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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Help me choose my first CCW (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 4/2/2016 10:03:34 AM EDT

[#1]

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The day I sold off my last .380, I swore I would never go back. Have not been tempted yet. There are some truly small guns in .380 (like the lcp) but I don't like shooting them, and realized I could at least pocket carry a CM9 if I need a really small gun. Haven't found a need for one smaller. That said, other people do. I would rather have someone carry a pocket .380 than no gun, but you had better shoot it a lot as it is a hard gun to master and understand the limitations of the round and shoot a lot of your carry ammo through it to make sure it is reliable. Also select ammo that has the best penetration.

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You mention that you're most comfortable, or have the most knowledge of shotguns and rifles, handguns are kind of a new game to you. You also mention this is your first carry gun, is it also your first time carrying?

I'm going to say something that's going to get my flamed I'm sure, but have you thought about some of the larger, but still smallish .380 pistols? For example, Glock 42, Sig P238, Kahr CM380 (mixed reliability reviews on that one). You can carry the 238 and the G42 IWB or in a pocket, it can go with you anywhere with any kind of attire. Everyone on the internet claims you need a minimum of 9mm to be "combat effective", but they never define what they think "combat effective" is. We're not going to war with our carry pistol, our carry pistol is our last ditch effort to get us out of trouble that we could not avoid.

With quality .380 SD ammo, you can still poke a 10" - 15" hole pretty reliably and you're going to have to put a lot less effort into your concealment and with that light weight gun, it will just blend into your daily life effortlessly. So before you short change the medium-sized .380's, give it a second thought. I carry my G42 every single day, everywhere legally allowed and barely notice it's there. When I carry my G26 (still lightweight for capacity) I can tell it's there and over time it will drive me nuts. Just my .02.

I you don't like Glock, that's cool, look at the 238. I only picked up the 42 because I'm familiar with the platform and it was the perfect Christmas gift haha, otherwise I would have probably ended up with the 238 because it's a beautiful little gun, every bit, if not more reliable than the Glock and very comfortable to hold and shoot.

Slim and light weight all day! Even in 9mm, weight is everything.

Waiting for .380 hate

The day I sold off my last .380, I swore I would never go back. Have not been tempted yet. There are some truly small guns in .380 (like the lcp) but I don't like shooting them, and realized I could at least pocket carry a CM9 if I need a really small gun. Haven't found a need for one smaller. That said, other people do. I would rather have someone carry a pocket .380 than no gun, but you had better shoot it a lot as it is a hard gun to master and understand the limitations of the round and shoot a lot of your carry ammo through it to make sure it is reliable. Also select ammo that has the best penetration.

No .380 ACP hate here - it's a caliber that is I think coming into it's own as more and more shooters realize that it offers acceptable performance (with one of the 90 gr XTP loads) for a self defense pistol in a small, light, easy to conceal package.

The current crop of reasonable sized micro sized .380 ACP pistols are actually easier to shoot than the older blow back designs like the PP, PPK., PPK/S, Bersa Thunder, etc. Even with a steel frame, a blow back .380 pistol stings a bit.

I've found the Kimber Micro, and Sig P238 to be very comfortable to shoot, although I prefer the Kimber for the more rounded lines and for it's relentless reliability. Either pistol is moocher comfortable to shoot than a PPK/S and it's smaller and a lot light.

As for the LCP, and similar sub micro pistols, I agree they are not a great idea, and they've gone a bit too far in the wrong direction sacrificing shoot ability for an only incremental decrease in weight and size - but that also means you can't judge the entire crop of small .380 pistols based on the LCP.

Posted: 4/2/2016 12:05:48 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:

No .380 ACP hate here - it's a caliber that is I think coming into it's own as more and more shooters realize that it offers acceptable performance (with one of the 90 gr XTP loads) for a self defense pistol in a small, light, easy to conceal package.

The current crop of reasonable sized micro sized .380 ACP pistols are actually easier to shoot than the older blow back designs like the PP, PPK., PPK/S, Bersa Thunder, etc. Even with a steel frame, a blow back .380 pistol stings a bit.

I've found the Kimber Micro, and Sig P238 to be very comfortable to shoot, although I prefer the Kimber for the more rounded lines and for it's relentless reliability. Either pistol is moocher comfortable to shoot than a PPK/S and it's smaller and a lot light.

