Previous Page
Page:  / 2
Author
Message
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5403
Feedback: 100% (3)
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:03:19 PM
[Last Edit: 8/25/2012 6:03:25 PM by Sierra5]

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Has anybody attempted to fly with a handgun in checked baggage with United before? I understad the basic concept but after about 8 phone calls I finally got an answer from them but it seemed odd so wanted to run it by someone more knowledgeable.

They said that the locked case I have my handgun in can not be secured in another bag, say a suitcase. So even if the case is a nano vault or pelican, it would be treated as seperate luggage and I would incur a charge.

Its been years since I last flew but could have sworn I flew with a gun case inside a larger bag. Is this a TSA rule now or a United rule, specifically that a case cant go into other luggage?

UPDATE: So in the end it was a total non-issue. They didn't make me clear it or show them anything. Filled the tag, popped it in the nano, they sent it to the bag room and had me stand by while they x-rayed it in case they needed it opened. Once done I was on my way. The only different part was she whispered "ooooh" when I said I needed to check a firearm

I asked them why their 800 and desk line at HQ people told me what they did. She said the issue comes up often actually because their websites wording really sucks. It was meant to mirror TSA but someone put the wording in about a handgun being in a locked case inside locked hard side luggage only. Apparently it was never meant to say that or mean that. She said newer united people read it literally and hence the issue. If it ever comes up she said ask for a supervisor and they can clear it up usually. She also said their Paki/Indian call center reads the same stuff from a script as you call, repeats it, then also says its the same as TSA (like they did to me) when it's really not the same wordage at all in regards to being in hard sided luggage. I specifically asked her if on the flight back I was going to get caught in he said she said and she said "definately not".

So thanks for all the help guys!
bigkahuna48026
Offline
Posts: 216
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:24:35 PM
check the United Airlines web site. Talking with the people who answer the phone can be misleading. If you find something on their website, print it out and take it with you.

Check with the TSA site - same procedure.


Good Luck
Him
Member
Online
Posts: 3740
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:25:18 PM
It sounds to me as if someone is confused.

Wouldn't that make it even easier to steal?
BDinNC
Offline
Posts: 34
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:30:45 PM
From TSA's Website:

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

"Travelers may only transport UNLOADED firearms in a locked, hard-sided container in or as checked baggage. All firearms, ammunition and firearm parts, including firearm frames and receivers, are prohibited in carry-on baggage."

Travelers must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft.
If firearms are not properly declared or packaged, TSA will provide the bag to law enforcement for resolution with the airline. If the issue is resolved, law enforcement will release the bag to TSA so screening may be completed.
TSA must resolve all alarms of checked luggage. If a locked container containing a firearm alarms, TSA will contact the airline, who will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner and advise the passenger to go to the screening location. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
If a locked container alarms during screening and is not marked as containing a declared firearm, TSA will cut the lock in order to resolve the alarm.
Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Firearm magazines and ammunition clips must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above.
TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.

Hope that helps.

"Ammunition clips..." Sigh.......
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5404
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:44:34 PM
Yeah they passed me around to 6 Indian or paki reps before I got someone in the US. That person was some higher rep and fully understood the issue. He said their policy is what was reported to me. Firearms must be secured in a locked case or hard sided luggage, just like their website says, and that item is considered its own piece of luggage and may not be secured in another larger bag. I swear I've never called a more incompetent outfit in my life. I called frontier airlines and got an answer within 4 minutes, yes you can secure the firearm in a case within other luggage. They all though refer you to tsa and tsa refers you to the airlines specific policy. It's like a feedback loop of ineptness.
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5405
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:52:15 PM
[Last Edit: 8/14/2012 6:56:59 PM by Sierra5]
Check this out, confusing as hell. Basically a handgun must be in hard sided lockable luggage and apparently that means the case according to everyone I talked to. So the case can't be secured in another case. Fuck United.

United accepts one item of shooting equipment per customer as checked baggage. One item of shooting equipment is defined as one hard-sided shooting equipment case containing up to five firearms, with or without scopes, 11 lbs. (5 kg) of ammunition and articles used in the firearm sport.

