sold my AK, life happened now I want another one. The purpose would be a truck, oh shit, fight my way home gun. I live in a semi rural area but work and commute through a progressive utopian city ( high threat)  So I am looking at something I can keep in my truck to compliment my CC. Again this is a progressive city so infrastructure is not maintained, and traffic is slow on a good day, so having to move out on foot is a possibility.

That makes a Pistol variant attractive.

Budget is 800US

What should I avoid? is Draco as bad as I have been reading?

Are  any unique circumstances with mounting a red dot on an AK pistol? ( I already have an aimpoint)

How difficult is it to mount a shock wave brace on an AK pistol?

thanks in advance

I have a C39 pistol with a SB47 Sig Brace. It also has a Burris FastFire 3 red dot in an Antero Arms mount (with a really fucking sturdy protective hood surrounding the red dot). This pistol occasionally serves as a truck gun for me.




ETA: Antero Arms also makes a mount for an Aimpoint T-1H-1. if that's what you have. Their mounts are stout.
Also, I've had no issues with the C39. I have approx 500 rounds through it, so it's not a high round count.
As for mounting a Shockwave, I have numerous Shockwaves on my AR pistols, but for the AK pistol I prefer the SB-47. Yes, it's heaver, but that's also the point. An AK pistol weighs a lot more than an AR pistol, and I wanted a heavier brace to help move the balance point rearward.

M92 Pap, $550 locally, on armslist, Facebook gun traders, Etc

I'll defer on mounting a red dot

Stormwerkz hinge and shockwave blade

Had a Draco for a while. Great gun, but someone HAD to have it after Sandy Hook, so I doubled my $. But to me it wasn't short enough. Now I have a Micro Draco, & I won't sell it no matter how much someone else wants it. Draco's are 100% made in a Romanian AK factory, with 100% Romanian parts. No 922 regs for pistols. GARY

This is good info.

I have a M92 and a Draco. I prefer the Draco for most things, but the M92 is slightly lighter and a bit shorter. Draco is easier to come by parts for and easier to use. If you get an M92, the Stormworkz hinge and angle adapter plate with the Shockwave are the ways to go. I really like the TWS with a micro dot for optics. With the TWS you can get a Kel-Tec SU-16B rear peep sight that will give you a very long sight radius and greatly increase the shootablilty and accuracy of either gun. In fact, on the Draco the sight radius is about 4" longer than a standard M4.

With the folding hinge, I can fit both guns in a regular tennis racket bag or medium size backpack. Depending on the bag, I usually don't have to fold the hinge. I also recommend a very short brake like the SLR, Manticore Nightbrake (best), or similar to keep things short. A long brake or flashhider pushes the length a bit to far out of the smaller bags.

With your budget I would go for the Yugo M85. It shoots the 556 and is mild recoil.

Check out the AK pistol pic. thread.
My Mini Draco is in there along with many others.

Mine has been 100% reliable.
Mounted the Blade brace on a folding hinge.
It's loud and makes a fireball, but it's a formidable weapon.
With the Blade folded, it fits in a cheap briefcase with 3 mags.

I got the Stormwerkz hinge. If I was doing it again, I'd pay a professional to drill the holes, but it worked out OK.
Couple of ways to mount a reddot.
There is a company that makes a railed forearm that the dot would mount on, or you could replace your top cover with the railed one and stick one on there.

Again, check out the picture thread.
Lots of good ideas in there.

thanks guys

I have a Century Arms PAP M85 with the brace. It was a novelty when I first got it, but I like to use my guns even on a weekly basis. I found myself leaving it in the safe in favor of full AK's for shooting steel and paper. This thing is loud, even with ears double protected so if you ever had to use this pistol in a situation you'd prob be deaf. :) This is all my opinion and your use case sounds like you want a truck gun, and it would fit the bill perfectly. Very reliable so far for me, and I have no complaints.

The M85 uses AR mags which I have an abundance of, but the 7.62 would have more sting out of the short barrel since velocities take a huge hit. I've been thinking of removing the brace and installing a pistol grip, further reducing the OAL.
Bruce

Well, that's confusing. It doesn't have a pistol grip now? Or you want two pistol grips? Or what?


- OS

Assuming he wants to just remove the brace and go with just the pistol grip, or replace the factory grip with aftermarket.

I've waffled back n forth on my SB47 brace as well, it's got a nice cheek weld and is definitely more accurate beyond 25 yards than nothing but I have a WASR with a folding stock that already fills that role. Without the brace and with no muzzle device it makes for a pretty short overall package. The Shockwave & folder is a better compromise between the two.

Hah.  I'd bet we both work in the same progressive utopian city.  I got a Draco and installed a Shockwave brace on a folder for exactly the same reasons you are thinking about.
It is far-and-away my favorite gun.  I really love that little guy.  It is quite a bit heavier than a comparable AR pistol would be, especially with extra mags.  It's also more durable and way cooler looking.

Anyway, to answer your questions


That will be tough if you want a brace and a good mount for your red dot.  Especially if you order the gun online and have to pay shipping, transfer, and our lovely WA "use" tax.
You'll probably need to keep the gun pretty stock and maybe skip a folding mechanism.


I don't know what you're reading.   I have a PAP and a Draco.  The PAP looks nicer and feels more solid, but they have both been 100% on reliability.  The Draco has a slightly longer barrel (which I like) and you can use more standard parts with it (I love the Magpul furniture).  I do like the iron sights and the top cover on the PAP better.


