built like that because they believe it should be carried loaded with the hammer back.
"Completely understand what I'm saying?" I even asked them to go to Sig's site and read the owners manual. Nope....easier to rip someone off.

From my understanding MTR is a very small business. I have purchased two holsters from them and both were for SIGs. But neither had a thumb strap. Both were bought at a local gun show. The lady I have dealt with at the gun show was nice. However, I got the feeling she was the guy's wife or girlfriend. She was better looking then what her knowledge of firearms seemed to be. Not sure if this lady was Stephanie or not.

Have you asked to speak with the owner?

Also, did you use your credit card? I suggest trying to talk with your credit card company as you were sold/bought a defective item that the company is refusing to make right. Just a suggestion.

Thank you, I'll look into that. being a custom holster, I had already paid for it a while ago.

Wow. Just wow. That's pretty high speed stupid on their part.


And they look like very nice looking holsters.

I'd ask them who trained then that way.

I'd also get ahold of some of the Sig Academy staff for their advice on carry technique which i would promptly forward to the holster maker.

I'd also raise hell about this safety issue and send them links to your bad reviews until it's either made right or hot run out of places to bad mouth them.

What a moron! He's so full of shit. I would send that holster back to them with a note asking them to toss in in the garbage where it belongs, before it gets someone hurt.

1. Post in GD.

2. Get 87 page thread going.

3. Send link to holster company.

4. ????

5. Profit.

Welcome. I hope they make this right for you. I to believe in supporting small companies. The people I have met at the gun show working the booths seem to be very nice people. They make some nice holsters. I was planning on buying a couple more from them but I think I will wait to watch what happens here. I do not support dumb small businesses and some of the statements made by them as reported by you seem to be really dumb. SIGs are not meant to be carried cocked unless we are talking P238, P938, or the 1911s.

I don't like carrying "Cocked and Locked" personally, and I would NEVER carry "Cocked and UNlocked".  A holster like that would ONLY work with a SAO with a safety.  Since the vast majority of Sig's are DA/SA I would think the onus is on them to ask if you have a SAO since that is an uncommon Sig.  Since the M11-A1 is not offered in SAO it really makes it a no-brainer.

Sounds like utter BS.  Dangerous.  Bad business practice.  Holster design is contrary to the safe operating procedures of the gun spelled out in the owner's manual.
Thanks for the heads up as I would never want to buy a holster from them.


ETA: I would send a written letter to Sig and have them send you an official letter clarifying that it is not safe/against their operating recommendations to carry an M11-A1 cocked and send a copy of it, along with a copy of the owner's manual page describing use of the decokcer/safe carrying practice and send it to them certified mail.  May not make a difference, but certified mail tends to get people's attention more than e-mails etc.  It really is a dangerous product that they are selling.
If they are going to change their website to indicate accurately the holster (as you mentioned earlier) they should put in bold face "This holster design goes against the safe handling recommendations set forth by Sig Arms, use at your own risk"

You know what pisses me off?
I had spent a lot of time explaining the carry method of the DA/SA pistols to them including where they can find the info right from Sig on what is the safe way to carry. I tried to be really cool about it.

They never admitted that they don't know what they are even talking about, just going back to, "Everyone carries one differently" and "We were trained to carry it the way we sent it to you"

Plus, this horse shit about it being a very specific mode of carry I requested should have been specified as a special order really burns my ass.

I believe they just needed to shove this one off on someone they thought was unsuspecting. It's probably come back a time or two.

And then, you not make good on a obviously wrongly made product and come back to me for even more money is insane.

Do not do business with these people.

Imagine the shitstorm that would be!

how about a picture of said holster?

If they proudly stand behind being full derp, no reason to feel bad about posting their name.   I would ask for their trainer and tell them to get a new one.   I have heard a lot of dumb shit, but this is the first time I have heard anyone saying a SA/DA pistol should be carried cocked.   Esp one without a safety.

