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FAC
Sturmgewehre
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:07:55 PM
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Henny
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NRAMilitary
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:35:18 PM
As an owner of both a 21SF and a Gen4 21, I find your review a very honest and accurate comparison. Good job!
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
FAC
Sturmgewehre
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Posted: 7/29/2012 9:56:32 PM
Thank you, sir. I try to be as honest as possible in my opinions. I know they can ruffle some feathers, but I remind folks that it's just one mans opinion. Some folks like and use the grip panels for example. To me, they're after thoughts that really don't belong on the pistol.

Thanks for watching.
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Henny
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:12:14 PM
Yeah, I thought it would be better if Glock would have designed the replaceable back straps so the "hump" could be decreased or eliminated. All in all though, I still like the Gen4.
"...But there's also this: there are over 5,000 men in this city, who know that being a policeman is an endless, glamourless, thankless job that's gotta be done. I know it, too, and I'm damn glad to be one of them." Joe Friday
Garandboy
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:13:36 PM
Thanks for that review. I really like my Gen3 21SF and thought about getting a Gen4. May just hold off if the difference is so minor. Wonder if the 30 is a bigger difference.
Handy little carbine. The M44 is a combination flash bang grenade, flame thrower, rifle and spear all in one.
FAC
Sturmgewehre
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:40:51 PM
I haven't had much experience with the 30's. They're just too small and awkward for me. If I wanted a tiny .45 for concealed carry, I think I would be inclined to go the XDS route.
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Buck_Naked
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:24:07 AM
Interesting review... I noticed during the accuracy test, round 7 bounced off your forearm... have you had any other emptys hit you on the head or anywhere else other than the standard ejection path?

I recently purchased a Gen 3 21 SF, and having the occasional hiccup with ejection much like the reported issues with some of the newer 9 MM's, and wondering if anyone else is seeing this...

Willz
Hoisting the black flag...
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Posted: 7/30/2012 3:04:50 AM
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Interesting review... I noticed during the accuracy test, round 7 bounced off your forearm... have you had any other emptys hit you on the head or anywhere else other than the standard ejection path?

I recently purchased a Gen 3 21 SF, and having the occasional hiccup with ejection much like the reported issues with some of the newer 9 MM's, and wondering if anyone else is seeing this...



When I used my Gen 4 G21 to shoot IDPA for the first time since I bought it I had only one odd case ejection issue.
One piece of hot brass went over my head and down the back of my shit collar and stuck there.
All my previous range trips, it tossed brass to my 3 to 4 o'clock.
I've put several hundred rounds thru it so far and that's been the only issue.
""Surely something must be terribly wrong with a man who seems to be far more concerned with a Jew building a house in Israel than with a Muslim building a nuclear bomb in Iran."

FAC
Sturmgewehre
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Posted: 7/30/2012 10:21:48 AM
Great observation. No, no rounds have struck me in the face and I rarely notice where they land when shooting - so they're not hitting me in a distracting area. However, I do notice the gun tends to throw empties over my shoulder or in that direction.
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NateTheShake
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:53:24 AM
Couldn't agree more on the grip panels and the recoil spring. IMHO the only improvement made in the Gen4 models is the mag release. The grip texture is meh, take it or leave it, the old one never bothered me. The recoil spring does nothing except make the small pile of older recoil springs I have in my parts box useless. The grip panels are downright stupid and this is coming from a Glock fan. When has anyone looked at a Glock and said "you know what that's nice, but could you make it even bigger?" There just isn't a market for this and I agree the panels are nothing but a marketing device.
koz4guns
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Posted: 7/30/2012 12:12:45 PM
Good review,

But it's given in the context of someone who already owns a Gen 3 model, there are a lot of us that don't.
So if you were looking at it from the point of view that you don't have a model 21 already, which one would you choose?
Or better yet is there one you wouldn't choose and why?

