User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 3:22:22 AM EDT
[#1]
True necessity is the mother of invention (and sensible carry choices).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 3:24:56 AM EDT
[#2]
I recently switched from an sp101 to a glock 19 for the same reason. I used to think that I wanted enough stopping power for whatever came my way, now I think more in terms of numbers. These are the times we live in. I'd go for capacity.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 8:07:57 AM EDT
[#3]
I agree with your sentiments and sometimes I am concerned. In the winter I carry 4 reloads, two 8 rounders and two 10 rounders. Now that it's summer, it's harder to carry 4 spare mags. At a minimum two of them stay on me and two stay in the vehicle. When Ferguson kicked off, I switched to my G19 for a while.
My main concern was having to egress carrying my toddler and not being able to reload. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 10:24:49 AM EDT
[#4]
I agree with your thought process. My main gun is a G23 and an spare mag. I've upgraded to a g22 mag for the extra 2 rounds but with summer approaching I'll be changing to my sheild 9mm. I try to avoid Boston but sometimes work takes me to or through some rough places.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 12:10:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Dosent matter what you carry, should you need it your probably not gonna stop firing until you run out of bullets. If you ever look up stats on police and civilian shootings most empty the mag. Few years back I had responded to a officer involved shooting. 25+ years officer with over a quarter century controlled fire training, yada yada yada... When he was attacked and slashed and stabbed multiple times he emptied his g21 at the guy withing arms length distance. So moral of the story is for all the cory and erika watchers who think they are jedi knights and gonna double taps all day. When your in the moment gross motor takes over and your gonna pull that trigger till it dosent work!
So yes, at least 1 reload is a good thing. No matter what the rounds. I pocket cary a lcp and always have a 7rd in a kytex brand mag clip on my belt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 12:20:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Just anecdotal, but I have noticed that recent robberies/murders of people here in Philly; people walking their dogs, delivery truck drivers, the cop who was shot in North Philly recently during a robbery, etc. seem to often involve two adolescent or young adult male perpetrators. I don't know if this is a trend, or what. Maybe there is an interaction, "I bet you we can do this." sort of thing.
But I think it is a very realistic to expect more than one assailant. And the home invasions I have heard about invariably involve more than one perpetrator; often three, sometimes four. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 4:17:24 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Maybe Im just paranoid, but I've been carrying a Dan Wesson Valor 1911 .45 ACP with 2-3 spare mags. With all the riots, gang violence, and bullshit going down, It seems that while it is likely I may never use my weapon, it IS likely that if I do, it may be gang related/multiple offender related. Most breakins Im seeing are multiple people. These riots in cities (Im about to move to SA for job training, then DFW) Im starting to think 8-9 rounds of .45 may not be enough. Or maybe its not "not enough", but that I'd feel more comfortable with 17 rounds of 9mm from my CZ75. Seriously thinking Im going to go back to my CZ75B as my main carry piece. I carry a G23 with one spare mag, so 13+1+13. That said, no way I would feel undergunned with 8-9 rounds of .45acp. However, I would be way more concerned with the fact that my DW Valor would be confiscated if I ever had to use it! As to home invasions/burglaries/break-ins... 30 rounds of 5.56 sounds better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2015 8:20:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carry a G23 with one spare mag, so 13+1+13. That said, no way I would feel undergunned with 8-9 rounds of .45acp. However, I would be way more concerned with the fact that my DW Valor would be confiscated if I ever had to use it! As to home invasions/burglaries/break-ins... 30 rounds of 5.56 sounds better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe Im just paranoid, but I've been carrying a Dan Wesson Valor 1911 .45 ACP with 2-3 spare mags. With all the riots, gang violence, and bullshit going down, It seems that while it is likely I may never use my weapon, it IS likely that if I do, it may be gang related/multiple offender related. Most breakins Im seeing are multiple people. These riots in cities (Im about to move to SA for job training, then DFW) Im starting to think 8-9 rounds of .45 may not be enough. Or maybe its not "not enough", but that I'd feel more comfortable with 17 rounds of 9mm from my CZ75. Seriously thinking Im going to go back to my CZ75B as my main carry piece. I carry a G23 with one spare mag, so 13+1+13. That said, no way I would feel undergunned with 8-9 rounds of .45acp. However, I would be way more concerned with the fact that my DW Valor would be confiscated if I ever had to use it! As to home invasions/burglaries/break-ins... 30 rounds of 5.56 sounds better. That too. I think Im going to move towards a CZ75B as my main IWB carry weapon at 3:30-4o clock, and a CZ 2075 RAMI as a BUG since they take the same mags. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2015 12:25:14 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm all'bout dat capacity tho
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2015 6:18:55 PM EDT
[#10]
I recently updated all my Hi Power carry mags from Mec-Gar 13 rounders to 15, and the spare I carry in my cargo pocket is now a 20. 47 rounds on tap in two mags is nice. I prefer having too much rather than too little. I would never think of carrying a 1911 for the capacity issue alone.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2015 6:02:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Exactly why I'm not a big fan of .45's I like lots of lead 2 mags of .40 for me for 25 rounds total |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2015 10:11:37 PM EDT
[#12]
I often venture out with a j frame and one reload. One thing about these large groups is they are mostly cowards and after the first one is hit they will scatter.
