Do those start out with factory trigger bars?

As far as I know, yes. The Agency Arms trigger only comes with a Gen 3 bar (can be used in a Gen 4), but the Suarez trigger is available with either a Gen 3 bar or a Gen 4 bar. I got the Gen 3 version, but I will be using it in a Gen 4.

I've been looking at both there options.  Can't wait for your report.

Looking forward to the comparison, thanks!

I want a 45 version.

I'm a fan of flat triggers in my 18" LaRue Stealth and 1911s with 10-8 Performance trigger.

Big Glock fan and carry them for work daily so looking forward to your evaluation.

Awesome. This very well may become the most useful thread of the year!

well the SI is 50 bucks cheaper

I think id get the agency arms trigger just to avoid dealing with Suarez


Nevertheless, interested in the results

I noticed that the AA bar comes with a connector. Is it factory? what weight is it?

Ive shot both at a local handgun class, and I like the feel of the AA better. The Suarez unit had a MUCH heavier pull than the Arms, but has virtually no pretravel or takeup. Its possible that the Agency comes with a lighter connector and I cant confirm or deny as I don't know, but it was much more fun to shoot in my experience.

Granted I got about 10rds to shoot on each gun, so big grain of salt here.

I want to try the AA.  Looking forward to your review.

According to Agency Arms, the connector included in their kit is an OEM "-" connector. Yes, it is $50 more than the Suarez, but the Suarez doesn't include a connector ($20) at all. So the price difference is actually less than it might seem at first glance.



My first observation is that Agency Arms polishes their trigger bar only on the tail end where it contacts the connector. The Suarez trigger bar is fully polished.

Think I would be able to throw my ZEV V4 race connector that I absolutely love in either one of these or are they changing angles, etc where the connector meets the "cross"

they shouldnt be modifying the trigger bar so any connector should work

Damn I really want to try out the AA trigger. I really just don't want to spend the $150 to find that I don't like it.

I have no interest in the SI trigger...

I understand all the internet negativity for Mr. Suarez. I've read all about him. That being said, if the SI trigger works as well or better than the AA trigger, and it's cheaper, I don't give a shit what logo is engraved on it... I'll buy more.

also are they letting you keep the AA? as I would love to see a comparison to a unploished and a polished AA.

as the first thing i do is polish all my triggers anyways

Letting me keep it? I bought both triggers myself.

I had some time tonight, so I swapped the SI trigger into my Gen 4 G19 test mule. I've had the AA trigger in it for a few weeks (two range trips and a LOT of dryfire), so I figured I'd give the SI a whirl and see how it stacks up.















After dryfiring it the very first time, my first impression was... HOLY SH*T!



I've tried a few triggers that claimed to be a "1911 trigger for a Glock". This is it. Seriously. Holy sh*t. The closest thing I can think of to compare it to is the Apex FSS kit for the M&P.



There is basically no (zero, nada) pretravel, a crisp break and a bit of overtravel. It's so short and crisp that I think I might go back to the heavier factory connector (have the Glock "-" connector in there now) before I take it for live fire. Live fire will be the real test, but, did I say holy sh*t yet?

I've got the royal arms triggers in two of my glocks and it looks exactly the same as these, and what you described is exactly how they feel.

Who in the EE has the SI trigger?

There was a guy selling one that he installed and didn't use because after he felt it, he was concerned that it was too short and light of a pull to carry. I'm running a Ghost spring kit, an Apex striker block and a factory "-" connector and I can see what he meant. I'm going to play around with it a bit and (maybe) put the factory connector and springs back in it to see how/if it changes the characteristics of the SI trigger.



I can only imagine what my face must've looked like the first time I pulled that trigger.

BlahBlah,

Did you have the same initial feeling with the AA when you first tried it or is the SI trigger really that much better?

What do you think the function of pretravel is in a Glock?

So you like the SI more? And it's $100? Hmmmmm. Might have to try.

well you said try out so one would assume test

The way I view the trigger pull on a Glock, there are four stages.



1. Pretravel - The free movement of the trigger at the start of the pull.

2. The second stage is the small bit of travel when you feel the resistance kick in as the striker is cocked and the striker block is depressed.

3. Break - This is self-explanatory.

4. Overtravel - The free movement of the trigger beginning at the break and ending when the trigger can't/won't travel any further to the rear.



With the Agency Arms trigger, stages 1 and 4 are greatly reduced from a factory trigger. With the Suarez trigger, stage 1 is completely gone. That's why the previous owner of the SI trigger was hesitant to run it in a carry gun. Stages 2 and 3 are pretty similar between the two triggers.