Koz
NateTheShake
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Posted: 7/30/2012 1:00:25 PM
Originally Posted By koz4guns:
Good review,

But it's given in the context of someone who already owns a Gen 3 model, there are a lot of us that don't.
So if you were looking at it from the point of view that you don't have a model 21 already, which one would you choose?
Or better yet is there one you wouldn't choose and why?

Koz


I know I'm not the OP, but personally my advice to anyone asking between the Gen4 and the older models:

1. The SF model is the only previous model worth buying. The original G21 has an awkwardly large grip. Some people claim not to mind the oversized grip, but they are few and far between. IMO the G21SF should just be called the G21OWSHMITFPS (One We Should Have Made In The First Place, Sorry) or just Glock 21...
2. Most of the "features" of the Gen4's are just marketing gimmicks (texture, spring, grip panels)
3.The new magazine release is better than the older models.
4. Given no difference in price I would opt for the Gen4 for the new magazine release.
5. If there is a substantial (+$50) difference in price I'd get whichever is cheaper.
koz4guns
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Posted: 7/30/2012 2:17:39 PM
Yes the Gen 3 SF would be the only one I would consider other than the Gen 4 model.
And I know that the Gen 4's cost a little more but you do get 3 Mag's with them also.

I guess my point is, sure if you already have a Gen 3 I don't see a big reason to run out and get a Gen 4
but if you don't, what would be the down side to the Gen 4 model, I don't really see one.

Koz
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Posted: 7/31/2012 2:35:25 AM
[Last Edit: 7/31/2012 2:38:29 AM by Swat_dude]
Originally Posted By NateTheShake:
Originally Posted By koz4guns:
Good review,

But it's given in the context of someone who already owns a Gen 3 model, there are a lot of us that don't.
So if you were looking at it from the point of view that you don't have a model 21 already, which one would you choose?
Or better yet is there one you wouldn't choose and why?

Koz


I know I'm not the OP, but personally my advice to anyone asking between the Gen4 and the older models:

1. The SF model is the only previous model worth buying. The original G21 has an awkwardly large grip. Some people claim not to mind the oversized grip, but they are few and far between. IMO the G21SF should just be called the G21OWSHMITFPS (One We Should Have Made In The First Place, Sorry) or just Glock 21...
2. Most of the "features" of the Gen4's are just marketing gimmicks (texture, spring, grip panels)
3.The new magazine release is better than the older models.
4. Given no difference in price I would opt for the Gen4 for the new magazine release.
5. If there is a substantial (+$50) difference in price I'd get whichever is cheaper.


I own both and I would have to disagree with your assertion number 2. I don't feel the texturing is a gimmick. I have skate tape on my 21SF and never wanted to try out different colors due to the fact I thought it would be stupid to spend the money and then cover it with tape. I feel totally confident using the gen4 sans tape, even with sweaty hands. So much so I finally dropped the coin and had the frame Cerakoted FDE. I would also say that shooting them side by side, the gen4 has less felt recoil and muzzle flip, so the dual rate spring is obviously having an effect as well. Not to mention the fact the Viridian in the photo below is tightended down tight as eff and I have never had any malfunctions with this gun. Of course I haven't with my SF either but I haven't tested it with light extremely tight. I have posted this pic before. Here is my gen4 sporting a KKM 10mm drop in barrel.