Firearms will be accepted only from a customer who is 18 years of age or older.
International firearm regulations vary by destination and transiting country. Contact appropriate consulates or embassies to obtain specific entry requirements applicable to destination(s).
Firearms are not accepted to and from Bahrain, Denmark, Israel, Nigeria, Qatar and Turkey.
For travel to and from the United Kingdom, pistols, rifles and shotguns must be packed in a hard side rifle case.
Customers traveling to or through Amsterdam, Netherlands (AMS) with checked firearms/ammunition must obtain permission from the Netherlands Consulate/Embassy in their country of origin prior to departure. Weapons are subject to confiscation in Amsterdam unless the owner can show all required permits. Customers traveling on military orders with checked firearms may do so without prior consent from Dutch Customs. Checked military ammunition is forbidden.
Customers traveling to Guatemala City, Guatemala (GUA) with checked firearms and/or ammunition must be in possession of a gun import license or a temporary transportation permit, which must be certified and validated by a Guatemalan Consulate. Customers traveling with checked firearms and/or ammunition through Guatemala City do not require a permit as long as their bag does not leave the airport controlled area. Customers must ensure they have all the necessary documents required at their final destination.
Curbside check-in of a firearm is not permitted.
The firearm must be packaged in a hard-sided container capable of being locked. The container must be locked and the key or combination must remain in the customer's possession. If a hard-sided container is needed, see the container section of this site.
Handguns must be packed in hard-side lockable luggage. Baggage containing handguns must be locked at the time of acceptance by United Airlines and the key or combination retained in the passenger's custody.
The firearm will be transported in a section of the aircraft that is inaccessible to the customer. Proof of registration is not required.
Firearms carried in addition to the free baggage allowance will be assessed at the current excess baggage charge.
No more than 11 pounds of ammunition may be carried. The ammunition may be packed in the same container as the firearm or in a separate container. Ammunition must be packed in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood or metal containers. The ammunition inside the container must be protected against shock and secured against movement.
If applicable, the first or second bag fee applies to checked firearms.

RenegadeX
Offline
Posts: 21335
Feedback: 100% (12)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:56:20 PM

I fly American with a nanovault in my regular luggage all the time, looks like the skies are as friendly on United.
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5406
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 6:57:38 PM
Originally Posted By RenegadeX:

I fly American with a nanovault in my regular luggage all the time, looks like the skies are as friendly on United.


Yeah see that's what I thought I had done last time, but it's been a while so I wondered if anything had changed.
GunDisaster
Member
Offline
Posts: 5417
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 7:00:13 PM
I've traveled with my handgun while flying with United before. I have a small hard pistol case with a built in lock on it. I put my unloaded pistol in it. I put the pistol case in my luggage bag.which also has a small lock on it. When checking in I tell them quietly that I will be flying with my pistol. They take me and my bag to a quiet area where I show them my gun is unloaded and locked in a case. They put a note on the gun case confirming they checked it. Then they take my bag to be put on the plane. When I arrive at the next airport my bag is usually just in the normal location with all the other checked baggage.
AR45fan
Member
Military
Online
Posts: 6020
Feedback: 100% (17)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 7:03:45 PM
Flying with a gun is easy in my experience.

It CAN go in your regular luggage. That's how I fly. When you check in just tell them there is a gun in your bag. They will send you to the TSA screener. The TSA screener will make sure it is unloaded, put some brightly colored tags on your bag, and send the bag down the conveyor. As long as your gun is in a lockable box, with a lock, and the ammo is in a separate container you'll be fine. Look toward the bottom of the list you have. The "container" that the gun and ammo can go in is your suitcase.

When you get to your destination, your bag will be on the carousel with all the other bags.

When you pick up your bag you are outside the secured area of the airport so you can hop right into the restroom, put your gun on, and go about your business.
SharpCharge
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 3685
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 7:38:09 PM
You can also have your ammo loaded in a magazine in the same case as the gun. Put the magazine in a mag pouch because the ammo has to be completely encased. Also, no loose rounds. Or you can have an empty mag and a box of ammo in the same locked case. Either way, no issue.
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5407
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 8:18:29 PM
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
I've traveled with my handgun while flying with United before. I have a small hard pistol case with a built in lock on it. I put my unloaded pistol in it. I put the pistol case in my luggage bag.which also has a small lock on it. When checking in I tell them quietly that I will be flying with my pistol. They take me and my bag to a quiet area where I show them my gun is unloaded and locked in a case. They put a note on the gun case confirming they checked it. Then they take my bag to be put on the plane. When I arrive at the next airport my bag is usually just in the normal location with all the other checked baggage.


