This has probably been answered 100 times, but my search engine seems to be beyond my mental abilities at 6:00 am.
How long do you all keep your carry ammo in your gun? What about rechambering? I have carried the same ammo several times for months before firing and never had a squib, or any other issue. My other concern is any lube penetrating the primers. I have read internet "guru expert opinions" that go both directions on other forums addressing rechambering, and lube issues.

Forever

Depends alot on the conditions you expose it to. Bullet setback is very dependant on ammo and firearm only way to know for sure is to check oal

They told us a story in firearms training one day about some officer who had a malfunction during a shooting situation.  It was determined that this officer followed the same routine every day.  When he got home, he unloaded his weapon and put it in a safe. Every morning he would reload the weapon, using the same round every time.  After months and months of this the bullet was pushed too far back into the casing and caused the malfunction.



They cautioned any officer who did this to at least rotate through the rounds in the magazine so you are not chambering the same round over and over.



Other than that, unless you contaminate the round with some type of penetrating oil I imagine that will last just about forever.



 

Another case involved an officer who did something similar and they sent his ammo into Federal and they determined the primer of the round in his chamber had deteriorated from repeated chambering.  I usually cycle the round that was in the chamber around through the mag and once a year or so I crank off the mag I carry and replace it with fresh rounds.

Had 230gr CorBon sit in my ProCarry being rechambered and hit with oil and humidity. For about 12-13 years.

It all worked just fine.

Depends alot on the conditions you expose it to. Bullet setback is very dependant on ammo and firearm only way to know for sure is to check oal

I'm lucky in that respect in that the PD I work for provides my ammo. We (usually) replace our carry ammo annually when we qualify. We shoot our carry ammo during qualifications, use practice ammo (FMJ) to finish quals, then reload with new duty ammo when we are done. On occasion, we have gone two or more years without replacing ammo because of budgetary constraints (small Department and no money to buy new ammo) or availability (during the ammo panic buying a few years ago, quality JHP was simply unavailable; any orders placed were quoted as having 8-12 months or longer delivery times). We have never had any issues with ammo going bad in the 20 years I have been involved with firearms training and quals. Keep the ammo climate controlled (no temp or humidity extremes if you can help it) and away from solvents and lube (wipe excess off the gun and out of the barrel/chamber before loading) and ammo should last a long, long time. Keep in mind, ammo just doesn't go bad without something to cause it. C&R guys are regularly shooting even pre-WWII ammo and, as long as it was stored even somewhat appropriately, it all just works. Hell, I have shot some of the semi-dreaded Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo in bandoliers dated from the early '40's. Corrosive as hell and kind of a PITA to clean, but it all went "bang" and was at least decently accurate.

One problem to watch out for is bullet setback or other damage from repeated chambering. Not only can bullet setback cause failures to feed because the cartridge OAL changes, it can also drastically raise chamber pressures. When I started reloading many years ago, one warning that I clearly remember from a Speer reloading manual said that .01" can double chamber pressure in 9mm rounds. Doubling the chamber pressure can easily result in blowing the gun up.

Another type of damage to watch out for is damaging the primer. Although this isn't a big deal in pistols, a story we were told in a ballistics workshop put on by Vista Outdoors (parent company of Speer and Federal) this past spring really made me think. We were told that a SWAT Officer had a FTFire with his AR and got a "click" when he needed a "bang" when engaging a bad guy. He had other Officers with him that serviced the bad guy and all ended well. The chambered round that didn't fire was sent back to Speer and analysis determined that the primer compound in the primer cup had fractured and crumbled away from the anvil, so that the primer wouldn't pop and the round wouldn't fire. Analysis also determined that the Officer's daily routine caused this. He would chamber a round and put the rifle on safe when on SWAT callouts, then eject the same round and pop it back into the magazine when finished. I'm sure most here are familiar with ARs, but when you chamber a round in an AR, the inertial, non-spring loaded firing pin flies forward when the bolt carrier is sent home, lightly "kissing" the primer. Not hard enough to fire but it can leave a small imprint in the primer. It was determined that, through chambering the same round over and over (Speer determined that the level of degradation they saw in this round would take at least 40 repeated chamberings), the firing pin had smacked the primer, not hard enough to pop the primer, but hard enough to start fracturing and powdering the priming compound. Like I said, that particular problem isn't really applicable to carry pistols (every carry pistol I can think of uses a spring loaded firing pin and/or a firing pin safety so that the firing pin cannot physically strike the primer till the trigger is pulled), but repeated chamberings can cause the rim to get torn up, the bullet to get set back and things like that.

