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Posted: 7/4/2016 8:56:20 AM EDT
real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 9:03:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?
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No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 11:49:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.
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Sharp sticks worked great once upon a time, too. We improved on that. Glock will improve on Glock.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 1:35:54 PM EDT
[#4]
They just put out a spec for what they want, Glock didn't have to submit.

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Quoted:
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.
View Quote

Link Posted: 7/4/2016 1:54:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 2:15:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Maybe Glock will release a paddle mag release for am I release! . If that happens you know the carbine is coming very soon after as well.

I bet they will just make a Gen4 with no finger grooves and call it a day.
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 2:33:17 PM EDT
[#7]
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I think it's hilarious. The specs were pretty obviously designed with one particular pistol in mind. Having that pistol still lose to Glock is just great.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
They just put out a spec for what they want, Glock didn't have to submit.

Quoted:
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.



I think it's hilarious. The specs were pretty obviously designed with one particular pistol in mind. Having that pistol still lose to Glock is just great.


Which pistol?
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 2:34:25 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


Which pistol?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They just put out a spec for what they want, Glock didn't have to submit.

Quoted:
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.



I think it's hilarious. The specs were pretty obviously designed with one particular pistol in mind. Having that pistol still lose to Glock is just great.


Which pistol?


P320 Sig
Link Posted: 7/4/2016 2:57:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I really do not see Glock doing a complete redesign of their frame/locking block/frame rails to satisfy some paper-pusher requirement that grip frames be swappable between "guns" (serialized frames)... Generally, if someone wants a different sized gun, they'll buy a few that size.



I am interested to see if it turns out to be a non-finger groove Gen 4 style frame, maybe with better backstraps, and maybe front straps and grip panels, ala HK.


Link Posted: 7/4/2016 11:04:38 PM EDT
[#10]
I didn't read it, what's the time frame for delivery?
Link Posted: 7/5/2016 10:42:22 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


P320 Sig
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They just put out a spec for what they want, Glock didn't have to submit.

Quoted:
Sounds like the FBI needs to pi$ off. Why do I hate when people try to change glocks. I guess I'm always afraid they'll. Take such a simple thing and make it complicated.



I think it's hilarious. The specs were pretty obviously designed with one particular pistol in mind. Having that pistol still lose to Glock is just great.


Which pistol?


P320 Sig


Why did they lose? I heard it was something about magazines breaking when dropped on concrete or something because of a hokey baseplate design?
Link Posted: 7/5/2016 10:52:17 AM EDT
[#12]
Of course all this news comes just after I buy a Gen 4.  

Be nice if there was a way to get a frame.
Link Posted: 7/5/2016 10:55:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Interchangeable trigger modules are a fad. Conversions cost damn near what a new handgun costs. I'd much rather just have a second, separate firearm.
Link Posted: 7/5/2016 3:26:33 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:



No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?



No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.


They need to improve the mag well.  It sucks.  And the mag release isn't the greatest either.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 8:34:59 AM EDT
[#15]
So has anyone seen a spy photo of these modular Glocks?  Do they really exist?  Or did Fed's toss out some of the requirements after realizing they were stupid?
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 9:17:37 AM EDT
[#16]
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So has anyone seen a spy photo of these modular Glocks?  Do they really exist?  Or did Fed's toss out some of the requirements after realizing they were stupid?
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At this point we are not sure if FBI just chose Glock because they already had holsters or if Glock is making a new pistol for the FBI as spec-ed out.  For all we know the FBI is adopting the Gen4 Glock as is.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 9:26:10 AM EDT
[#17]
I have just assumed they would get delivered a Gen 4 w/o finger grooves, ambi mag release and good sights.  Nope of that is a big leap for Glock.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 9:33:42 AM EDT
[#18]
The ambi mag release is easy. They've already released one pistol with it, and a LOT of mags have the metal area on the front to support it. Ambi slide stop lever is another story.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 11:49:14 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


At this point we are not sure if FBI just chose Glock because they already had holsters or if Glock is making a new pistol for the FBI as spec-ed out.  For all we know the FBI is adopting the Gen4 Glock as is.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
So has anyone seen a spy photo of these modular Glocks?  Do they really exist?  Or did Fed's toss out some of the requirements after realizing they were stupid?


At this point we are not sure if FBI just chose Glock because they already had holsters or if Glock is making a new pistol for the FBI as spec-ed out.  For all we know the FBI is adopting the Gen4 Glock as is.


That's what I'm thinking.  But of course I have nothing to back it up.  Just a hunch.  


Link Posted: 7/7/2016 11:56:34 AM EDT
[#20]

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Quoted:
No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?






No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.


Ambi like gen 4 ambi or the old G21 ambis?



 
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 4:12:11 PM EDT
[#21]
Shoudn't be hard to CNC a new Gen4 mold with no finger grooves.