I did the drop safety test on both triggers (which they both passed) and I watched the trigger bar engagement on the striker block through the empty magwell as I pulled the trigger multiple times. All of the safeties seem to be functional on both triggers.



I'm not sure I would say that I liked the SI trigger better at this point. Like the previous owner of the SI trigger, I'm a little intimidated by it, actually. I am surprised how different the two triggers are. I have some spring and connector swapping to do (and much more dryfire and range time) before I make that decision on which one is staying in this G19. This is eventually going to be a do-it-all gun for me, so I'm looking for a trigger with that in mind.

Is the main concern on the SI trigger that the drop safety is no longer active due to the lack of pre-travel?  That would be my first thought.  Do you have the Glock armorer back plate to verify the drop safety is still active?

The test that I've seen for the drop safety is to push down on top of the trigger bar's crucifix (no slide on the gun) to make sure it doesn't move when the trigger is forward. They both pass that test.



My main concern is that the trigger pull is light, short and immediate. I'm planning on putting the heavier factory springs and connector back in it to see if that eases my mind. Like I said, I haven't live fired it yet, so I'll get some more reps under my belt before I decide. Like when the FSS kit came out for the M&P, Apex recommended not carrying it unless you used a manual safety, or using it for a range/competition gun only.



If this was a range only gun, the SI trigger would be a permanent fixture, hands down. I just need to feel it out a bit more to decide if I want to carry it.

The drop safety test I am talking about with armorer's back plate is done with the slide on exactly how it would be when carried.  The armorer's back plate is a half back plate that lets you push down on the trigger bar crucifix to verify if it drops or not.

I am not sure if the test without the slide is 100% accurate since the trigger bar crucifix may not be in the same exact location as when the slide is on and it is resting on the striker.

Either way I look forward to your review on both of these triggers.  

The other change that's made is that the trigger safety size is greatly reduced compared to the factory trigger safety, presumably so that the flat face of the trigger can be vertical when at rest. On a factory trigger the trigger safety serves a secondary purpose in a drop of not letting the trigger bar move far enough back to disengage the firing pin safety, even if the cruciform moves off the drop safety ledge.

I don't know why there's not more empirical testing of these -- it seems most people are satisfied with manufacturer claims and theoretical testing with an armorer tool. I would encourage you to actually drop your gun on the grip a few times and see what happens. I have, and I switched back to a factory trigger immediately.

The armorer back plate test isn't theoretical.  If the trigger bar cruciform is not properly resting on the drop safety ledge it will allow the trigger bar to be pushed down just like if the gun was dropped.  What triggers did you do the drop test on?  Just curious if you have tried it on the AA or the SI triggers.

I have drop tested the AA with a half/armorers cover and it's fine.  Well, the TWO I've tested are fine (I probably shouldn't extrapolate a small sample to all, BUT for what people are paying, I think someone would mention an issue if they found one).  I'm writing up my report now, though I'm going to do one more range trip.

** One thing I like about the AA, that I can't see on the SI, is the indexed angle where you know where your finger is on the trigger....does the SI have anything at the bottom that tells you you're in the same spot as last shot?

Yes, I tested the SI trigger and the very first drop had a released striker. I repeated the test and within 10 drops achieved the same results (most those 10 drops I did not get the gun to land on the grip). So the striker was released, what about the firing pin safety? The reduced size of the trigger safety (when still engaged) allowed the trigger bar to move far enough back to disengage the firing pin safety when the cruciform dropped (tested with the armorer plate and looking through the mag well), so I believe a drop that defeated the drop safety would be really bad/loud.

I recognize that the armorer back plate test is what the industry generally accepts, but I submit that the armorer back plate test is really only accurate for a factory Glock trigger, where the plate rests fully into the drop safety ledge. Just pushing down with a tool apparently does not replicate the type of forces an actual drop can. Pressing straight down on the SI trigger cruciform would not release the striker (because it sits right on the edge of the drop safety ledge), but levering the cruciform down (and slightly back) would release it. That "slightly back" is I assume the force generated from the real drops that caused the striker release. That amount of force would not be sufficient to get a factory cruciform from its normal resting place.

Of course the circumstances surrounding such a drop... first that you had one of these triggers in the gun, second that you drop the gun, third that it lands on the grip, etc would be pretty rare so everyone has to weight the benefits/risks. The benefits are huge -- I loved the trigger feel -- but the risks would always have nagged at me. It's easy to say "I'll never drop a gun" and that's a good Plan A. But Plan B is pretty far out of your control.