SSDSurf
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Posted: 7/31/2012 2:54:23 AM
Texture in the Gen 4's are better than the Gen 3's. Reach or grip size is improved in the Gen4 21 and the backstraps play more of a role in the G17/22 frames and smaller. Mag release button is improved and is reversible. I happen to note a slight difference in the dual recoil spring in all of my Gen4's vs Gen3's but many may not. There are definite issues in some of the Gen4's. My Gen4 21 has been great. All in all for myself, the improvements I mention make it a better option IMO than earlier Generations.
Bradd_D
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Posted: 7/31/2012 3:29:03 AM
I had a 21 gen 4 briefly and I felt the grip texture and mag release were a huge improvement over the gen 3, but I got hit in the face with alot of brass so I let it go.
StonerAR10
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Posted: 7/31/2012 11:25:35 AM
I hav e3 G21's (all Gen 3) nad have been looking at a Gen4 for some time. Please forgive me for what I'm about to say. I went to my local GS this weekend and teh dealer and good friend said he just got a FNP 45 trade in that was unfired and I could have iy for $460 NIB. I didn't really liek teh looks or feel of the Fn but formthat price I could give it to my son. I took it home and later kept pulling it out of the boix and playing with it. Yesterday I took it to the local range and fired two mags through it. DAMN... I really like this gun. The more I fired it the more I liked it. I'm still a huge Glock fan but this has taken the place of my G21Sf as a carry gun. 16 rounds is hard to beat and with a safety and de cocker it is perfect for me.
Swat_dude
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Posted: 7/31/2012 12:45:06 PM
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I had a 21 gen 4 briefly and I felt the grip texture and mag release were a huge improvement over the gen 3, but I got hit in the face with alot of brass so I let it go.


Weird, both my Gen4 21's eject brass at a 45 angle over my right shoulder. I should note I have only shot HST 230 +P and some Magtech 230 gr range ammo through the gun though.
boxerdad
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Posted: 7/31/2012 3:27:16 PM
SO Do you think or feel that the G21 Gen 4 is a smaller grip frame with the smallest grip insert or the same as the other Generations? I am buying one soon and the Gen 4's are more money.. I am a G19/G17 Guy.. thanks and keep video.
NateTheShake
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Posted: 8/6/2012 1:38:27 PM
[Last Edit: 8/6/2012 1:40:19 PM by NateTheShake]
Originally Posted By boxerdad:
SO Do you think or feel that the G21 Gen 4 is a smaller grip frame with the smallest grip insert or the same as the other Generations? I am buying one soon and the Gen 4's are more money.. I am a G19/G17 Guy.. thanks and keep video.


Without any inserts the grip dimensions of the G21 Gen4 is nearly identical to the G21SF. With the smallest insert it feels comparable to the original G21. With the medium it feels even bigger than the original G21 and with the largest insert it feels awkwardly big (think Desert Eagle... not literally, but I haven't met anyone who thinks even the medium grip is comfortable.)

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:

I own both and I would have to disagree with your assertion number 2. I don't feel the texturing is a gimmick. I have skate tape on my 21SF and never wanted to try out different colors due to the fact I thought it would be stupid to spend the money and then cover it with tape. I feel totally confident using the gen4 sans tape, even with sweaty hands. So much so I finally dropped the coin and had the frame Cerakoted FDE. I would also say that shooting them side by side, the gen4 has less felt recoil and muzzle flip, so the dual rate spring is obviously having an effect as well. Not to mention the fact the Viridian in the photo below is tightended down tight as eff and I have never had any malfunctions with this gun. Of course I haven't with my SF either but I haven't tested it with light extremely tight. I have posted this pic before. Here is my gen4 sporting a KKM 10mm drop in barrel.


I will concede that to some the RTF3 texturing of the Gen4 could be a nice improvement. Personally I never had an issue with the texturing, or lack thereof, on the prior generations. However the new texturing is a nice compromise between the almost non-existent texturing of the previous generations and the tear-your-clothes-to-shreds texturing of the RTF2 models. I actually kind of liked the RTF2 texturing originally, but after trying one on for a day at the range I felt it gripped clothing too much during a draw in either a OTW or IWB configuration and was downright uncomfortable rubbing against the skin when carried IWB. The new texturing adds some "grip-tion" (to coin a buddy's term) while not interfering with a draw or being any less comfortable than the smoother grips of previous generations. So that's my whole $.02. The texturing isn't a selling point personally, but it might be for some. As always try before you buy and you'll be happier in the long run.

