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Posted: 6/7/2015 12:29:37 PM EDT
[#1]
If he's THAT paranoid and obtuse, he might not be the kind of person suitable to carry a firearm, period.
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Posted: 6/7/2015 12:36:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Your buddy will feel safer with any true DAO hammer fired. Revolvers or any of the following as DAO: Sig, H&K, beretta, Old smith number guns to IIRC. DA/SA would work too but will likely make him feel uncomfortable with the SA portion and the decocker.
I did get a used Sig for free from someone that did some serious redneck engineering to. The decocker would fire the gun, the gun was a paperweight and I turned it in at a gun buyback for $50 along with a bunch of other non-working guns and Saturday night specials I had experimented on. There really is no way for what your buddy is talking about to happen. I suppose a major traumatic impact that would destroy the gun, and by extension kill you too, could possibly cause a failure like that...but you wouldn't be alive to worry about it. |
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Posted: 6/7/2015 5:38:06 PM EDT
[#3]
The one you don't pull the trigger by accident
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Posted: 6/7/2015 7:04:11 PM EDT
[#4]
revolver
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Posted: 6/7/2015 10:16:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Kahr might also be an option.
I had the same reservations about my M&P because I carry appendix. I can't afford to have a round cook off in that position. Plus, my sweat is super corrosive so I need a mag release that I wouldn't rust shut. 
Back to Glock it was. 
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Posted: 6/8/2015 1:19:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Beretta 92 with safety left on.
Kinda hides the firing pin
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Posted: 6/8/2015 6:44:18 AM EDT
[#7]
To be fair, I wouldn't carry a cocked-and-longed gun in my pocket either. It's not an irrational fear, it's just a preference. I like the extra safety of a longer trigger pull.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 12:34:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Definitely one that is concerned about all that can start with a revolver or like someone said a DAO pistol. I would think even DA/SA would make him comfortable. Like someone said the M9 is safe with the hammer down AND you can engage the safety.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 4:11:22 PM EDT
[#9]
One of my co-workers has the same issues. He does not carry yet but says he will not carry with a round in the pipe because he says what if it went off. Only thing I could say is we can agree to disagree and that guns do not go off unless your finger or something presses the bang switch and if you are concerned it might go off in your holster it is time for another holster.
You cannot reason with people who base decisions on fears of what if. |
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Posted: 6/8/2015 7:12:04 PM EDT
[#10]
HK P7.
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Posted: 6/8/2015 7:40:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my co-workers has the same issues. He does not carry yet but says he will not carry with a round in the pipe because he says what if it went off. Only thing I could say is we can agree to disagree and that guns do not go off unless your finger or something presses the bang switch and if you are concerned it might go off in your holster it is time for another holster. You cannot reason with people who base decisions on fears of what if. Don't the Israeli's still carry without one in the pipe? Retarded IMO but each to their own. |
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Posted: 6/8/2015 9:31:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for the replies!
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Posted: 6/9/2015 2:40:12 AM EDT
[#13]
That stuff goes away after he's carried for a while. Some people still live with the impression that firearms work like magic.
I had a scare with a POS kimber that was cocked and knocked off a counter. The safety lever came out of the gun, with a round still chambered, and the slide locked up. Ear and eye pro went on, and I don't remember what I had to do to clear it, but the next day I traded that away in a hurry. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 10:48:02 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't the Israeli's still carry without one in the pipe? Retarded IMO but each to their own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One of my co-workers has the same issues. He does not carry yet but says he will not carry with a round in the pipe because he says what if it went off. Only thing I could say is we can agree to disagree and that guns do not go off unless your finger or something presses the bang switch and if you are concerned it might go off in your holster it is time for another holster. You cannot reason with people who base decisions on fears of what if. Don't the Israeli's still carry without one in the pipe? Retarded IMO but each to their own. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 11:56:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't the Israeli's still carry without one in the pipe? Retarded IMO but each to their own. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One of my co-workers has the same issues. He does not carry yet but says he will not carry with a round in the pipe because he says what if it went off. Only thing I could say is we can agree to disagree and that guns do not go off unless your finger or something presses the bang switch and if you are concerned it might go off in your holster it is time for another holster. You cannot reason with people who base decisions on fears of what if. Don't the Israeli's still carry without one in the pipe? Retarded IMO but each to their own. I may have a private discussion with him on it but yeah to each his own. |
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Posted: 6/9/2015 8:45:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Things I have done with a chambered G22 or G27 on my right hip IWB....
Bowled Shot hoops Ran Biked Climbed ladders Minor work on a car(under & interior) Game of kickball Gym workout And I could go on.... Still here
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Posted: 6/9/2015 9:05:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Glock has 3 safeties, but if he's worried about NDs, probably more NDs with something getting caught in the trigger guards vs dropped hammers.
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Posted: 6/10/2015 5:14:53 PM EDT
[#18]
My HK P2000SK has a LEM trigger so it's DAO. No safety to click off, consistent light pull, bobbed hammer that won't catch on anything, firing pin blocked and in a good holster. I bet he'd like a setup like this.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 7:03:25 PM EDT
[#19]
How would it have turned out for G.Zimmerman if he had to take the time to off the safety and or rack one in with maybe one hand.