Bottom line is that the instructor of the workshop said that Speer and Federal's opinion is that you should never rechamber a round once it has been chambered. The instructor said, flat out, that this is unrealistic and 2-3 rechamberings shouldn't effect anything, but it should be kept to an absolute minimum to avoid damage to the ammo, which can result in damage to the gun or the round not firing when you need it.

The best option is to have a lockbox or something so that you can secure your carry gun when not actually carrying it. That way, you really never have to unload it, just lock it in the box. This is what I do with my duty gun and my 2 backup and/or off duty guns. However, I also don't have small kids and have a safe place in my bedroom to do this. If you have small kids, even if you do have a safe place, this IS NOT recommended. Kids can and will get into things and you would be amazed what they can get into. Kids and unattended loaded guns are a tragedy waiting to happen.

Another option is what I do when I unload my carry ammo to practice with FMJ. Unload the chambered round, practice, clean or whatever you have to do, then put the previously chambered round in the bottom of one of you spare magazines. That way, it is there if you need it and you are chambering a new round for carry.

Bub75

I mostly agree with Bub although it highlights the extremely poor state of affairs in LEO live fire training and qualification.

Set back issues

I am a firm believer in testing for set back in a semi-auto by repeatedly chambering a few rounds until they've been cycled through the process at least a half dozen times.  If they do not measure shorter at the end then they did at the beginning, you;re good to go.  It'll also clue you in to any point damage that occurs in the chambering process.    


How long before you retire it?

As people have noted, provided the ammo doesn't get wet, contaminated with oil or solvents, start corroding, or exposed to high heat for significant heat for extended periods of time, it should last a long time.  

The primer will probably fail before the powder deteriorates.  In fact, this is the reason the former Soviet block nations used corrosive primers - the compound has greater longevity than the compound used in non corrosive primers, particularly, under less than ideal storage conditions.

BUT...

I don't think that's the driving criteria that should be used in how long you carry the same ammo.

I understand law enforcement agencies that use FMJ practice ammo that mimics the point shape, bullet weight velocity and recoil impulse of their carry ammo, for economic reasons, but IMHO that's the bare minimum when it comes to acceptable practice.

Practicing with a less expensive load is fine, only if it's a reasonable approximation of your carry ammo.

That also does not alleviate the need to ensure your carry ammo is 100% reliable in your pistol or revolver. IMHO that includes at least 200 trouble free round through your pistol, with all the magazines you plan to carry, and periodic live fire with it to confirm everything still functions as advertised.  For a revolver, I'll check for rounds backing out under recoil, making sure a sample of them  hang in there for at least 10 shots,  then verify that 50 rounds fire with no other issues (light strikes, etc).


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I expend my carry ammo down range about once a month.  It's the ammo that I've been carrying as that by that time the lowest quality and most suspect carry ammo I own.  

As noted above it ensures my pistol or revolver still functions as advertised with it, and it ensures that I get actual practice with my carry ammo rather than with just a surrogate load.


If you've been carrying your self defense ammo for months or years, it begins to raise serious questions about proficiency that far outweigh concerns about ammo effectiveness.  After all, except for the psychological affect of your assailant receiving fire, a misfire isn't any less effective than a miss - its the hits that count in a gun fight and the shooter will have far more to do with the hit percentage than the ammo being used.

Thanks for the replies. I keep minimum oil on my EDC guns. I clean them weekly, carried or not, as they get a range outing. They stay loaded at all times for the most part, unless being transported for a range trip on the one I am not carrying at the time. Without knowing much about it, I am concerned with oil penetrating the powder, or primer. I read  of "sealed military ammo", (I think), resistant to moisture and oils, yet I don't see a specific term or rating for it. I do office work for the most part, so sweat is not soaking the gun on a daily basis. I do a full clean after any full soak through clothing sweaty work. The pocket 380 collects more dust/lint than the iwb 9mm.
Thanks again for the input.

