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Posted: 9/16/2014 8:00:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Biggest difference is probably the $200 stamp.
We'll see over time which version holds up the best: those with braces, vs. those that drilled into their receivers. |
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Posted: 9/16/2014 9:44:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Is the pistol version as accurate as the ones that are made from a kit or cut down from a full size AK?
Can you add a red dot to the Pistol version without using that side rail that comes on all of them? It seems to me that if you weren't a really picky AK guy and wanted an SBR, the BEST and most economical choice would be the AK Pistol with the Brace and then apply for the stamp and add a folder to it later. I had never considered getting a SBR AK, but now that I see that I could simply get an AK Pistol and use that Brace for a while and have a total of maybe $500 in it, it looks like a good option for those out there like me. Yeah or Nay? Thanks for your time. Nalajr |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 7:35:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Why waste the money on a brace if you can get a Form 1 back in under 30 days? You're better off putting that $125 towards the stamp if you're going that route anyway, so you're not left with a brace you're not going to use very long.
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:08:47 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:21:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Mechanically... one has a stock, the other does not, so SBR>Pistol without a doubt
Legally it's different, and I'm all for pistol braces for a few reasons #1, it's cheaper overall: a AK pistol brace at its most expensive is $144, where as the stamp tax alone is $200, not including all the other parts you need to install, or if you need a builder to do the work for you, so if you're into penny crunching, it's better #2, I travel, A LOT, and if I want to bring my SBR from state to state I have to get permission from the ATF to do so, which is a pain in the ass, and I wish the ATF would put the damn 5320.20's on their eforms website, in contrast the brace does not change the classification of the pistol, so you don't have to worry about going state to state without permission (as long as the firearm is legal in that state) #3, You don't have to register it with the ATF, that right there is a huge selling point for some people |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 10:40:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#2, I travel, A LOT, and if I want to bring my SBR from state to state I have to get permission from the ATF to do so, which is a pain in the ass As soon as your SBR is approved, you fill out a form 20 for each state to which you're likely to travel, and submit. Doesn't take long for approval, and it's good for a year from the date on the form. Some folks is lazier than others though, and tend to spend more time complaining about the forms than it would take to fill them out and send. 
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Posted: 9/17/2014 11:12:34 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As soon as your SBR is approved, you fill out a form 20 for each state to which you're likely to travel, and submit. Doesn't take long for approval, and it's good for a year from the date on the form. Some folks is lazier than others though, and tend to spend more time complaining about the forms than it would take to fill them out and send. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
#2, I travel, A LOT, and if I want to bring my SBR from state to state I have to get permission from the ATF to do so, which is a pain in the ass As soon as your SBR is approved, you fill out a form 20 for each state to which you're likely to travel, and submit. Doesn't take long for approval, and it's good for a year from the date on the form. Some folks is lazier than others though, and tend to spend more time complaining about the forms than it would take to fill them out and send. That's much easier said than done, when you get told you're going to move to a location inside of the next month, you have to jump through hoops, especially when you are moving from one permanent address to another and have to specify how it's being moved, you might as well fill out a form with all 50 states and send it in every year some complain about the forms because they're unconstitutional and are very inconvenient
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Posted: 9/17/2014 12:23:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Maybe you missed the tank under my avatar. It means I'm no stranger to short notice pcs and tdy. All you have to do is send it in with a copy of the orders and a request to please expedite. Takes less than a week.
If it's unconstitutional you should file a civil rights suit. Or is complaining on the internet easier? 
Regardless of how you may feel, it's the current law. You either abide by it and campaign to get it changed, or you whine about how unfair it is on the internet. One of those choices allows you to have the toys. The other......well......doesn't.
