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CBR900
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Posted: 9/17/2012 6:09:10 PM
So those who pushed for this sub-forum, can we fill in the details?

-I know that Ohio Ordnance Works (correct?) originally made U.S. receivers;

-CZ-USA at some later point imported Czech-made guns (complete?) but has discontinued

-Century USA also got ahold of guns & undersold CZ-USA (quality?)


Where do these non-AK rifles stand as fas as US availability?
obiwanbonjovi
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Posted: 9/17/2012 7:00:32 PM
There have been 3 suppliers of complete rilfes:
Ohio Ordnance Works VZ2000, built here from like new condition parts kits with original barrels

D-Technik, now known as Czech Small Arms, these have been sold as CZ-USA and Czechpoint-USA rifles. All are made by D-technik, all the same
Built in Czech republic, as single stacks with refurbished original parts, modified here to accept double stack mags and be 922r compliant.

Century VZ2008 Built with new U.S. made barrels and orginal parts kits.

5 suppliers to date of stripped receivers

OOW vz20000

Grand Power (rumored only 100, never seen 3 digit serial) these are single stacks, made to same specs as D-technik, but with different lightening cuts.

Ohio Rapid Fire, now being sold by Assault Weapons of Ohio

D-technik Modified from single stacks, never been avaialbel as single stack though.

century VZ2008 theyh had stripped receivers available for a bit.
Hanz
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Posted: 9/17/2012 9:55:29 PM
Do we know when they first started appearing in the United States?

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671ar
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Posted: 9/18/2012 6:11:29 AM
if memory serves me right, i remember reading that waffern works were the original importers of the vz58 for czechpoint. CZ usa never imported their vz58s, they pretty much got them through CzechPoint at the time and just put their name on it.
burf151
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Posted: 9/20/2012 9:55:10 AM
Originally Posted By Hanz:
Do we know when they first started appearing in the United States?



The first time I saw one, I think was around 2000. I had just seen the ad for the OOW VZ-2000, and there was one at the next gun show (Harrisburg, PA). The seller wanted around $1400 for it! I was in love, but it was many years later that I got my VZ.
CBR900
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Posted: 9/21/2012 2:29:40 PM
Originally Posted By obiwanbonjovi:
There have been 3 suppliers of complete rilfes:
Ohio Ordnance Works VZ2000, built here from like new condition parts kits with original barrels

D-Technik, now known as Czech Small Arms, these have been sold as CZ-USA and Czechpoint-USA rifles. All are made by D-technik, all the same
Built in Czech republic, as single stacks with refurbished original parts, modified here to accept double stack mags and be 922r compliant.

Century VZ2008 Built with new U.S. made barrels and orginal parts kits.

5 suppliers to date of stripped receivers

OOW vz20000

Grand Power (rumored only 100, never seen 3 digit serial) these are single stacks, made to same specs as D-technik, but with different lightening cuts.

Ohio Rapid Fire, now being sold by Assault Weapons of Ohio

D-technik Modified from single stacks, never been avaialbel as single stack though.

century VZ2008 theyh had stripped receivers available for a bit.


Thanks! You provided the following, more complete response in another thread. I appreciate it!



"They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Let me list some pros and cons


D-technik (also Czechpoint, CZ usa, Czech Small Arms)
price $899 from Czechpoint-usa.com with 2 magazines and sling, includes shipping and ffl tranfer fees.

Pros:

Imported from Czech republic, because of this it will retain more collectable value

Beautiful fit and finish throughout

Tabbed bolt carrier( this is a major pro, any vz58 without an autosear(illegal) or a tabbed carrier cannot be considered a reliable weapon)

Original military chf chrome lined barrel

5 year warranty, with excellent customer service

Selector flips forward to fire semi auto (this is preference, but most prefer forward fire)


Cons:

Permanently attached blank muzzle extension (can be replaced with functional muzzle device by decent smith for $75-$150 must also be permanently attached, as barrel is only 15.35")

No bayonet lug (can be replaced at same time as muzzle device expect to pay $200 parts and labor to get this and a functional muzzle device added)

Plastic trigger (never break, but still most folks don't like it) (can be replaced with Bonesteel Arms fcg for $65)

Rifle is built and finished before importing, then the magwell is opened up here. Magwell is touched up with less durable finish than the rest of the rifle.