The concept that a group of five or six are going to stand and fight is pretty far fetched. Could it happen sure but at some point you have to think it is not realistic to carry more ammo than the standard combat load issued to our troops in a war zone |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2015 10:34:10 PM EDT
[#13]
.45 Colt Commander with two 8 round reloads. Some days I also carry a Glock 26 in an ankle holster as a BUG.
JAKE |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2015 12:18:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I often venture out with a j frame and one reload. One thing about these large groups is they are mostly cowards and after the first one is hit they will scatter. The concept that a group of five or six are going to stand and fight is pretty far fetched. Could it happen sure but at some point you have to think it is not realistic to carry more ammo than the standard combat load issued to our troops in a war zone As far as I know, a G19 + G17 mag for reload < combat load for troops in war zone. I'd have to have a pistol, a few spare mags, rifle and 180-240 rds of 5.56 to get to "combat load" of ammo. 10 rounds of .38/.357 may be good enough for you to feel ok with things.........but I also don't see any problem with carrying a cop's typical load either (G17/19 + 2 spare mags). Additionally, carrying a spare mag helps with a common failure point with semi-auto pistols (the magazine). It's not just the extra ammo that is important. It's the ability to quickly replace a malfunctioning piece of equipment. Shrug. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2015 3:30:39 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as I know, a G19 + G17 mag for reload < combat load for troops in war zone. I'd have to have a pistol, a few spare mags, rifle and 180-240 rds of 5.56 to get to "combat load" of ammo. 10 rounds of .38/.357 may be good enough for you to feel ok with things.........but I also don't see any problem with carrying a cop's typical load either (G17/19 + 2 spare mags). Additionally, carrying a spare mag helps with a common failure point with semi-auto pistols (the magazine). It's not just the extra ammo that is important. It's the ability to quickly replace a malfunctioning piece of equipment. Shrug. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I often venture out with a j frame and one reload. One thing about these large groups is they are mostly cowards and after the first one is hit they will scatter. The concept that a group of five or six are going to stand and fight is pretty far fetched. Could it happen sure but at some point you have to think it is not realistic to carry more ammo than the standard combat load issued to our troops in a war zone As far as I know, a G19 + G17 mag for reload < combat load for troops in war zone. I'd have to have a pistol, a few spare mags, rifle and 180-240 rds of 5.56 to get to "combat load" of ammo. 10 rounds of .38/.357 may be good enough for you to feel ok with things.........but I also don't see any problem with carrying a cop's typical load either (G17/19 + 2 spare mags). Additionally, carrying a spare mag helps with a common failure point with semi-auto pistols (the magazine). It's not just the extra ammo that is important. It's the ability to quickly replace a malfunctioning piece of equipment. Shrug. +1 |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2015 10:54:46 AM EDT
[#16]
I carry a G19 myself for this reason with a spare mag, a 17+ext mag and 33rd mag in the truck and two knives on me at all times. Along with a long gun of some sort (AR\Rem870\SCAR17) stowed in the back of my truck.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/6/2015 11:36:04 PM EDT
[#17]
My glock 19, with a 17 mag (with the plus 2) is 35 rounds.