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Posted: 9/17/2014 2:29:31 PM EDT
[#9]
So you're telling me it's easier to just cross state lines whenever you want with a SBR than with an Arm Brace? Because that's the point I'm making
Ya I saw your cute little tank under your avatar and I'm glad you know the system well, but based on my experiences moving around quite a bit, I'd rather not have to worry about filling out paperwork and just be able to pick up my shit and go
ya, I'll quit my internet whining now
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Posted: 9/17/2014 2:52:21 PM EDT
[#10]
With the pistol, you can let a friend take it to the range without you being there like the requirement on a form 1
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:06:37 PM EDT
[#11]
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So you're telling me it's easier to just cross state lines whenever you want with a SBR than with an Arm Brace? Because that's the point I'm making Depending on the state, yes. Some states have completely banned AK and AR based pistols. Just because it's not NFA doesn't even come CLOSE to making it 50-state legal. You're far more protected with an approved form 20 for an NFA item than just rolling across the line and hoping. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:07:51 PM EDT
[#12]
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With the pistol, you can let a friend take it to the range without you being there like the requirement on a form 1 The only friends I'd let handle my firearms without my presence are already on my trust. So they already CAN take my nfa stuff to the range. Next "drawback"? |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:28:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depending on the state, yes. Some states have completely banned AK and AR based pistols. Just because it's not NFA doesn't even come CLOSE to making it 50-state legal. You're far more protected with an approved form 20 for an NFA item than just rolling across the line and hoping. but not every state allows SBR either, really I'm thinking about a "I have 2 days until ____ happens and I need to bring my shit with", of course that's a very very rare occasion but for that tiny possibility it makes it easier than doing an inverted bacflip through one's anus to get something approved that won't be mailed back in time Again when sticks with me about the paperwork approval is when I was in Alaska, it took 2 weeks for forms to be mailed back to me |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:30:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Thank you all for the help and suggestions....
I don't want you all to think that I didn't know the actual difference in the AK Pistol and the SBR. I know the SBR has to have a stock and a $200 stamp. I was merely trying to find out if they are pretty much the same thing other than the stock and the brace that each use. Aside from those 2 items, they look and seem to be very similar, if not identical. The point about the brace costing almost as much as the stamp is something I had not thought about. It would make sense to go ahead and get the form approval if you were going to spend that much on the brace...which I guess you'd have to if you were going to get one. Lastly, it seems that the most economical way to go is the pistol. They can be bought right now for $525 or so, give or take a few bucks. That ain't close to what you'd have to put out to get it the other way by building up a kit or cutting down and modding your rifle. You'd likely spend as much doing that as getting a pistol + brace + approval + stock and having some left for ammo and mags..... Thanks all Nalajr |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 3:33:09 PM EDT
[#15]
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Next "drawback"? Registration wait times Costs more not as easy to buy/sell have to engrave the receiver (is that a drawback? idk, some people would rather not, w/e) -these are just a few to think about |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 4:10:46 PM EDT
[#16]
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Registration If you own any gun not homemade or passed down/inherited, you're already "on the list". wait times eform1 is down to a few weeks. Patience is a virtue. Costs more cointing the stamp, I'm into my m92 sbr with original miltary barrel for the same as a pistol with brace. not as easy to buy/sell it's no different than any other firearm. Only one added step of waiting for a form to clear. If waiting is difficult, you should find a new hobby. have to engrave the receiver (is that a drawback? idk, some people would rather not, w/e) do you realize how small the requirement is? 1/16" high. That's fucking tiny. -these are just a few to think about Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Next "drawback"? Registration If you own any gun not homemade or passed down/inherited, you're already "on the list". wait times eform1 is down to a few weeks. Patience is a virtue. Costs more cointing the stamp, I'm into my m92 sbr with original miltary barrel for the same as a pistol with brace. not as easy to buy/sell it's no different than any other firearm. Only one added step of waiting for a form to clear. If waiting is difficult, you should find a new hobby. have to engrave the receiver (is that a drawback? idk, some people would rather not, w/e) do you realize how small the requirement is? 1/16" high. That's fucking tiny. -these are just a few to think about Answers in red. |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 4:43:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Answers in red. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Next "drawback"? Registration If you own any gun not homemade or passed down/inherited, you're already "on the list". explain "on the list", and again others think it's unconstitutional, so if you're in that boat and don't want to register with the NFA, then the arm brace is an option wait times eform1 is down to a few weeks. Patience is a virtue. for some, others would like to skip that system totally Costs more cointing the stamp, I'm into my m92 sbr with original miltary barrel for the same as a pistol with brace. If you were lucky enough to grab a kit when they were cheap, then ya I can kind of see how that works, but in terms of what's available now, $200 before parts vs. $125 one time fee, it's not cheaper not as easy to buy/sell it's no different than any other firearm. Only one added step of waiting for a form to clear. If waiting is difficult, you should find a new hobby. see answer for wait times have to engrave the receiver (is that a drawback? idk, some people would rather not, w/e) do you realize how small the requirement is? 1/16" high. That's fucking tiny. it's still engraved with personal info if it's a form 1, and some people think that's very stupid -these are just a few to think about Answers in red. replies in blue, and I'm not seeing really anything that's convincing about SBR's being easier to deal with than arm braces |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 4:49:09 PM EDT
[#18]
My rifles are engraved with trust info. Not mine.