As for the LCP, and similar sub micro pistols, I agree they are not a great idea, and they've gone a bit too far in the wrong direction sacrificing shoot ability for an only incremental decrease in weight and size - but that also means you can't judge the entire crop of small .380 pistols based on the LCP.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
You mention that you're most comfortable, or have the most knowledge of shotguns and rifles, handguns are kind of a new game to you. You also mention this is your first carry gun, is it also your first time carrying?

I'm going to say something that's going to get my flamed I'm sure, but have you thought about some of the larger, but still smallish .380 pistols? For example, Glock 42, Sig P238, Kahr CM380 (mixed reliability reviews on that one). You can carry the 238 and the G42 IWB or in a pocket, it can go with you anywhere with any kind of attire. Everyone on the internet claims you need a minimum of 9mm to be "combat effective", but they never define what they think "combat effective" is. We're not going to war with our carry pistol, our carry pistol is our last ditch effort to get us out of trouble that we could not avoid.

With quality .380 SD ammo, you can still poke a 10" - 15" hole pretty reliably and you're going to have to put a lot less effort into your concealment and with that light weight gun, it will just blend into your daily life effortlessly. So before you short change the medium-sized .380's, give it a second thought. I carry my G42 every single day, everywhere legally allowed and barely notice it's there. When I carry my G26 (still lightweight for capacity) I can tell it's there and over time it will drive me nuts. Just my .02.

I you don't like Glock, that's cool, look at the 238. I only picked up the 42 because I'm familiar with the platform and it was the perfect Christmas gift haha, otherwise I would have probably ended up with the 238 because it's a beautiful little gun, every bit, if not more reliable than the Glock and very comfortable to hold and shoot.

Slim and light weight all day! Even in 9mm, weight is everything.

Waiting for .380 hate

The day I sold off my last .380, I swore I would never go back. Have not been tempted yet. There are some truly small guns in .380 (like the lcp) but I don't like shooting them, and realized I could at least pocket carry a CM9 if I need a really small gun. Haven't found a need for one smaller. That said, other people do. I would rather have someone carry a pocket .380 than no gun, but you had better shoot it a lot as it is a hard gun to master and understand the limitations of the round and shoot a lot of your carry ammo through it to make sure it is reliable. Also select ammo that has the best penetration.

No .380 ACP hate here - it's a caliber that is I think coming into it's own as more and more shooters realize that it offers acceptable performance (with one of the 90 gr XTP loads) for a self defense pistol in a small, light, easy to conceal package.

The current crop of reasonable sized micro sized .380 ACP pistols are actually easier to shoot than the older blow back designs like the PP, PPK., PPK/S, Bersa Thunder, etc. Even with a steel frame, a blow back .380 pistol stings a bit.

I've found the Kimber Micro, and Sig P238 to be very comfortable to shoot, although I prefer the Kimber for the more rounded lines and for it's relentless reliability. Either pistol is moocher comfortable to shoot than a PPK/S and it's smaller and a lot light.

As for the LCP, and similar sub micro pistols, I agree they are not a great idea, and they've gone a bit too far in the wrong direction sacrificing shoot ability for an only incremental decrease in weight and size - but that also means you can't judge the entire crop of small .380 pistols based on the LCP.

All fair points. And yes the p238 is enjoyable to shoot.

Posted: 4/21/2016 2:58:55 PM EDT

[#3]

I think the S&W M&P compact series really fits the bill. You can carry the 9mm with reduced 10rnd mags or carry the 40S&W with full capacity 10rnd mags. M&Pc's are great guns. Other options would be the FNS compact series or the M&P Shied.

Posted: 4/24/2016 8:10:41 AM EDT

[#4]

Lol... Months to get a permit in NY... Try over a year...

Anyway, CCW and competition shouldn't be in the same sentence. That being said, Glock 26 is your best bet, Glock 27 if you don't have girly hands.

It doesn't get much simpler than a Glock. Glock 19 is a silly CCW in NY with the 10rd limit. Plus if you put a pinky extension (recommend against it) on a Glock 26, it's almost exactly the same size as a 19.

In any case, I'm in NY, been carrying for years and unlike the other folks here, I know what you're up against. All of these recommendations for Walthers, Kimbers, etc are silly. Get something slim and light so it's easy to carry otherwise you'll leave it at home. Plus you have to remember that while some people want you to believe they can conceal a Glock 17 under a silk shirt, you have to be extra conscious about printing in NY. If someone sees a gun poking out from under your shirt or whatever, 9 out of 10 NY'ers will lose their shit, freak out, and call the police.