We were told a very similar story at a training class this year. Each time the officer would empty his weapon, he would then chamber the top round in the mag and replace it with the round he just took from the chamber. So those same 2 rounds were cycled and chambered who knows how many times. At some point on duty the officer had to use the weapon, and both of the top 2 rounds failed to fire and were tap-rack'ed out until a functioning round was fired.

After the rounds were sent back to the factory it was determined that they had been chambered so many times they were inoperable.

Curious fact that I didn't know or think about, but we were told that according to the ammunition manufacturers they cant really tell a difference between rounds being repeatedly chambered or repeatedly press-checked. Something to think about if you press check a weapon every day to check the condition.

I stopped worrying about this years ago, life is too short to be worried this much so instead of checking OAL's or recycling the ammo in the mag, I just drop the mag with the good stuff, pop in a mag of range fodder and fire what's already chambered, and when all is said and done, I add a round from a 50 round box of the same carry ammo just for this purpose alone. Keeping it simple is my way of doing this.

Shoot it when you go to the range.  That both cycles it, and lets you know it's state (if it works or jams or whatever or not.)

I don't mess around with my carry gun. It stays in the holster as I take it on and off and do a quick visual inspection once a week or so.  I don't re-chamber it all the time, and I don't finger fuck it. Once in a while, I remove the mag, empty it, remove the one in the chamber and verify no lint or dust buildup in the barrel. Then replace all of it being sure to not re-chamber the same round that was in there.


But, you really don't need to worry about it. Just buy good reliable ammo. It's not a damn toy, don't screw around with it. Play with your other guns.

On the Glock and many pistols if you look closely enough you can see brass even the Glock.  Tons even have indicators or holes to view.  On the Glock if you look in the ejection port right between the extractor and barrel hood you can see brass.  The last time I did a press check I cannot even honestly recall.  Honestly I do not like do press checks because 1 my pistol is on me or next to me all the time, 2 I do not like the idea of pulling my loaded handgun out of its holster for any purpose except to shoot it at the range, clean\modify\maintain or in the event I am in a shoot out which honestly never has had happened, and 3 I am just not that tier 1.



Excellent advice.... I recently switched to grease because I got tired of the lube running out of the pistol, attracting lint\dust\grime, and completely running off.

To add into what many have posted about repeated chambering issues...

You'll notice that some of the more premium options from big names like Hornady and Federal use a cannelure on their projectiles in order to prevent  setback (alongside other reasons). In my experience these help quite a bit, but they are not absolute.  Some manufactures even do a crimp on the brass at the base of the bullet to prevent it from sliding back. I don't think there's really a magic number, but rather that you should inspect the ammo yourself and ditch whatever you don't trust.

I know that everyone has their own budgets and habits and have to base their decisions on those, but I personally try to run at least one magazine of "social" ammo a year with the regular competitive and practice schedule. It's not too heavy on the wallet, doesn't consume too much ammo, gives some familiarity with carry rounds, and keeps things in good rotation.

I also like GSL's idea for even less consumption.

Also agree with grease for carry guns because it tends to stay where it is. Fun guns, hunting pieces, and match pistols are the ones that tend to get oiled up and wiped down for me.

Agree that you don't have to press check a modern handgun to know its condition in most cases. Some people do, some people don't. When I load a weapon on the range or a carry piece after the range, I generally do a press check to ensure condition. After the first time, I simply do a visual check until the next time that weapon is unloaded for whatever reason.

When I first obtained a firearm and proper training, I learned to press check both primary and secondary to ensure condition. Its just how I was taught and it has stuck with me. Doesn't mean I do a press check 5-7 times a day any time I leave a building, but I see no harm in chambering a round once and a simple press check to quickly visually confirm that a round is chambered.  


Also ill go ahead and be that guy and throw in the "can't see brass in the chamber in darkness" line everybody loves so much

And possibly plus a few.

The first couple years I carried I would just buy a 25 round box of whatever at the LGS and stuff it in my mags. After they'd get grimey I'd take them out and put them in an ammo can then go buy a new box to load up.