The list comment was in reply to all the people worried they're on some super secret tinfoil government "nfa owner" list. If you think a firearm being on the nfa registry has you on some sort of list, it's no different than just being a gun owner. Your name is already somewhere, if yiu believe in that ridiculous horseshit. 
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Posted: 9/17/2014 4:58:51 PM EDT
[#19]
For my Krinkov SBR I went all out, and I love it, don't get me wrong, I love the SBR and I am good with the process, however having an AK pistol with an arm brace is just fucking awesome, I can swap out the one arm brace I spent $125 on between two AK pistols that I didn't have to register, and that saved me at minimum $400 not SBRing both those pistols, not to mention purchasing more parts
bottom line, for me the Arm Brace functions just as well as a buttstock, so why pay more and fill more paperwork out for something that does the same thing? Again, because I wanted it authentic, I turned my '86 Tula kit into a SBR, but for purely fun shooting I go to the Arm Brace to each their own |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 5:00:46 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My rifles are engraved with trust info. Not mine. Question on that, I haven't been up to speed completely but are they closing the "trust loophole" now or what's the deal there? Because if that does happen it will have to have your name on it |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 5:10:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Question on that, I haven't been up to speed completely but are they closing the "trust loophole" now or what's the deal there? Because if that does happen it will have to have your name on it Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My rifles are engraved with trust info. Not mine. Question on that, I haven't been up to speed completely but are they closing the "trust loophole" now or what's the deal there? Because if that does happen it will have to have your name on it |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 5:18:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Question on that, I haven't been up to speed completely but are they closing the "trust loophole" now or what's the deal there? Because if that does happen it will have to have your name on it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My rifles are engraved with trust info. Not mine. Question on that, I haven't been up to speed completely but are they closing the "trust loophole" now or what's the deal there? Because if that does happen it will have to have your name on it 1. There's no such thing as a "trust loophole". 2. The firearm is already on the NFA registry. The info on it doesn't change if it's sold or transferred. Transferable machine guns didn't have to have different information engraved after the 86 ban. Who told you personal information would have to be engraved on something originally created on a form 1 by a trust? Cite your source. As for the whole "personal information" chicken little crap going around, there's far easier ways to find out EVERYTHING about you without having to find a gun you put your name and city on.... |
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Posted: 9/17/2014 5:34:27 PM EDT
[#23]
ATF states you need to put your name/town on the receiver if you aren't doing a trust, that's personal information, but really, ya it's pointless, I know there's people out there that don't want to do that, whatever....
ya, I know it's easy to hack into people's lives and what not, I deal with that daily.. Jesus we're off topic, sorry I brought that up it's stupid But back to my bottom line, For collecting purposes I have my AKS-74u Krinkov SBR, and for fun shooting I have two AK pistols that share an arm brace, because the arm brace works as well as a stock |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 12:39:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you missed the tank under my avatar. It means I'm no stranger to short notice pcs and tdy. All you have to do is send it in with a copy of the orders and a request to please expedite. Takes less than a week. If it's unconstitutional you should file a civil rights suit. Or is complaining on the internet easier?
Regardless of how you may feel, it's the current law. You either abide by it and campaign to get it changed, or you whine about how unfair it is on the internet. One of those choices allows you to have the toys. The other......well......doesn't. Or you can just put a pistol Brace on it and shoot it just like you would an SBR... not worry about the whole mess. |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 12:49:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you can just put a pistol Brace on it and shoot it just like you would an SBR... not worry about the whole mess. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe you missed the tank under my avatar. It means I'm no stranger to short notice pcs and tdy. All you have to do is send it in with a copy of the orders and a request to please expedite. Takes less than a week. If it's unconstitutional you should file a civil rights suit. Or is complaining on the internet easier?