A lot of people mount them on gas tube mounts, which puts it pretty far forward, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Gas tube mounts are pretty easy to install, usually very solid, but kinda pricey in my opinion.  They also get super hot.
You can get mounts that replace the rear sight leaf.  I like that style, but some don't.
There are also top-cover replacements.  Some are good quality, but cost a lot.  Some cost less and are pretty much garbage.
The top cover on a PAP is a little more solid due to the hinge and you can mount a red dot there with more stability, if you are willing to drill and tap a couple holes.  A lower 1/3 co-witnesses is usually best you can do (not a big deal) and cheaper mounts won't even get you that.


I would recommend a drill press, some good taps (with plenty of cutting oil),  and a lot of patience if you are planning on doing the work yourself on a Draco.  The steel on the rear trunion is insanely hard.  Seriously, it would be really easy to break a tap off in there.
I started trying to drill with a hand drill and quickly realized my folly.  My cheap drill press made short work of it though.
I don't know about other pistols, but I assume it's similar.  The Yugo PAPs need a shim if you want the brace to line up in a straight line with the rest of the gun.  Once the rear trunion is drilled and tapped, the rest is cake.  There are ways to mount stuff without drilling the trunion, but I've never tried them as they look flimsy to my eye.

You can browse the parts for these guns on CNC Warrior, Stormwerkz, and Manticore Arms.

Lots of great stuff. Just be careful, or the Good Idea Fairy will get into your head and make you spend a lot more money than may have been practical or intended.

ETA: My vote goes to the PAP guns rather than the Dracos, just because I've been more impressed with Serbian guns vs Romanian. Fit and finish mainly. Also, could claim the aftermarket for the PAPs is more than strong enough, and the products for them can AR15 them up pretty easily. I would expect to do less fitting for parts for PAPs than the Dracos.

Grab the M92 PAP pistol! built like a tank and very accurate! Got mine set up with an Ultimak gas tube and an Aimpoint ACO mounted in a Bobro Ultra low mount. Oh and no brace for me, attached a 2 point Magpul sling and just pull it in tight and fire away! I have no problems at 100 yards but it does help having an Aimpoint.

I have a Draco with a folding shockwave brace and a Blue Force AK sling. Basic, but very handy little gun.

How's the muzzle flash on the micro Draco?

 

Not bad. But I removed the flash hider that came with it, & put on a muzzle nut from an old style milled gun.  GARY
http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-040.html

I have a Draco C.  Hard to find new but you can get a used one for $500-550 locally... costs go up with brace, muzzle device etc.  Good truck gun for me.

After putting a brace on it and turning it into an AK SBR I couldn't help but compare it to my carbine length ARs.  Here are my thoughts:

I have a C39 pistol with the SB47 brace....its been a pretty reliable gun. I think I had maybe 2 FTF's in the first 500 rounds but after that its been a typewriter. Other then wanting to put a shockwave on it I'm happy with it.

All in all it seems just about all of the main stream AK pistols are pretty good.....just a matter of preference on slightly different styles. I think youll be good with any of the pistols that have been brought up!

Good luck with your choice and happy shooting!
Rich

Nutnfancy has a comparison video between the zestava and a CAI draco on youtube.

Good informative video. Between an AK bullpup and Draco Micro with a brace, I can see an advantage in having a folding brace and a bit of weight savings as well.

It belches a fireball at night if you don't have a muzzle device.

Always buy a comblock (Draco, M92) before you consider American (Century) when it comes to AKs.

Have you considered a rifle with a folding stock!  Less noise, more veocity and not much heavier than a M92

FYI I've never had to buy or expect to buy spare parts for any Akm ever except maybe springs
Don't get a 223 pistol that's one of my biggest regrets I bought a Arsenal pistol when they first had the preorder at kvar for them
Have fun

223 was a regret because of the velocity loss in a short barrel?

Hell no I can live with less velocity.  I just didn't expect a cuncusion gernade and a garenteed headache every time I shoot it haha
Also mine doesn't feed soft points so well

However If your at the range and want to emptee all the tables adjacent to yours or set off all the car alarms in the parking lot then this is the gun for you

I have the NPAP M85 with a Midwest Industries rail, primary arms red dot, and shockwave blade mount from US Machine Gun.  It has been waiting on a stamp for the last 7 months now, but I have been having a lot of fun with it as a pistol.  Runs like a champ with my USGI aluminum mags as well as my Lancers.

People come over from other lanes at the range to see what in the hell is going off.  Loud and fireball doesn't even begin to describe it.  

I went with the Zastava M92 with the intention of SBRing it.. several places offer muzzle devices that you can pin/weld to bring the length legal and add a real folding stock while you wait for the stamp.. I've tried the different pistol braces and just not a fan.. Looks like the M92 now has the serial number at the front of the receiver so you could turn it in to an under folder if you want. Atlantic has them on sale for $529 right now, would leave you extra money for accessories/mags/ammo..

My Draco w/ 12" barrel and no device makes fireballs with just about every type of ammo. But my 7.62x39 AR pistol w/ 10" barrel and A2 flashider has none.

The slant brake and Tapco slotted both direct the fireball up, making it more visible to the shooter.

With an SB47 brace it's not much shorter than my WASR when folded. But a lot cheaper, the Draco + brace was $600 new, I paid more than that for the WASR plus $150 for a folding stock.

A pistol is easier to keep in a vehicle if you're crossing state lines.

I've shot 7.62x39 out of a 7" barrel and it's a lot of concussion in your face. I'd have to have some kind of linear comp.

One big advantage to a mini or micro AK pistol without a brace is a very short overall length, easier to stick in a backpack or wield in a vehicle.
For me, I have trouble shooting beyond 25 yards with a two handed pistol and no brace. With no brace on my Scorpion 9mm pistol I was shooting 4 to 6" groups, with a Shockwave I can consistently do 1" groups.