FWIW I won a Glock in the Glock-A-Day in the Month of May drawing in 2011, but was deployed so they sent me a voucher along with a free upgrade to the 45/10mm lineup. I went with the Gen4 G21 as there was no price difference between it and the G21SF. I feel the new magazine release alone makes the Gen4 just a little bit better than the Gen 3 and older.
sundance435
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Posted: 8/22/2012 6:08:01 PM
Originally Posted By NateTheShake:
Originally Posted By boxerdad:
SO Do you think or feel that the G21 Gen 4 is a smaller grip frame with the smallest grip insert or the same as the other Generations? I am buying one soon and the Gen 4's are more money.. I am a G19/G17 Guy.. thanks and keep video.


Without any inserts the grip dimensions of the G21 Gen4 is nearly identical to the G21SF. With the smallest insert it feels comparable to the original G21. With the medium it feels even bigger than the original G21 and with the largest insert it feels awkwardly big (think Desert Eagle... not literally, but I haven't met anyone who thinks even the medium grip is comfortable.)

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:

How is this even possible? With the smallest insert, it feels like the largest grip frame 21 that Glock has ever made, but with the "normal" insert, it feels like a Glock 21SF?
wwp512
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Posted: 8/22/2012 7:20:23 PM
I bought a used Gen3 21sf and at first wondering why the previous owner sold it. After owning it for more than 2 years and 1500rd later, it had not failed once. I LOVE it!
Bram
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Posted: 8/22/2012 10:59:50 PM
Originally Posted By NateTheShake:
Originally Posted By boxerdad:
SO Do you think or feel that the G21 Gen 4 is a smaller grip frame with the smallest grip insert or the same as the other Generations? I am buying one soon and the Gen 4's are more money.. I am a G19/G17 Guy.. thanks and keep video.


Without any inserts the grip dimensions of the G21 Gen4 is nearly identical to the G21SF. With the smallest insert it feels comparable to the original G21. With the medium it feels even bigger than the original G21 and with the largest insert it feels awkwardly big (think Desert Eagle... not literally, but I haven't met anyone who thinks even the medium grip is comfortable.)

Originally Posted By Swat_dude:

I own both and I would have to disagree with your assertion number 2. I don't feel the texturing is a gimmick. I have skate tape on my 21SF and never wanted to try out different colors due to the fact I thought it would be stupid to spend the money and then cover it with tape. I feel totally confident using the gen4 sans tape, even with sweaty hands. So much so I finally dropped the coin and had the frame Cerakoted FDE. I would also say that shooting them side by side, the gen4 has less felt recoil and muzzle flip, so the dual rate spring is obviously having an effect as well. Not to mention the fact the Viridian in the photo below is tightended down tight as eff and I have never had any malfunctions with this gun. Of course I haven't with my SF either but I haven't tested it with light extremely tight. I have posted this pic before. Here is my gen4 sporting a KKM 10mm drop in barrel.


I will concede that to some the RTF3 texturing of the Gen4 could be a nice improvement. Personally I never had an issue with the texturing, or lack thereof, on the prior generations. However the new texturing is a nice compromise between the almost non-existent texturing of the previous generations and the tear-your-clothes-to-shreds texturing of the RTF2 models. I actually kind of liked the RTF2 texturing originally, but after trying one on for a day at the range I felt it gripped clothing too much during a draw in either a OTW or IWB configuration and was downright uncomfortable rubbing against the skin when carried IWB. The new texturing adds some "grip-tion" (to coin a buddy's term) while not interfering with a draw or being any less comfortable than the smoother grips of previous generations. So that's my whole $.02. The texturing isn't a selling point personally, but it might be for some. As always try before you buy and you'll be happier in the long run.

FWIW I won a Glock in the Glock-A-Day in the Month of May drawing in 2011, but was deployed so they sent me a voucher along with a free upgrade to the 45/10mm lineup. I went with the Gen4 G21 as there was no price difference between it and the G21SF. I feel the new magazine release alone makes the Gen4 just a little bit better than the Gen 3 and older.


Are you suggesting your Gen4 Glock 21 came with 3 interchangeable backstraps? All of my Gen4's (including my model 21) only came with M & L inserts...