Fast forward a couple more years those dirty, sweaty bullets had been rolling around loose in a can and really looked like shit. Off top of my head they were Hornady, GS, 147 Ranger and a couple others.

I took all those nasty bullets and fired them with no issues at the range.

I wouldn't sweat it.

That is what I call minimum oil. I have accidentally over oiled, or forgot to blow out and wipe down after lube, and wound up spraying my glasses at the range. The guns & ammo did not fail........ Cleaning my glasses was another story. I never forget to jag swab out the chamber and bore after cleaning.
The hst got here as planned. I am curious to feel the difference in recoil from 115 fmj/hp to 147 hst.
This has me eager to go shoot. Gotta get going and off the couch soon.

My carry ammo
For
My revolvers which do not get subject to the abuse they do in autos I would feel confident in 20 year old ammo. I have fired some rather grungy 38's from the World War One era and they all went bang just fine

I don't buy the primer story!

It's cute but seems more like an unproven theory offered by a tech when nothing else fit the situation. Then like most rumors, once stated, it spreads like wildfire!

Look at the construction of a primer. There is no place for anything to move. The mass of the pellet isn't enough to break itself and if it did, it would likely fire.

And if they were that sensitive to shock and vibration it would cause this issue after a couple of months of riding around in a tracked vehicle. Yet no duds there...

My carry never gets unloaded unless I'm cleaning it.  Stays loaded and chambered 24/7 otherwise.  Most of the time, I just wipe off the outside, drop the mag, wipe it off, and reseat the mag.  I sometimes will empty the mag, disassemble, clean, reassemble, maybe once a year.  So, the rounds get loaded in a different order (randomly).  I guess mine will probably last a long time.

Two issues with carry ammo that could cause you problems. Rechambering and the environmental conditions you subject your ammo to. I carry my gun all the time. Really all the time except when I am in the shower or sleeping. My gun gets sweated on and rained on. It goes from AC to 90 degree super humid MS days. You get the idea. Ammo you carry is not the same as ammo sitting in a gun in a climate controlled safe.

GSL's above method works wonderfully provided you: 1) Shoot frequently. 2) Don't dry fire with your carry gun. If that is true for you then this way is the simplest and requires the least effort on your part.

If you don't shoot frequently or you dry fire with your carry gun I'd suggest that you keep a jar where you have set up for dry fire practice and put the ejected round in that jar to be fired on your next range trip. Or you can keep an empty magazine and load it into that magazine to be fired at the next range trip (this is what I do). Keep a box of your carry ammo there as well so that you replace the ejected round. If you have done something like fallen in a lake, creek, pool, river, mud hole, been mud riding on a four wheeler, etc, I'd shoot up your carry ammo ASAP and replace all of it. Otherwise, I'd recommend shooting it up every 3-6 months and replacing it all.

When financially possible buy a case of your carry ammo. It is expensive, but it makes this cheaper over time.

Is this overkill? I don't really think so. People obsess over how reliable their gun is. What is the biggest cause of stoppages in modern handguns? Ammo. Keeping the ammo that you by God need to work when you need it to work fresh is CHEAP insurance. Will your ammo that you have been sweating on all summer while mowing grass and running and have rechambered 87 times work when you need it to? Probably. Maybe. But that is like saying, "I never clean my Glock and run it dry and never replace springs because it is a Glock and works." Will that dirty, dry gun work when you need it to? Probably. Maybe. Clean guns and lubrication are cheap insurance. So is fresh carry ammo.

Edited to add the following link to show a few times where rechambering can become an issue:

http://agiletactical.com/carry-ammo-safety-and-readiness-the-danger-of-rechambering-your-carry-ammo-too-many-times/

Another great post from you, sir.

And yes, I am a frequent shooter. If I do not, then I may lose my edge where I had perfected everything from the draw to the mag changes.

When I change smoke alarm batteries I refresh ammo and shoot up the old batch during my next range session.

Sooner if ammo is somehow compromised.

I replace mine even 8-12 months. I live in Kansas, it's does get humid and the sweat gets rust on the rounds.

Rust?    Copper/brass/lead