Can they agree to cut off the back strap and maybe there is enough retention to keep it for other less strenuous uses?

but in all fairness, a cocked and locked da/sa isnt going to go boom unless the triggers being pulled. and if you are holstering it and the triger gets snagged thats a bad holster.. and when you are drawing your finger shouldnt be on the trigger.

it wont go off on its own,

I just got a new iMac and it's all new to me. I tried to post before, but am still trying to figure it out.


But....after some forum members wrote to them asking what was up.....I was contacted after their deal to try to get me to buy another one and they say they will make one to my unusual configuration of safely having the retention strap go around a decocked hammer on a DA/SA pistol.

So....I'll box it up and send it back. I don't know if I'll actually see another. If I do, I will be surprised.

You realize the gun he's talking about has no safety so it can't he carried cocked and locked.

While what you say is true, it's also poorly advised...  

Perhaps if you had a CZ that was DA/SA and ALSO had a safety....but SIG's do not operate that way, nor are they meant to.

The POWER OF ARF!

"unusual configuration" indeed...

These must also be custom, unusual configurations then?  All taken off of their Facebook page.  Get what you can and distance yourself from them.  There are not only more competent, but also more skilled holster manufacturers that put out a visibly better product for the same money these guys are charging.  

There's that whole thing with mechanical firing pin blocks that don't retract until the trigger is pulled which should mean it's as safe as if the hammer were down.
But... you're one step closer to trouble if there is any sort of mechanical failure and I'll buy a membership for anybody that can show me an manufacturer's user's manual that advises to carry a DA/SA without a safety with the hammer back stuffed into a holster.

you don't carry a P series sig with the hammer locked back.

They seem to be on the right page now as the heat has been turned up and they know people are watching. I gave them every opportunity first.

I want them to maybe learn from this. Both in what is safe and what the customer expects.

By the time it is done (a few weeks), I will have learned how to post pics from my iPhoto on this new Apple showing the old one and the new.

I own another holster by them and it's very nice. It's why I went back. I never expected this kind of run around.

While it sucks to be out $90 or thereabouts with shipping, I'm not even interested about seeing anything. I was not even going to respond back to them and just eat the loss. But being in small business myself, I thought it was wrong for them to not try to redeem themselves on this gross error of theirs, even though they still believe That even the manufacturer of the pistol is wrong.

I respect small business and owe it to them to show that they can make it right and I'll then bring the proof here. They should be in business to stay in business and grow it if they choose to. I hope they learn from this, overcome it and eventually become successful. We are not here to run people out on rails. That is wrong. We should be advocates and let vendors know that we watch, compare and care about where our dollars go in this industry.

If all this makes them a little stronger in customer service, or they get down to learning more about the products that they make products for, then it;s a win for everyone. I will give them that chance.

If the first two pics of holsters are from this companies site, they look a lot like the first holster I was issued for my M9 when we first started carrying them after converting from the Model 15 (USAF/ANG Security Forces). Unfortunately that was many years ago so I can't remember the manufacturer. I'd (and I think everyone on this thread) would like to know who "trained" these guys? Also, how many other people have they "trained" (hopefully no one). I'm still scratching my head over their reasoning, you don't carry a DA/SA with the hammer back (I think that's the whole point of DA/SA).

NO!!!!

Seems like some of the mess falls into your lap.
#1 You ordered the holster. You should asked pertinent questions
#2 Your failure to get CLARITY before ordering a CUSTOM holster is the root problem.
#3 You, while their lack of insight is obvious, can while piss and moan all over the internet about sour grapes....
is simply does not excuse your part in the while debacle!
#4 Swallow hard and move on.  There are far more important things life.  Hell I bet you have pissed away that much money in bar some nights!

Are you SERIOUS???? No holster maker in their right mind would make a holster that was unsafe for the model weapon.  THAT IS WHAT THEY DID.  He told them what weapon he had.  They made an unsafe holster.  What is your misunderstanding of this..???

He is warning other potential buyers of an obvious issue with these merchants.  And being very courteous about it in my opinion.  He has not slammed them like some posters would.  You need to go back and read the whole thread..

enough