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Posted: 6/12/2015 8:39:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would it have turned out for G.Zimmerman if he had to take the time to off the safety and or rack one in with maybe one hand. Z is a complete moron...he got LUCKY!!! He should not be looked at as what to do cause he did a lot WRONG. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:27:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Z is a complete moron...he got LUCKY!!! He should not be looked at as what to do cause he did a lot WRONG. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How would it have turned out for G.Zimmerman if he had to take the time to off the safety and or rack one in with maybe one hand. Z is a complete moron...he got LUCKY!!! He should not be looked at as what to do cause he did a lot WRONG. The argument is sound, though. People who don't carry with one in the chamber are betting their life on a very tenuous assumption: that they will have the opportunity and the use of both hands to make the pistol ready for defense. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 10:44:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Possibly suggest he get a glock and carry without a round in the chamber Israeli style and train that way, then when he comes around and stops being a paranoid baby he will have a gun that will be best suited for the job and can just carry with a round in the chamber like the 87% rest of us on arfcom.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:11:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Possibly suggest he get a glock and carry without a round in the chamber Israeli style and train that way, then when he comes around and stops being a paranoid baby he will have a gun that will be best suited for the job and can just carry with a round in the chamber like the 87% rest of us on arfcom. Or suggest that he stop thinking irrationally (might be an uphill battle) and carry a handgun as intended- loaded and on safe (or with a suitably heavy DA trigger, as in a revolver). If he insists on carrying with an empty chamber, perhaps some timed draw-rack-shoot drills would show the folly of the notion. You could even up the effect and do some mock force-on-force drills (weapon unloaded, of course, or a trainer could be used) and really drive the point home. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 1:54:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You cannot reason with people who base decisions on fears of what if. *shrug* If we didn't have fears of what if, none of us would bother to carry... |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 2:32:24 PM EDT
[#25]
S&W 3rd generation semi-auto, with safety. He can carry it safety on, so it won't fire, it has a magazine disconnect, so it won't shoot without a magazine, and the safety blocks access to the firing pin while it is on.
The only thing "Safer" than that is carrying a gun without a loaded chamber and racking the slide when you draw it. Note: I'm not advocating the second option, but if he's THAT paranoid about the gun "going off" by itself, these are his two best choices. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 9:55:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
S&W 3rd generation semi-auto, with safety. He can carry it safety on, so it won't fire, it has a magazine disconnect, so it won't shoot without a magazine, and the safety blocks access to the firing pin while it is on. The only thing "Safer" than that is carrying a gun without a loaded chamber and racking the slide when you draw it. Note: I'm not advocating the second option, but if he's THAT paranoid about the gun "going off" by itself, these are his two best choices. I consider magazine disconnects to be a liability. There is no substitute for training. Take him to the range and show him how to do it right. Instill confidence through good practice. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 10:55:51 AM EDT
[#27]
Thanks for the replies! He's actually not a new shooter. Just doesn't trust that one won't just go off lol. He is leaning towards a dao gun currently. I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's.
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Posted: 6/14/2015 11:35:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Mexican-carried a G27 for years working plainclothes assignment. Over fences, underneath cars, "wrastlin',"etc. and never had it fall out or ND although I've lost mags that fell out of mag pouches. I now carry an XD which provides an extra measure of safety but with a good holster. My BIL tells me the same story about not feeling comfy with round in the chamber so I encouraged him to carry his FNX instead of his Glock.
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Posted: 6/15/2015 7:27:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Pull bullet and powder, have him carry a primed case. See how long before he figures it out. Make him a bet.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 5:39:08 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the replies! He's actually not a new shooter. Just doesn't trust that one won't just go off lol. He is leaning towards a dao gun currently. I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's. Your buddy needs to take some PROFESSIONAL training to alleviate his irrational fear of mechanical failure. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 11:03:43 AM EDT
[#31]
You're right, he's wrong.
Some people prefer to wallow in ignorance. I had an Instagram argument  with some retard who insisted that the only safe firearm for carry is a DA revolver. He said Glocks were particularly inherently unsafe because the striker was under load at all times.Idiot. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 1:45:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's. Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 6:32:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's. Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. I didn't know that thanks I'll have to tell him to check them out too! |
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Posted: 6/22/2015 10:47:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Things I have done with a chambered G22 or G27 on my right hip IWB.... Bowled Shot hoops Ran Biked Climbed ladders Minor work on a car(under & interior) Game of kickball Gym workout And I could go on.... Still here Just went bowling last night with a m&p9c in a kybrid holster...no one died. |
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Posted: 6/23/2015 7:25:47 PM EDT
[#35]
People have only been carrying "cocked and locked" for 100 years now
If you consider the billions of times people have carried like with no incidence compared to the very small number of accidents the probability of a failure is spectacularly low (even if you include issues from dbags not knowing proper gun safety). Your friend is operating under the precautionary principle where if there is even the slightest chance something could be negative the event should be avoided. People tend to focus on rare events like airplane crashes and not focus on things like car accidents, lightning strikes or drowning in a bucket that account for considerably more injuries/deaths. The incidence of armed robbery, assault, homicide and the number of times people used handguns in self defense is considerably more than incidences of failure even from stupid user error is was less. So, with respect to minimizing harm when you average out number of incidences of harm caused by the user or gun carrying concealed regardless of type versus number of incidences of bodily harm from crime I would suggest even if you could quantify concealed carry freak accidents, that number would still not be great enough to dissuade a logical person from not carrying if the end goal was to minimize the probability of bodily harm.