I asked them if I could do just that and they said no. I told them tsa's regs an they said that theirs are more restrictive.

Id try it but can't afford to get stuck with a pistol and miss my flight.
myltwon
Offline
Posts: 23
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 10:23:43 PM
Not sure if it was already mentioned, but make sure the firearm is in an approved contained that can't be opened slightly from any point. I've heard of some people having problems with single locked cases if the tsa person could pry it slightly from one side or the other. Also make sure you have a couple keys of the lock with you just incase.
crux
Offline
Posts: 113
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 10:46:21 PM
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
You can also have your ammo loaded in a magazine in the same case as the gun. Put the magazine in a mag pouch because the ammo has to be completely encased. Also, no loose rounds. Or you can have an empty mag and a box of ammo in the same locked case. Either way, no issue.


This does not match my experience. Most airlines specify ammunition in original factory boc, or other container designed to store ammunition, not in mags. Make sure to read what your airline says carefully on that one.

After some trial and error I've come to find I have the best luck after specifying that I'm checking a bag matter of factly stating: "I would like to declare an unloaded pistol locked in a case inside my luggage." And follow instructions from there. I was always suprised how many times I was asked "is it loaded?" When I didn't specify this up front. I generally left the pistol locked slide open and two empty mags in the case. No problems.

SharpCharge
Member
Military
Offline
Posts: 3686
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/14/2012 11:51:35 PM

Originally Posted By crux:
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
You can also have your ammo loaded in a magazine in the same case as the gun. Put the magazine in a mag pouch because the ammo has to be completely encased. Also, no loose rounds. Or you can have an empty mag and a box of ammo in the same locked case. Either way, no issue.


This does not match my experience. Most airlines specify ammunition in original factory boc, or other container designed to store ammunition, not in mags. Make sure to read what your airline says carefully on that one.

After some trial and error I've come to find I have the best luck after specifying that I'm checking a bag matter of factly stating: "I would like to declare an unloaded pistol locked in a case inside my luggage." And follow instructions from there. I was always suprised how many times I was asked "is it loaded?" When I didn't specify this up front. I generally left the pistol locked slide open and two empty mags in the case. No problems.


Done it before, the only issue I had was the 1 loose round. Got that worked out.

Here's the quote from TSA on the issue...

  • Firearm magazines and ammunition clips must be securely boxed or included within a hard-sided case containing an unloaded firearm.
  • Small arms ammunition, including ammunition not exceeding .75 caliber for a rifle or pistol and shotgun shells of any gauge, may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows the packing guidelines described above.

TDunn
Member
NRAInstructor
Offline
Posts: 539
Feedback: 100% (28)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/15/2012 9:39:24 AM
[Last Edit: 8/15/2012 10:29:02 PM by TDunn]
I've flown on many airlines (including United) and never had any of them require me to remove the hard gun case from my soft large luggage and ship it separately. Most want to see the hard case, verify unloaded status, have you sign the card and drop it in the hard case. Close it up and lock it. Drop the hard case into the large bag. Lock the soft bag with TSA locks. And go.

I generally completely field strip the pistol before putting in the case. I did have one girl at the counter want to see it was unloaded even after seeing that it was in pieces. I held up the barrel and looked through it at her and she was happy. As another poster said, I discretely tell the lady at the counter that I have an UNLOADED firearm to declare in my checked bag and need the paperwork to complete. This seems to not raise their tension level too much.

I also always travel with a small amount of carry ammunition in original factory boxes. I generally put it inside another small hard case in the same bag. No one has ever had a problem with it either.

My last flight was with United about 6 months ago. If they have changed the policy since then, I won't be using them again.
Flatulence
Member
Offline
Posts: 2562
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/15/2012 10:05:22 AM
[Last Edit: 8/15/2012 10:06:32 AM by Flatulence]
Originally Posted By SharpCharge:
You can also have your ammo loaded in a magazine in the same case as the gun. Put the magazine in a mag pouch because the ammo has to be completely encased. Also, no loose rounds. Or you can have an empty mag and a box of ammo in the same locked case. Either way, no issue.


I've flown with the gun in a locked Pelican case that has all my toiletries and a few changes of clothes. MY locks. No issues.
My two mags are loaded and inserted into a double mag carrier that slips on a belt.
The round normally chambered is dropped into the mag carrier first, then the mag on top of it.
All fully encased. No issues there either.