After 18 months or so, Glock will release the Gen4 FBI series to the civilian market...and people will gobble them up...like always.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 5:37:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Glock doesn't have to build to those specs to win the contract. They could have submitted a regular gen 4 and said take it or leave it.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 6:59:33 PM EDT
[#23]
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Glock doesn't have to build to those specs to win the contract. They could have submitted a regular gen 4 and said take it or leave it.
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+1
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 8:22:33 PM EDT
[#24]
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Ambi slide stop lever is another story.
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and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 8:57:17 PM EDT
[#25]
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and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ambi slide stop lever is another story.

and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the slide stop to release the slide when shooting.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 10:36:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Just finished a Glock Armorers course today and both the LE rep and the instructor seemed to be pretty in the know about the new pistol.

No finger grooves and no coil trigger spring like Gen 1-4 guns, will have the same spring like on the 42s and 43s.

Who knows, time will tell.
Link Posted: 7/7/2016 11:08:42 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the slide stop to release the slide when shooting.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ambi slide stop lever is another story.

and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the slide stop to release the slide when shooting.


Your doing it right, its a slide STOP not a slide release.. That's what you are supposed to do.

Link Posted: 7/8/2016 12:01:40 AM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


Your doing it right, its a slide STOP not a slide release.. That's what you are supposed to do.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ambi slide stop lever is another story.

and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the slide stop to release the slide when shooting.


Your doing it right, its a slide STOP not a slide release.. That's what you are supposed to do.


Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 12:04:13 AM EDT
[#29]


 
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 9:38:21 AM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?
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Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 10:04:06 AM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
Just finished a Glock Armorers course today and both the LE rep and the instructor seemed to be pretty in the know about the new pistol.

No finger grooves and no coil trigger spring like Gen 1-4 guns, will have the same spring like on the 42s and 43s.

Who knows, time will tell.
View Quote


Took my course at Glock a month or so ago, instructors and rep said the same, they like the 42/43 changes and wanted to incorporate them on every model, eventually.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 1:35:00 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.



Yeah, I wasn't meaning others shouldn't use it that way.  I personally don't find the small slide stop a problem.  I'm not a comp shooter.  I just overhand it.  In fact, it's an upside to me.  Less likely to ride it.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 1:40:29 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:


+1
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Quoted:
Glock doesn't have to build to those specs to win the contract. They could have submitted a regular gen 4 and said take it or leave it.


+1


Not possible.  If the weapon doesn't meet the Statement of Work it gets disqualified.  They would have to dump the contract and start the process over to just go with a Gen 4.  Every other manufacturer would jump on that lawsuit.  David
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 1:46:07 PM EDT
[#34]
First thing I thought of reading the requirements was a "big boy" G43 style frame.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 2:27:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.


So do face shooters.   Take a Vickers course.  Either way is fine as long it gets the gun going again.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 2:28:49 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:
Took my course at Glock a month or so ago, instructors and rep said the same, they like the 42/43 changes and wanted to incorporate them on every model, eventually.
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That's cool.  Feels like it gives some extra credibility to the 42 and 43.  I really like the 43.  
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 3:45:36 PM EDT
[#37]
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That's cool.  Feels like it gives some extra credibility to the 42 and 43.  I really like the 43.  
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Quoted:
Took my course at Glock a month or so ago, instructors and rep said the same, they like the 42/43 changes and wanted to incorporate them on every model, eventually.


That's cool.  Feels like it gives some extra credibility to the 42 and 43.  I really like the 43.  


Time will tell if it IS as good.  But I do think having now finger grooves would be a good thing.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 4:21:06 PM EDT
[#38]
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So do face shooters.   Take a Vickers course.  Either way is fine as long it gets the gun going again.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.


So do face shooters.   Take a Vickers course.  Either way is fine as long it gets the gun going again.


My issue is that it should reflect how the FBI teaches it's agents how to shoot.  If the FBI firearms curriculum stipulates that agents slingshot the slide into battery for two handed use or using a belt or shoe heel for one handed use, then an ambi slide stop shouldn't be a factor.  It's kind of the same thinking where agencies say they want a hammer fired pistol for "second strike capability" on a dud.  If the curriculum teaches some form of emergency action drill (which pretty much everyone does) and not pulling the trigger again on a dud round (which pretty much no one does), why the hell would you incorporate that into a statement of work?  It runs counter to how you are trying to train your officers. The whole idea is to get a firearm that fits what you want to do with it, to include how you want to train your people.  

I'm not going to argue the pros/cons of one method or the other, just that the final form of the pistol needs to be conducive to how you want the officers trained.  Maybe the FBI teaches it's agents to use the slide stop to get the slide back in battery; if so, then the ambi stop makes sense.  If not, it doesn't.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 4:57:49 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:  No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.
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?  As in different magazines?  Oh the noes.  
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 6:12:27 PM EDT
[#40]

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Quoted:
No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?






No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.