But hey, I'm just a guy on the Internet. Maybe it's not fair to test with a "what does it take to make this fail" approach vs a "I like this product, let me do some minimal tests to validate my preference" approach. Some may suggest it was just my Glocks (I tested the trigger in a few) or that my real-drop testing method is flawed because it's not the accepted method, or that I have an anti-SI agenda -- despite the fact that I've trained with SI among others, was an early adopter of their RMR products, etc. I hope everyone will do their own research, understand how all the Glock safeties work together, recognize that the people producing accessories are trying to make a buck, read the fine print about liability, and make your own risk/reward decisions. Just don't take any manufacturers' advertising and "we've tested it, it's good" claims at face value when it comes to safety issues if it seems too good to be true, no matter what personality is endorsing it. Even big gun manufacturers have safety recalls, and they have much bigger engineering and testing budgets than small aftermarket outfits.

SI was very good about taking the trigger back.

Vandal,

I believe we are on the same page.  I agree a real drop test is definitely a legit way to verify the drop safety is working.  As for the flat triggers I am still on the fence because I believe their cost to benefit ratio doesn't really work for $500 pistol. IMHO, more training will go a longer way than adding a third party manufactured part to your pistol.

Solid thread, tagged.

I swapped the triggers back-and-forth about 6 times today (it was raining, nothing else to do) and did a bunch of poking, prodding and dry firing with both triggers. I see the issue that people might have with the drop safety ledge and the Suarez trigger. It rides the edge of the ledge (only about 1/3 of the bar on the ledge), but it doesn't move in my testing without the slide. With the slide, it seems like the partially cocked striker (under spring tension) would also help hold it in place on the ledge. So, I'm not sure it's an issue.



The Agency Arms trigger doesn't ride the ledge like the Suarez trigger does. That explains the extra pre-travel.



I've read all 18 pages of the M4C Skimmer trigger debate (the Skimmer is accused of defeating the drop safety for the same reasons), and I read Vandal's posts in a thread on the drop safety on pistol-forum.com - I'm aware of the potential issue and how to test/check for it. I'm just not sure that pushing on the crucifix with a Glock tool or whatever accurately replicates a physical drop.



We'll see... I have more testing to do! Now that I'm delving in to this particular issue, I'm going to break out my other Glocks with custom triggers (Zev Fulcrums and Zev Standards) and see how they stack up. I guess I opened a can of worms, but I just ordered an armorer's plate. I'll get this figured out!



For all those saying I should spend more money on ammo and practice more, I will just say this... You have no idea how many rounds I've put through my guns and how often I practice.

Installed one in my 19, I have moved to Flat triggers in my AR and was curios to see how I would like it. It's staying in. It's not an oh shit moment but more of a that's very nice in my opinion. I don't really want an oh shit moment in my 19 just reliable and easier to shoot is what I have been searching for, Much better for me to shoot hands down, but that a subjective measure of course.

Thanks OP your thread inspired me to finally jump on one.

I spent some time with the Suarez trigger at the range this weekend. Everything I noted in my dry fire transferred directly to the range. The Suarez trigger is as 1911 like as anything I've ever tried in a polymer, striker fired pistol. It really is pretty amazing.



I have more safety testing to do yet, and then I need to decide if I want something that short and crisp in a gun that I plan on carrying full time.



The Agency Arms trigger IS a noticeable upgrade from the factory trigger, and I like the shape, length and feel of the trigger shoe better than the Suarez trigger. Decisions, decisions.

I can't believe I'm such a slow learner but I'm tempted to try the AA trigger just to repeat my drop tests. I do think the flat trigger is easier to shoot accurately.

Nice looking setup! Maybe just the camera angle, but tip of trigger seems very close to trigger guard. Do you have an concern that a foreign object could interfere with trigger travel?

Mike

Nice looking setup! Maybe just the camera angle, but tip of trigger seems very close to trigger guard. Do you have an concern that a foreign object could interfere with trigger travel?

Mike


The camera angle makes it look closer than it is, it is indeed closer than stock but not a concern I would have.

got mine today. i paid 125 just so i could have a spare trigger housing for parts

there is no pretravel at all. it feels weird but sure just need to get used to it.

the resets maybe the same. though i think it may be a little longer. though i am comparing it to my sig srt

i wish theyd really polish the trigger bar though

Me too

I am impressed with the AA trigger. Next step is swap some springs to lighten it up , but overall happy with it. Is it necessary? No. Enjoyable. Yes.

I see there is a company called dues ex machinations coming out with a glock trigger that is flat as well.

Link

Do these flat triggers make a shorter reach like a 1911 short trigger?

 

why does yours look SOOO different than the one a few posts up?

I would say the reach to the AA trigger is about the same as factory. The SI trigger has a bit shorter reach than stock because they eliminated most of the pre-travel.







His is the Suarez trigger and the one a few posts up is the Agency Arms trigger.