They haven't even made me unlock the case to verify anything. I open the case and they drop the card in. I lock it back up and bring it to the TSA x-ray table. They scan and can see the status of the gun and ammo without opening the case.
They give me the thumbs up and I proceed to my gate.

Southwest Airlines usually.
"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"

Yes. Yes it does.
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5411
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/15/2012 6:22:21 PM
It must be a change then. I called again and same answer after being passed to be next higher level.
yadayada
Offline
Posts: 765
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/16/2012 10:58:40 AM
May have been a Continental policy. United/Continental have been combining policies and procedures.

One of the worst decisions is adopting Continental's reservation system. United gate agents hate it.
System is ancient and requires everything to be entered manually.
HCL3
Offline
Posts: 374
Feedback: 100% (5)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/23/2012 5:11:25 PM
This site has great info about flying with firearms including details about each airline's policy

There is also some good info about why you should not just put your gun in a nanovault and stick it in your regular checked luggage.

http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/
Onejzsupra
Offline
Posts: 217
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/23/2012 6:14:24 PM
Originally Posted By Sierra5:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
I've traveled with my handgun while flying with United before. I have a small hard pistol case with a built in lock on it. I put my unloaded pistol in it. I put the pistol case in my luggage bag.which also has a small lock on it. When checking in I tell them quietly that I will be flying with my pistol. They take me and my bag to a quiet area where I show them my gun is unloaded and locked in a case. They put a note on the gun case confirming they checked it. Then they take my bag to be put on the plane. When I arrive at the next airport my bag is usually just in the normal location with all the other checked baggage.


I asked them if I could do just that and they said no. I told them tsa's regs an they said that theirs are more restrictive.

Id try it but can't afford to get stuck with a pistol and miss my flight.


Sounds like they want that extra money from having an extra container.

dux20
Offline
Posts: 36
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/23/2012 11:26:23 PM
[Last Edit: 8/23/2012 11:36:02 PM by dux20]
I read this blog entry yesterday that went into some pretty good detail on flying with a firearm on United. You could probably email the blogger and ask her specific questions too.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/guns/2012/aug/19/miller-flying-gun/
justmatt
Member
Offline
Posts: 156
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:21:20 AM
[Last Edit: 8/24/2012 7:23:24 AM by justmatt]
You should pack your gun separately.
You should plan ahead, read your airline's particular rules (because they're all just different enough to be irritating), and communicate with them if you're confused.
If something seems off, you should ask again, and again, and ask the people at the desk, not the people on the phone. Here's an example:

I was planning a trip, and taking my Pelican 1750 rifle case, which exceeds the oversize measurements of most airlines. The two main airlines that flew where I wanted to go were Delta and USAir, neither of whom had I flown before while taking my 1750. USAir had the cheaper fare. Both have oversize fees, but Delta has a stated blanket exemption from their oversize limits for "Special Items," which explicitly includes rifle cases. USAir has no such stated exemption. I called USAir customer service to ask them about this. Four separate customer service agents on four separate phone calls all gave me an unequivocal "No exceptions" answer, so that would mean an additional $175 oversize fee each way. I went ahead and booked the ticket with Delta for $80 more before rates increased further.

I'm not far from the Orlando airport, so a couple weeks later I went over there, with my empty Pelican 1750 in tow, to verify with Delta that one rifle and three handguns would be acceptable to them, as their website was sorta vague. It was, no problem. While I was there, I walked down to the USAir counter, which was slammed. I finally got someone free, and explained the situation I was in, that the four phone agents had expressly and separately told me that I would be oversize. His response, before I even finished my explanation was (pointing at my rifle case), "That? We don't care, we'd just take that as it is." Without being rude, I pushed a little, stressed that it was technically outside their size limits, and I just wanted to make sure to avoid any surprises. He responded (nicely) that yeah, it probably was oversize; no, they didn't have a stated exception for rifle cases; and if I wanted him to break out the tape measure he could, but that, "We wouldn't worry about it. We'd just take that case as it is."

The lesson is that even the airline employees frequently have no idea what the hell they're talking about, but when in doubt, ask the people at the counter, because they're at the pointy end, and will actually be making the decision that affects you, unlike the disembodied voice on the phone.
It's dangerous being free, but most come to like the taste o' it.