Regardless of how you may feel, it's the current law. You either abide by it and campaign to get it changed, or you whine about how unfair it is on the internet. One of those choices allows you to have the toys. The other......well......doesn't. Or you can just put a pistol Brace on it and shoot it just like you would an SBR... not worry about the whole mess. Oh I have a brace. But it looks incredibly incorrect on an ak...so I keep it on an ar lower.
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:02:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My rifles are engraved with trust info. Not mine. The list comment was in reply to all the people worried they're on some super secret tinfoil government "nfa owner" list. If you think a firearm being on the nfa registry has you on some sort of list, it's no different than just being a gun owner. Your name is already somewhere, if yiu believe in that ridiculous horseshit. Sounds like you are ideologically opposed to the pistol brace concept... married to ATF approved system because you are already fully invested in it. to SBR a pistol you have to send off $200 plus the cost of a trust $100 ( if your local LEO wont sign off). Now you have to take/ send the pistol off to be engraved for another $80... now you get to buy the hardware for your weapon ...put it at $200 and if you pay to have it installed... another $200. lets say that is the worst case scenario for the SBR... you are already at the $800 dollar mark and you havent even included the price of the pistol. For the Pistol version... tube kit $50... stock adapter /folder adapter $99.....Sigbrace $105. Easy , solid functional DIY installation....$0.00.... $250 total and you never have to fill out another form again. Plus it is a pistol... so states that have banned SBR's... you can take it there too. Logistically the Pitol Brace wins hands down... no contest. The SBR has a marginal advantagein function due solely to the fact that it is easily adjustable.... Thats it. That is what you are paying over $500 extra for |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:09:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I have a brace. But it looks incredibly incorrect on an ak...so I keep it on an ar lower. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe you missed the tank under my avatar. It means I'm no stranger to short notice pcs and tdy. All you have to do is send it in with a copy of the orders and a request to please expedite. Takes less than a week. If it's unconstitutional you should file a civil rights suit. Or is complaining on the internet easier?
Regardless of how you may feel, it's the current law. You either abide by it and campaign to get it changed, or you whine about how unfair it is on the internet. One of those choices allows you to have the toys. The other......well......doesn't. Or you can just put a pistol Brace on it and shoot it just like you would an SBR... not worry about the whole mess. Oh I have a brace. But it looks incredibly incorrect on an ak...so I keep it on an ar lower. I have one on an AR also.. These things are tools to me. Once i am shooting them I cant see them, so aesthetics are far down on the list of priorities. If its solid reliable, comfortable and effective to shoot... plus inexpensive, that will be my choice. Pretty much the whole reason i like AK variants in the first place. |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:16:35 PM EDT
[#28]
I didn't send off my stuff to anyone for engraving. 1/16" high, .003" minimum. Easily accomplished with a friend's cnc mill. Local trophy shops can do it too for about 10-15 bucks.
I'm not "married" to, or invested in, any "system". I wanted SBRs so I followed the law in place regarding them....without letting my feelings about said laws get in the way. And I built them myself. Stamps jncluded, I'm around 1500 for both AK SBRs. I'm no more a fan of it than anyone else, but the longer one waits to get into the game, the more it'll cost and the longer the wait will be.
Not to mention, if they DO change the rules about trusts, at least my stuff is already done. I'm sure there will be plenty of complaining by those who weren't willing to do the legwork now, but rather chose to complain about it on the internet. Time will tell....during which I'll be headed to TX to hunt with my suppressed SBRs.
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:34:48 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't send off my stuff to anyone for engraving. 1/16" high, .003" minimum. Easily accomplished with a friend's cnc mill. Local trophy shops can do it too for about 10-15 bucks. I'm not "married" to, or invested in, any "system". I wanted SBRs so I followed the law in place regarding them....without letting my feelings about said laws get in the way. And I built them myself. Stamps jncluded, I'm around 1500 for both AK SBRs. I'm no more a fan of it than anyone else, but the longer one waits to get into the game, the more it'll cost and the longer the wait will be.