Requires 2 U.S. parts in every magazine to be 922r compliant, the u.s. parts are plastic and less desireable, and also add expense to magazines(can be remedied by replacing gas piston and muzzle device with u.s. made parts, or by replacing furniture with u.s. made)


Century VZ2008
price $399-$599

Pros:

Least expensive

Has bayonet lug

has 16" threaded barrel, allowing for muzzle device swaps.

Can legally accept surplus magazines.


Cons:

Says Century on it (they have a well deserved bad reputation,but where would we be without them)

Fit and finish is hit or miss, most seem to be very nice, but I have seen some poor examples as well.

Non chrome lined 4140 barrel, offers much shorter service life, especially with corrosive ammo or continuous rapid fire, should still be ample life for most shooters.

Poor warranty and customer service

No tabbed bolt carrier (earlier ones did, but then they stopped, I suspect due to patent infringement. Can be easily rectified, by any decent welder, but must be done to be considered a reliable weapon)

Selector moves rearward to fire (again preference)


Ohio Ordnance Works VZ2000
price $1025 includes both fixed and folding stocks, sling, bayonet, and 4 magazines

Pros:

Beautiful fit and finish IMHO best of the 3

Bayonet lug

Can legally use surplus mags(come with floorplates though? they must count foreign parts differently, likely they count the striker as a hammer)

Original chf chrome lined barrel


Cons:

Least original looking receiver, has different lightning cuts and large billboard writing on the side

Permanently attached blank muzzle extension

No tabbed carrier (can be easily rectified, by any decent welder, but must be done to be considered a reliable weapon)

Selector moves reaward to fire, however the receiver allows both positions, so the selector can easily be modified to fire in either position.



I have no knowledge of OOW customer service or warranty, so cannot comment on that.


671ar
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Posted: 9/21/2012 5:02:36 PM
when i purchased one of the first batches of vz2008 the finish was prettybad, the top cover and lower receiver did not even match. and i have slugged the bore of my vz2008 againts 2 vz58 barrels i currently have
1. original vz58 barrel from my parts kit= .311
2. cz-usa vz58= .311
3. vz2008= .308
and we shoot majority of the time russian ammo which measure about .311-.312
kyron4
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Posted: 9/21/2012 5:13:01 PM
[Last Edit: 9/21/2012 5:51:39 PM by kyron4]
Originally Posted By 671ar:
when i purchased one of the first batches of vz2008 the finish was prettybad, the top cover and lower receiver did not even match. and i have slugged the bore of my vz2008 againts 2 vz58 barrels i currently have
1. original vz58 barrel from my parts kit= .311
2. cz-usa vz58= .311
3. vz2008= .308
and we shoot majority of the time russian ammo which measure about .311-.312


Yah, the .308 bore seems odd but I've never heard of anyone having a problem and there are some folks with thousands of rounds fired.

Edit: I did some research and pulled some WOLF bullets, they measure .3085"-.309" on average, while the Brown Bear ran closer to .310". Reading up on early Ruger Mini-30's with a .308" american made non chrome bore, no one has ever reported a problem fireing .310-.311" bullets. Ruger states any 7.62x39 made to American spec weather .308-.311" is safe to shoot in any Ruger Mini 30 reguardless of bore size being .308" or the newer .311". So while it is odd they went with a .308 bore it seems a non issue.
671ar
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Posted: 9/21/2012 9:56:46 PM
Originally Posted By kyron4:
Originally Posted By 671ar:
when i purchased one of the first batches of vz2008 the finish was prettybad, the top cover and lower receiver did not even match. and i have slugged the bore of my vz2008 againts 2 vz58 barrels i currently have
1. original vz58 barrel from my parts kit= .311
2. cz-usa vz58= .311
3. vz2008= .308
and we shoot majority of the time russian ammo which measure about .311-.312


Yah, the .308 bore seems odd but I've never heard of anyone having a problem and there are some folks with thousands of rounds fired.