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Posted: 6/26/2015 6:01:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's. Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. I wonder if the movement of the striker is actually enough for your thumb to actually block it if the trigger was being pulled. Seems like it wouldn't work. Just the fleshy part of your thumb as some give to it. That's a whole lot different than a DA hammered gun that has to travel pretty far. I guess if you felt it moving, on the PPS, it would be an indication to stop what you're doing. |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 6:16:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if the movement of the striker is actually enough for your thumb to actually block it if the trigger was being pulled. Seems like it wouldn't work. Just the fleshy part of your thumb as some give to it. That's a whole lot different than a DA hammered gun that has to travel pretty far. I guess if you felt it moving, on the PPS, it would be an indication to stop what you're doing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm trying to sell him on the glock because the striker isn't fully cocked like it is on xd's and mnp's. Walther PPS is also a partial precock striker like the Glocks. It actually has a neat safety feature for holstering as the end of the striker is exposed at the back of the slide, and similar to a DA pistol, you can put your thumb over the striker during holstering and prevent it from firing if something would be in the trigger guard or whatever. I wonder if the movement of the striker is actually enough for your thumb to actually block it if the trigger was being pulled. Seems like it wouldn't work. Just the fleshy part of your thumb as some give to it. That's a whole lot different than a DA hammered gun that has to travel pretty far. I guess if you felt it moving, on the PPS, it would be an indication to stop what you're doing. Your hypothesis fails if you actually try it on a PPS. It's essentially impossible to make it fire with your thumb over the striker. I couldn't do it by pulling the trigger, or pushing into a holster with finger in the trigger guard. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 6:16:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Aaah, OK. Yeah I've never handled one. I guess the engineers knew what they were doing.
Hey, you never know, sometimes they don't..... Not saying HK specifically but just sometimes things don't always translate in real life as to what the theory behind it is.
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Posted: 7/3/2015 11:40:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Hands down the best gun for this thread is the HK P7M8 or M13. Because of the design, you have a round in the chamber, but, the striker pin is Not cocked until you draw the weapon and squeeze the grip. To the uninitiated this sounds bizarre or complex. Back in 1988 I used to think the same thing. Until I actually, physically held on and squeezed the grip. It is a very natural action to use and very simple to learn. It's the safest handgun I own. Unlike the Glock, if you accidentally catch the trigger on something when holstering it (yes, I know it seems impossible, but I have read about this happening), the HK pistol cannot fire because the striker pin is not cocked. Tell all this to your scared friend.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 7:48:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hands down the best gun for this thread is the HK P7M8 or M13. Because of the design, you have a round in the chamber, but, the striker pin is Not cocked until you draw the weapon and squeeze the grip. To the uninitiated this sounds bizarre or complex. Back in 1988 I used to think the same thing. Until I actually, physically held on and squeezed the grip. It is a very natural action to use and very simple to learn. It's the safest handgun I own. Unlike the Glock, if you accidentally catch the trigger on something when holstering it (yes, I know it seems impossible, but I have read about this happening), the HK pistol cannot fire because the striker pin is not cocked. Tell all this to your scared friend. |
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Posted: 7/10/2015 1:01:04 PM EDT
[#41]
cowboy carry a da revolver.
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Posted: 7/13/2015 8:22:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Glock-empty pipe-battlehook sight if he can't cope with idea of cocked and safety on with another style of gun. My CHL instructor was not a fan of safeties, or the term safety. He carries a Glock with one in the pipe. I choose an empty pipe while carrying.
I would hope that cops carry with one in the pipe ready to go. |
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Posted: 7/13/2015 8:40:16 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock-empty pipe-battlehook sight if he can't cope with idea of cocked and safety on with another style of gun. My CHL instructor was not a fan of safeties, or the term safety. He carries a Glock with one in the pipe. I choose an empty pipe while carrying. I would hope that cops carry with one in the pipe ready to go. "chamber" is the word you are looking for |
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Posted: 7/23/2015 2:07:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Have him get a SAA and carry five rounds with the hammer down on the empty chamber.
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Posted: 8/3/2015 11:34:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HK P7. We have a winner! Not cocked until it is out of your holster and in your hand, yet has a sweet trigger once cocked with the squeeze of the grip. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:40:51 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he's THAT paranoid and obtuse, he might not be the kind of person suitable to carry a firearm, period. 
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:36:21 PM EDT
[#47]
Just tell your buddy he is completely right and not to carry a gun at all because everyone knows that's the safest course of action.
Like others have said, we can't "what if" everything but we can train. Tell him to train with what he's comfortable with and you do the same. |
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