Not to mention, if they DO change the rules about trusts, at least my stuff is already done. I'm sure there will be plenty of complaining by those who weren't willing to do the legwork now, but rather chose to complain about it on the internet. Time will tell....during which I'll be headed to TX to hunt with my suppressed SBRs. I "built" my M92 PAP for about $720 RTG in less than 1 hour... no waiting.. except for mail. Very solid build since the guys at Zastava did most of the work . To SBR it would have cost me about $1k including the pistol ...if I did the hardware install myself.
Nobody is going to engrave your gun for 15 bucks. The trophy shops will engrave a plate for 15 bucks... not a Rifle. The man hour in set-up alone will wipe out any profit they could have gained from a simple engraving job and they will charge accordingly if they take the job at all. I'll venture to say that less than 1% of the people who are thinking of having their SBR engraved have a "friend with CNC equipment" so that shouldnt be any part of a general evalution. It may be a big part of your personal evalutaion... but to the average guy asking about the the Pro's and Cons of the SBR vs pistol w/brace "friend with CNC equipment" is irrelevant. I wanted an SBR and a suppressor.. I also followed the law objectively and have both at my disposal. I also own an AR with a pistol grip and an M92 PAP with a pistol brace, my personal experience they operate almost identically save that the SBR is easier to adjust LOP. As long as the ATF does not outlaw Braces... I will never get another SBR stamp. My reasons are based on cost, performance and logistics. 
Dependable, Plain, simple, inexpensive.... pistol rules and laws |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:36:35 PM EDT
[#30]
get ak pistol and efileform 1 it, tax stamp $200, sig brace $140,
if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. form ones are coming in sub 30days then youll have an sbr, and whenever in the future you want to buy an ak pistol they will be availble. when you decide you want to sbr you ak pistol, or if the atf decides to add pistol braces to the atf roster, you wont have to wait 9months to shoot your baby again. im probably going to sbs a 870, 
i may pickup a sk and sbr it, just for the fun of it. 
thinking about getting a kriss vector.. 
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Posted: 9/20/2014 1:50:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
get ak pistol and efileform 1 it, tax stamp $200, sig brace $140, if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. form ones are coming in sub 30days then youll have an sbr, and whenever in the future you want to buy an ak pistol they will be availble. when you decide you want to sbr you ak pistol, or if the atf decides to add pistol braces to the atf roster, you wont have to wait 9months to shoot your baby again. im probably going to sbs a 870,
i may pickup a sk and sbr it, just for the fun of it.
thinking about getting a kriss vector.. If they do.... BIG IF .. place pistol braces on the NFA list. You wont have to wait any longer to shoot your "pistol" than you would an SBR. 30 days to SBR either way. You are still out the same amount of money...plus you can still shoot your pistol as a pistol. i am not against SBR's. I have one but the advantages over a pistol with the brace are negligible. |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#32]
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If they do.... BIG IF .. place pistol braces on the NFA list. You wont have to wait any longer to shoot your "pistol" than you would an SBR. 30 days to SBR either way. You are still out the same amount of money...plus you can still shoot your pistol as a pistol. i am not against SBR's. I have one but the advantages over a pistol with the brace are negligible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
get ak pistol and efileform 1 it, tax stamp $200, sig brace $140, if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. form ones are coming in sub 30days then youll have an sbr, and whenever in the future you want to buy an ak pistol they will be availble. when you decide you want to sbr you ak pistol, or if the atf decides to add pistol braces to the atf roster, you wont have to wait 9months to shoot your baby again. im probably going to sbs a 870,
i may pickup a sk and sbr it, just for the fun of it.
thinking about getting a kriss vector.. If they do.... BIG IF .. place pistol braces on the NFA list. You wont have to wait any longer to shoot your "pistol" than you would an SBR. 30 days to SBR either way. You are still out the same amount of money...plus you can still shoot your pistol as a pistol. i am not against SBR's. I have one but the advantages over a pistol with the brace are negligible. "when" is the major factor.. if they do it when efile is back up to 9month+ wait time, he will have to wait. if its sbr'ed already, then no worries about none of that noise, and hell always be good to go. i find a stock much more comfortable and pleasant than a brace, being able to adjust length and being able to change to other stocks more than a negligible difference. |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 3:00:04 PM EDT
[#33]
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"when" is the major factor.. if they do it when efile is back up to 9month+ wait time, he will have to wait. if its sbr'ed already, then no worries about none of that noise, and hell always be good to go. i find a stock much more comfortable and pleasant than a brace, being able to adjust length and being able to change to other stocks more than a negligible difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
get ak pistol and efileform 1 it, tax stamp $200, sig brace $140, if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. form ones are coming in sub 30days then youll have an sbr, and whenever in the future you want to buy an ak pistol they will be availble. when you decide you want to sbr you ak pistol, or if the atf decides to add pistol braces to the atf roster, you wont have to wait 9months to shoot your baby again. im probably going to sbs a 870,
i may pickup a sk and sbr it, just for the fun of it.