 
Same ejection?
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 8:39:44 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:


My issue is that it should reflect how the FBI teaches it's agents how to shoot.  If the FBI firearms curriculum stipulates that agents slingshot the slide into battery for two handed use or using a belt or shoe heel for one handed use, then an ambi slide stop shouldn't be a factor.  It's kind of the same thinking where agencies say they want a hammer fired pistol for "second strike capability" on a dud.  If the curriculum teaches some form of emergency action drill (which pretty much everyone does) and not pulling the trigger again on a dud round (which pretty much no one does), why the hell would you incorporate that into a statement of work?  It runs counter to how you are trying to train your officers. The whole idea is to get a firearm that fits what you want to do with it, to include how you want to train your people.  

I'm not going to argue the pros/cons of one method or the other, just that the final form of the pistol needs to be conducive to how you want the officers trained.  Maybe the FBI teaches it's agents to use the slide stop to get the slide back in battery; if so, then the ambi stop makes sense.  If not, it doesn't.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?

Especially when it comes stock on the 34/35.  Comp shooters use the slide stop all the time.  It is faster.


So do face shooters.   Take a Vickers course.  Either way is fine as long it gets the gun going again.


My issue is that it should reflect how the FBI teaches it's agents how to shoot.  If the FBI firearms curriculum stipulates that agents slingshot the slide into battery for two handed use or using a belt or shoe heel for one handed use, then an ambi slide stop shouldn't be a factor.  It's kind of the same thinking where agencies say they want a hammer fired pistol for "second strike capability" on a dud.  If the curriculum teaches some form of emergency action drill (which pretty much everyone does) and not pulling the trigger again on a dud round (which pretty much no one does), why the hell would you incorporate that into a statement of work?  It runs counter to how you are trying to train your officers. The whole idea is to get a firearm that fits what you want to do with it, to include how you want to train your people.  

I'm not going to argue the pros/cons of one method or the other, just that the final form of the pistol needs to be conducive to how you want the officers trained.  Maybe the FBI teaches it's agents to use the slide stop to get the slide back in battery; if so, then the ambi stop makes sense.  If not, it doesn't.


I train police officers as well as recruits on firearms.  Many of the recruits have little to no experience with handguns.  The left handed shooters have a much more difficult time locking the slide open than the right handed shooters.  Dropping the slide is not the only variable.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 9:06:12 PM EDT
[#42]
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  Same ejection?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
real or rumor?  No finger grooves and removeable trigger firing module ala Sig P250/320 and KelTec P11?



No grooves, different magwell, and ambi slide release is the rumor I heard.

  Same ejection?

Touché
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 11:15:31 PM EDT
[#43]
42 and 43 still use coil springs - they're just different.
Link Posted: 7/8/2016 11:22:03 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?
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It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.

If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.

Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 12:06:00 AM EDT
[#45]

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Quoted:
It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.



If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.



Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.

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Quoted:



Quoted:



Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?




It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.



If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.



Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.



You know how I know you don't own a shot timer??...



 
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 12:36:56 AM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.

If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.

Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?


It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.

If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.

Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.

Pressing the trigger to the rear is a fine motor skill and I can do it just fine in a stressful situation. Excuses excuses.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 12:54:28 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:


Your doing it right, its a slide STOP not a slide release.. That's what you are supposed to do.

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ambi slide stop lever is another story.

and quite unnecessary too.  slingshot or use the rear sight.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever used the slide stop to release the slide when shooting.


Your doing it right, its a slide STOP not a slide release.. That's what you are supposed to do.



you might want to read your Glock manual sometime
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 1:25:20 AM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:
Shoudn't be hard to CNC a new Gen4 mold with no finger grooves.

After 18 months or so, Glock will release the Gen4 FBI series to the civilian market...and people will gobble them up...like always.
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Or get busy with the Dremel
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 1:29:09 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:   Same ejection?
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In your face is technically ambidextrous.
Link Posted: 7/9/2016 2:49:14 AM EDT
[#50]

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Pressing the trigger to the rear is a fine motor skill and I can do it just fine in a stressful situation. Excuses excuses.
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Then why do they texture it and make an extended version?




It's designed to be pushed UP. Some will argue that it's "faster" to push down when reloading. That may be the case when you're on the range or in the class. The problem is when you're in a critical incident, and your Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS) activates, your fine motor skills degrade substantially. Flipping the slide stop lever with your thumb is a fine motor skill. The same can be said about the slingshot method of cycling the slide. You still have only a single digit on one side of the slide.



If you think of the immediate action drill, it's hand over the top of the slide, "grip it and rip it". Use the same for releasing the slide during reloads. Same movement, and it uses gross motor skills.



Also, notice Glock never refers to it as a slide RELEASE. And it's only mentioned once in the manual as an alternative method for releasing the slide, with stress on the grip it and rip it method. All other references are that it's for pushing UP to lock the slide open.



Pressing the trigger to the rear is a fine motor skill and I can do it just fine in a stressful situation. Excuses excuses.
Yes, but the trigger finger is also in a more natural position when gripping the frame.



 
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