Also, you need a good holster. My suggestion is to call Milt Sparks and put your order in now. I carried my G27 in a VM2 until recently when I just got my Criterion/D4C/Belt in sharkskin after a 5 month wait. Yes it was expensive, but it's the most comfortable and solid setup ever.

Posted: 4/24/2016 1:55:54 PM EDT

[#5]

M&P9c or 45c

Posted: 4/27/2016 1:46:07 PM EDT

[#6]

OP, the answer is really simple, try a few and see how they shoot at some rental range and then go from there. The pro of asking this question is that you get to have options listed from those with experience. The big problem though, is that everyone thinks what they carry is the end all solution and everyone else is wrong unless someone else carries the same gun too. Well they are very wrong. The best is what you try out, shoots well, and carries the best. It is that simple. Stupid simple really and makes the most sense out of everything here that has been posted.

Posted: 4/27/2016 5:21:35 PM EDT

[#7]

Gen4 G19, and do you really think everyone abides the 10rd rule?

Posted: 4/27/2016 5:25:34 PM EDT

[#8]

Usable for competition and good size for ccw are completely at odds.

Get a glock 43 and a glock 19/17, that way training will have some crossover.

Posted: 4/27/2016 5:27:52 PM EDT

[#9]

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Gen4 G19, and do you really think everyone abides the 10rd rule?

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So you want to take your chances after a self defense shoot or a routine traffic stop where you have to report that you're carrying and they ask to see it? YThat's just being stupid to advocate that. Suggest moving to a free state over breaking some BS law. Doing something in spite of whether you agree with it or not is just stupid.

Posted: 4/27/2016 5:28:44 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:
Usable for competition and good size for ccw are completely at odds.

Get a glock 43 and a glock 19/17, that way training will have some crossover.

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Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

Posted: 4/27/2016 6:04:17 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

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Quoted:
Usable for competition and good size for ccw are completely at odds.

Get a glock 43 and a glock 19/17, that way training will have some crossover.

Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

Ok?

Posted: 4/27/2016 8:58:19 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Usable for competition and good size for ccw are completely at odds.

Get a glock 43 and a glock 19/17, that way training will have some crossover.

Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

He never said they were the only option.

Do you really need to post after every glock recomendation? We all know you hate them with a passion. Get a new shtick.

OP If I was in your position I buy a g19 and cut the grip downto fit 10 round mags.

The 43/19 recommendation is good too, maybe better. I just know when I carry my kahr cw9 I wish for more rounds on board but thats just me.

Posted: 4/27/2016 9:37:33 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:

He never said they were the only option.

Do you really need to post after every glock recomendation? We all know you hate them with a passion. Get a new shtick.

OP If I was in your position I buy a g19 and cut the grip downto fit 10 round mags.

The 43/19 recommendation is good too, maybe better. I just know when I carry my kahr cw9 I wish for more rounds on board but thats just me.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Usable for competition and good size for ccw are completely at odds.

Get a glock 43 and a glock 19/17, that way training will have some crossover.

Those are not the end all guns to consider. There are lots of other options to judge against and trial for.

He never said they were the only option.

Do you really need to post after every glock recomendation? We all know you hate them with a passion. Get a new shtick.

OP If I was in your position I buy a g19 and cut the grip downto fit 10 round mags.

The 43/19 recommendation is good too, maybe better. I just know when I carry my kahr cw9 I wish for more rounds on board but thats just me.

Do you really need to post after I say it isn't the end all? Carry thread, not GD. Take it elsewhere. Get back to tech and leave the GD crap behind.Or are you going to derail this thread like you did the last one?

Your carry options are not better, they are just suggestions without any merits besides your own personal preferences. OP needs to try them all at a rental range, and get a feel for things first.

Posted: 4/28/2016 7:15:03 PM EDT

[#14]

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Quoted:
Gen4 G19, and do you really think everyone abides the 10rd rule?

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That's the dumbest advice I've heard for quite a while now for a law abiding citizen.

So how do you think it would work out if a person "not abiding" had to use their gun? Think it would look good in a NY courtroom? Do you think it's a good idea to face criminal charges when unnecessary? That's foolish advice.

Cheers!
-JC