I love the 1911 platform, but have walked away from it primarily because of capacity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/7/2015 8:03:37 AM EDT
[#18]
i love my 1911s. I carry one reload. If I ever have to use it I want my best shooting/most familiar platform. If you fire 15 rounds and still have oncoming trouble you better retreat, if I get to the truck I have an ar pistol with 250 rounds. I'm not carrying to go to battle, just avoid it. Plus I am in a very rural country setting. if I was in the city a lot I might think capacity.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/7/2015 8:35:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My main concern was having to egress carrying my toddler and not being able to reload. I have a 3 year old daughter and a 6 month old and I've thought a lot about this. Frankly the thought of being in a situation where I am forced to clear leather while carrying my girls in a high stress situation terrifies me. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/7/2015 10:11:43 AM EDT
[#20]
I think the DW is fine.
It's all about training and practice. I've been carrying the same LW Commander for 15+ years. Gone through all manners of training and the odd tuneup class. That old beatup gun is a body part now. I can hold my own out there. The OP can too with regular training and practice. And an AR or 12ga in the trunk. YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/7/2015 11:23:29 PM EDT
[#21]
I have taken a few simunitions force-on-force classes at the SIG Academy, and the biggest thing I took away from them is CAPACITY IS KING! Despite my training on static ranges being a response of 2-3 rnds, under stress I found that my response was rarely less than 5 rnds during an encounter, especially because the training is "shoot until the threat ends". This was reinforced by a concept introduced to me by a member here (i cant remember who); their rule of thumb was be prepared to be able to put 3 rounds into 3 threats, and only expect a 50% hit ratio- 18 rounds. There was a member here (I forget who, but if someone could post the link that would be great) who was cornered on a sidewalk by 4 armed attackers, 2 in front, 2 behind. With his 1911 with 8+1 performed mozambiques to end the 2 threats in front, and immediately worried about having enough ammo to handle the threats behind him before having to reload (the 2 behind him took off before he had to engage them). This is part of the reason I usually carry a double stack 9mm over a single stack.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 3:25:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have taken a few simunitions force-on-force classes at the SIG Academy, and the biggest thing I took away from them is CAPACITY IS KING! Despite my training on static ranges being a response of 2-3 rnds, under stress I found that my response was rarely less than 5 rnds during an encounter, especially because the training is "shoot until the threat ends". This was reinforced by a concept introduced to me by a member here (i cant remember who); their rule of thumb was be prepared to be able to put 3 rounds into 3 threats, and only expect a 50% hit ratio- 18 rounds. There was a member here (I forget who, but if someone could post the link that would be great) who was cornered on a sidewalk by 4 armed attackers, 2 in front, 2 behind. With his 1911 with 8+1 performed mozambiques to end the 2 threats in front, and immediately worried about having enough ammo to handle the threats behind him before having to reload (the 2 behind him took off before he had to engage them). This is part of the reason I usually carry a double stack 9mm over a single stack. I think I read that story. It was organized crime/kidnappers. Poor bastard was on a date with a lady friend who didn't stay with him long term. IIRC he went into hiding for the trial, was tracked down, and shot/killed one more in his home. Capacity is king. People play around with jokes like "If this then bad parts of town" "If blah then not doing x right". If I am using my gun, nothing is right. As long as I am threatened, I will keep shooting. My 1911 no longer satisfies me as a carry firearm. And frankly, My bullshit once a month range training isn't enough. I need and want more training. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 8:28:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think I read that story. It was organized crime/kidnappers. Poor bastard was on a date with a lady friend who didn't stay with him long term. IIRC he went into hiding for the trial, was tracked down, and shot/killed one more in his home. Capacity is king. People play around with jokes like "If this then bad parts of town" "If blah then not doing x right". If I am using my gun, nothing is right. As long as I am threatened, I will keep shooting. My 1911 no longer satisfies me as a carry firearm. And frankly, My bullshit once a month range training isn't enough. I need and want more training. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have taken a few simunitions force-on-force classes at the SIG Academy, and the biggest thing I took away from them is CAPACITY IS KING! Despite my training on static ranges being a response of 2-3 rnds, under stress I found that my response was rarely less than 5 rnds during an encounter, especially because the training is "shoot until the threat ends". This was reinforced by a concept introduced to me by a member here (i cant remember who); their rule of thumb was be prepared to be able to put 3 rounds into 3 threats, and only expect a 50% hit ratio- 18 rounds. There was a member here (I forget who, but if someone could post the link that would be great) who was cornered on a sidewalk by 4 armed attackers, 2 in front, 2 behind. With his 1911 with 8+1 performed mozambiques to end the 2 threats in front, and immediately worried about having enough ammo to handle the threats behind him before having to reload (the 2 behind him took off before he had to engage them). This is part of the reason I usually carry a double stack 9mm over a single stack. I think I read that story. It was organized crime/kidnappers. Poor bastard was on a date with a lady friend who didn't stay with him long term. IIRC he went into hiding for the trial, was tracked down, and shot/killed one more in his home. Capacity is king. People play around with jokes like "If this then bad parts of town" "If blah then not doing x right". If I am using my gun, nothing is right. As long as I am threatened, I will keep shooting. My 1911 no longer satisfies me as a carry firearm. And frankly, My bullshit once a month range training isn't enough. I need and want more training. That almost reads like a TV show. 
I like my G17 for carry and completely understand the logic. FWIW also look into USPSA or another gun game. Getting good hits quick is the name of the game, nothing but benefits. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 9:50:45 AM EDT
[#24]
I think capacity is king for carry. If you think about how intense a situation like that must be I see a lot of reasons you may need many rounds. I currently carry a shield but am desperately looking for a rig that will allow me to carry a mid-full size (M&P9 or G19) and actually still conceal it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/8/2015 9:53:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That almost reads like a TV show.
I like my G17 for carry and completely understand the logic. FWIW also look into USPSA or another gun game. Getting good hits quick is the name of the game, nothing but benefits. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have taken a few simunitions force-on-force classes at the SIG Academy, and the biggest thing I took away from them is CAPACITY IS KING! Despite my training on static ranges being a response of 2-3 rnds, under stress I found that my response was rarely less than 5 rnds during an encounter, especially because the training is "shoot until the threat ends". This was reinforced by a concept introduced to me by a member here (i cant remember who); their rule of thumb was be prepared to be able to put 3 rounds into 3 threats, and only expect a 50% hit ratio- 18 rounds. There was a member here (I forget who, but if someone could post the link that would be great) who was cornered on a sidewalk by 4 armed attackers, 2 in front, 2 behind. With his 1911 with 8+1 performed mozambiques to end the 2 threats in front, and immediately worried about having enough ammo to handle the threats behind him before having to reload (the 2 behind him took off before he had to engage them). This is part of the reason I usually carry a double stack 9mm over a single stack. I think I read that story. It was organized crime/kidnappers. Poor bastard was on a date with a lady friend who didn't stay with him long term. IIRC he went into hiding for the trial, was tracked down, and shot/killed one more in his home. Capacity is king. People play around with jokes like "If this then bad parts of town" "If blah then not doing x right". If I am using my gun, nothing is right. As long as I am threatened, I will keep shooting. My 1911 no longer satisfies me as a carry firearm. And frankly, My bullshit once a month range training isn't enough. I need and want more training. That almost reads like a TV show.
I like my G17 for carry and completely understand the logic. FWIW also look into USPSA or another gun game. Getting good hits quick is the name of the game, nothing but benefits. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I had the most fun shooting speed steel and bowling pins. I used the same gun I carry today. Pin shooting is a blast!. I shot a lot of USPSA. I got tired of the ringers. Gave up after a few years. If you can find a single-stack match, those are geared towards us dinosaurs who still have 1911's. I didn't care for IDPA. YMMV. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2015 7:05:23 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think capacity is king for carry. If you think about how intense a situation like that must be I see a lot of reasons you may need many rounds. I currently carry a shield but am desperately looking for a rig that will allow me to carry a mid-full size (M&P9 or G19) and actually still conceal it. What is your wardrobe like? Maybe your "rig" problems are in the fact that you wear tighter clothing? Also, G19 has 15+1, G17 is 17+1. That's only a 2 round difference. Reloads can be G17 mags. G19 is way easier to conceal. Ares ranger belt + Quality IWB kydex holster + clothing properly fit to accommodate the gun = good concealment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/9/2015 5:46:11 PM EDT
[#27]
If you carry all that ammunition then you must not be planning on hitting anything.