Edit: I did some research and pulled some WOLF bullets, they measure .3085"-.309" on average, while the Brown Bear ran closer to .310". Reading up on early Ruger Mini-30's with a .308" american made non chrome bore, no one has ever reported a problem fireing .310-.311" bullets. Ruger states any 7.62x39 made to American spec weather .308-.311" is safe to shoot in any Ruger Mini 30 reguardless of bore size being .308" or the newer .311". So while it is odd they went with a .308 bore it seems a non issue.


yah, i have also pulled bullets a while back when i had my vz2008. ive shot my friends mini 30 shooting wolf no problems. i just thought id post more info for the proud owners of the vz2008. more info the better right?

retgarr
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Posted: 9/22/2012 12:11:48 AM
Originally Posted By 671ar:
Originally Posted By kyron4:
Originally Posted By 671ar:
when i purchased one of the first batches of vz2008 the finish was prettybad, the top cover and lower receiver did not even match. and i have slugged the bore of my vz2008 againts 2 vz58 barrels i currently have
1. original vz58 barrel from my parts kit= .311
2. cz-usa vz58= .311
3. vz2008= .308
and we shoot majority of the time russian ammo which measure about .311-.312


Yah, the .308 bore seems odd but I've never heard of anyone having a problem and there are some folks with thousands of rounds fired.

Edit: I did some research and pulled some WOLF bullets, they measure .3085"-.309" on average, while the Brown Bear ran closer to .310". Reading up on early Ruger Mini-30's with a .308" american made non chrome bore, no one has ever reported a problem fireing .310-.311" bullets. Ruger states any 7.62x39 made to American spec weather .308-.311" is safe to shoot in any Ruger Mini 30 reguardless of bore size being .308" or the newer .311". So while it is odd they went with a .308 bore it seems a non issue.


yah, i have also pulled bullets a while back when i had my vz2008. ive shot my friends mini 30 shooting wolf no problems. i just thought id post more info for the proud owners of the vz2008. more info the better right?



Absolutely. I had no idea the Centuries were .308 diameter. I didn't even know the .310-.311 would work in a .308, maybe a cost saving measure. Wonder what effect it has.
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TacticalPenguin
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Posted: 9/22/2012 12:26:56 AM
were the czech made ones with the longer barrels that were made for Canada not available in the USofA?
retgarr
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Posted: 9/22/2012 1:17:44 AM
[Last Edit: 9/22/2012 1:19:04 AM by retgarr]
Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
were the czech made ones with the longer barrels that were made for Canada not available in the USofA?


No, the VZ858 is a product of your laws in order to place it in the non-restricted category. Our only barrel length law is sbr<16". But they weren't available here probably due to our import restrictions. We have to have a certain number of US made parts to make a rifle with certain features importable.
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TacticalPenguin
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Posted: 9/23/2012 12:07:37 PM
thank you for that, I sure wish they had taken the extra step to chrome our longer barrels
retgarr
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Posted: 9/23/2012 5:15:14 PM
Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:
thank you for that, I sure wish they had taken the extra step to chrome our longer barrels


The problem is that in your country many people just see it as a surrogate for the AK and just want it cheap. Kind of like how Century is doing things here. I appreciate that they are making the rifle more popular, bu I like the VZ58 because it is a fine rifle.
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TacticalPenguin
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Posted: 9/23/2012 7:27:37 PM
I like it for the action type, having fired alot of AKs including "fun" ones I find that they have too much trigger slap, same with the SKS rifles, the VZs seem to not have any for me. And being able to hunt with one is a plus (our non restricted that is, restricted are obviouslu a no-no)

Has anyone had any problems being able to remove the cover for disassembly on the CZ made ones?
retgarr
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Posted: 9/23/2012 8:16:32 PM
Ive found my home build can be fidgety. Just gotta wiggle it.
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