Seems like an innocent question to make conversation but of course arfcom immediately blades and does a mag dump. - Colonel_Angus
lew
Senior MS13 Staff
Offline
Posts: 5172
Feedback: 100% (5)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/24/2012 9:11:10 AM
I flew on Delta a couple months ago. I had my pistol in a two-lock hard case, which was then put it our suitcase. Flying out of DTW, the Delta attendant had me verify that it was unloaded, I locked the case with her watching, signed a slip of paper that was put in the suitcase, and that was it. Flying back from PHX, the attendant did not ask to verify that it was unloaded, had me lock the case, and we were taken back to a room where a TSA agent did what I presume was an explosives residue swab. That was that, and, as you can see, the procedures are not uniform. At DTW, I was told I could not have rounds in the magazines (the gun was completely unloaded), and unloaded those into another box, and all was well. I left the rounds in the magazines flying back and there was no issue. Go figure.
"Whatever is begun in anger, ends in shame." Benjamin Franklin
justmatt
Member
Offline
Posts: 157
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/24/2012 2:52:23 PM
Most airlines have a "no loaded magazines" rule. I thought that it was a TSA rule, but I just checked their site and it says: "Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition." I suppose you could argue that a magazine was "other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition," but I don't think it'd get you anywhere. Airline regs trump TSA regs when the airline regs are more stringent.

I have flown with my guns in various quantities on three different airlines now, on approximately a dozen round trips, or 24 luggage legs. Only on the outbound leg of the very first one was my gun (only one at the time) physically inspected to ensure it was unloaded. She looked at the magazines without removing them because she could see the empty holes on the back, and she lifted the butt of the gun far enough to see inside the magazine well without actually lifting it entirely out of the case. On every other flight, I've simply been asked if they were unloaded and signed the card to affirm it.
It's dangerous being free, but most come to like the taste o' it.

Seems like an innocent question to make conversation but of course arfcom immediately blades and does a mag dump. - Colonel_Angus
Sierra5
Man of 15 titles, most good
Instructor
Offline
Posts: 5496
Feedback: 100% (3)
Link To This Post
Posted: 8/24/2012 7:01:05 PM
Originally Posted By justmatt:
You should pack your gun separately.
You should plan ahead, read your airline's particular rules (because they're all just different enough to be irritating), and communicate with them if you're confused.
If something seems off, you should ask again, and again, and ask the people at the desk, not the people on the phone. Here's an example:

I was planning a trip, and taking my Pelican 1750 rifle case, which exceeds the oversize measurements of most airlines. The two main airlines that flew where I wanted to go were Delta and USAir, neither of whom had I flown before while taking my 1750. USAir had the cheaper fare. Both have oversize fees, but Delta has a stated blanket exemption from their oversize limits for "Special Items," which explicitly includes rifle cases. USAir has no such stated exemption. I called USAir customer service to ask them about this. Four separate customer service agents on four separate phone calls all gave me an unequivocal "No exceptions" answer, so that would mean an additional $175 oversize fee each way. I went ahead and booked the ticket with Delta for $80 more before rates increased further.

I'm not far from the Orlando airport, so a couple weeks later I went over there, with my empty Pelican 1750 in tow, to verify with Delta that one rifle and three handguns would be acceptable to them, as their website was sorta vague. It was, no problem. While I was there, I walked down to the USAir counter, which was slammed. I finally got someone free, and explained the situation I was in, that the four phone agents had expressly and separately told me that I would be oversize. His response, before I even finished my explanation was (pointing at my rifle case), "That? We don't care, we'd just take that as it is." Without being rude, I pushed a little, stressed that it was technically outside their size limits, and I just wanted to make sure to avoid any surprises. He responded (nicely) that yeah, it probably was oversize; no, they didn't have a stated exception for rifle cases; and if I wanted him to break out the tape measure he could, but that, "We wouldn't worry about it. We'd just take that case as it is."

The lesson is that even the airline employees frequently have no idea what the hell they're talking about, but when in doubt, ask the people at the counter, because they're at the pointy end, and will actually be making the decision that affects you, unlike the disembodied voice on the phone.


Agree in that.

So I'm going to try it and see what happens. At the worst ill run it out to the wife and am planning 20 extra minutes into my schedule. I'll report back what ends up happening.
  Previous Page
Page:  / 2