In that case, carry a string of firecrackers and a Zippo! You will make the same amount of noise...
You will create the same amount of damage - maybe more if they set fire to something... If you can't hit a target, Don't Shoot 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2015 12:54:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your wardrobe like? Maybe your "rig" problems are in the fact that you wear tighter clothing? Also, G19 has 15+1, G17 is 17+1. That's only a 2 round difference. Reloads can be G17 mags. G19 is way easier to conceal. Ares ranger belt + Quality IWB kydex holster + clothing properly fit to accommodate the gun = good concealment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think capacity is king for carry. If you think about how intense a situation like that must be I see a lot of reasons you may need many rounds. I currently carry a shield but am desperately looking for a rig that will allow me to carry a mid-full size (M&P9 or G19) and actually still conceal it. What is your wardrobe like? Maybe your "rig" problems are in the fact that you wear tighter clothing? Also, G19 has 15+1, G17 is 17+1. That's only a 2 round difference. Reloads can be G17 mags. G19 is way easier to conceal. Ares ranger belt + Quality IWB kydex holster + clothing properly fit to accommodate the gun = good concealment. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/11/2015 7:42:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I have taken a few simunitions force-on-force classes at the SIG Academy, and the biggest thing I took away from them is CAPACITY IS KING! Despite my training on static ranges being a response of 2-3 rnds, under stress I found that my response was rarely less than 5 rnds during an encounter, especially because the training is "shoot until the threat ends". This was reinforced by a concept introduced to me by a member here (i cant remember who); their rule of thumb was be prepared to be able to put 3 rounds into 3 threats, and only expect a 50% hit ratio- 18 rounds. There was a member here (I forget who, but if someone could post the link that would be great) who was cornered on a sidewalk by 4 armed attackers, 2 in front, 2 behind. With his 1911 with 8+1 performed mozambiques to end the 2 threats in front, and immediately worried about having enough ammo to handle the threats behind him before having to reload (the 2 behind him took off before he had to engage them). This is part of the reason I usually carry a double stack 9mm over a single stack. Best thing about force on force is it shows you that everything you do on a range is nearly useless in a firefight. IMO most important three skills are 1. Shooting on the move, 2. Point shooting, 3. Learning to seek/use cover. Learning to combine all of these is what matters. Standing in a static position on a shooting range isn't practical for anything other then weapons familiarization. If your lucky you catch a flash sight picture. Takes a lot of training/discipline to actually line up the sights and properly press the trigger on a handgun in the middle of a 'firefight' with non-lethal rounds... Don't even imagine when your life is on the line. Quoted:
I often venture out with a j frame and one reload. One thing about these large groups is they are mostly cowards and after the first one is hit they will scatter. The concept that a group of five or six are going to stand and fight is pretty far fetched. Could it happen sure but at some point you have to think it is not realistic to carry more ammo than the standard combat load issued to our troops in a war zone The strategy really should be put rounds on target while back-peddling/seeking cover and sprinting the hell out of there when possible. Aggressively going up against multiple armed opponents is stupid and reduces your risk of survival drastically. Unless its an active shooter its just not worth it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/13/2015 1:13:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you carry all that ammunition then you must not be planning on hitting anything. In that case, carry a string of firecrackers and a Zippo! You will make the same amount of noise... You will create the same amount of damage - maybe more if they set fire to something... If you can't hit a target, Don't Shoot So the military carry too much ammo? 
As do police? Never seen a robbery with more than ten people. So police should carry 10 rounds? Your logic is stupid. 
If I am attacked by 3 people I practice the failure drill, so I use 3 per person, with that being 9 rounds. Its high stress. Im human. They are moving. I am moving. I am being shot at. You think I shouldn't carry a gun because I might miss?? 
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