thinking about getting a kriss vector.. If they do.... BIG IF .. place pistol braces on the NFA list. You wont have to wait any longer to shoot your "pistol" than you would an SBR. 30 days to SBR either way. You are still out the same amount of money...plus you can still shoot your pistol as a pistol. i am not against SBR's. I have one but the advantages over a pistol with the brace are negligible. "when" is the major factor.. if they do it when efile is back up to 9month+ wait time, he will have to wait. if its sbr'ed already, then no worries about none of that noise, and hell always be good to go. i find a stock much more comfortable and pleasant than a brace, being able to adjust length and being able to change to other stocks more than a negligible difference. With all due respect to you. You cant say "when" is a factor in deciding if you cant offer any proof to validate your claim as a factor in SBR vs Pistol Brace. Efile went down for months effectively making it a 9 month wait again... they didnt ban the brace and all your requirements were there for manifestation of your prediction. The scenario you offer as an advantage seems to depend on more than one "IF". My experience with the Brace vs SBR in ergonomics directly conflicts yours. I find the cheek weld to mimic the Magpul STR stock, very similar profile at the cheek-weld area... except that the SIG Brace is softer. The only time I adjust LOP is going from Prone to standing... and that is only when I use Irons.. with an RDS I never adjust it once it is set. Adjustability is nice... not $400 dollars more nice though 
Shouldering a Handgun with a Sig SB15 Brace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMLO18kl98 |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 3:47:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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With all due respect to you. You cant say "when" is a factor in deciding if you cant offer any proof to validate your claim as a factor in SBR vs Pistol Brace. Efile went down for months effectively making it a 9 month wait again... they didnt ban the brace and all your requirements were there for manifestation of your prediction. The scenario you offer as an advantage seems to depend on more than one "IF". My experience with the Brace vs SBR in ergonomics directly conflicts yours. I find the cheek weld to mimic the Magpul STR stock, very similar profile at the cheek-weld area... except that the SIG Brace is softer. The only time I adjust LOP is going from Prone to standing... and that is only when I use Irons.. with an RDS I never adjust it once it is set. Adjustability is nice... not $400 dollars more nice though https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTK3bF-zXWbCrsodJDN1PvU0nwG7JihBCObs9ykX4TsU7msevti http://www.calegalmags.com/assets/images/sigbrace3.jpg Shouldering a Handgun with a Sig SB15 Brace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMLO18kl98 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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get ak pistol and efileform 1 it, tax stamp $200, sig brace $140, if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. form ones are coming in sub 30days then youll have an sbr, and whenever in the future you want to buy an ak pistol they will be availble. when you decide you want to sbr you ak pistol, or if the atf decides to add pistol braces to the atf roster, you wont have to wait 9months to shoot your baby again. im probably going to sbs a 870,
i may pickup a sk and sbr it, just for the fun of it.
thinking about getting a kriss vector.. If they do.... BIG IF .. place pistol braces on the NFA list. You wont have to wait any longer to shoot your "pistol" than you would an SBR. 30 days to SBR either way. You are still out the same amount of money...plus you can still shoot your pistol as a pistol. i am not against SBR's. I have one but the advantages over a pistol with the brace are negligible. "when" is the major factor.. if they do it when efile is back up to 9month+ wait time, he will have to wait. if its sbr'ed already, then no worries about none of that noise, and hell always be good to go. i find a stock much more comfortable and pleasant than a brace, being able to adjust length and being able to change to other stocks more than a negligible difference. With all due respect to you. You cant say "when" is a factor in deciding if you cant offer any proof to validate your claim as a factor in SBR vs Pistol Brace. Efile went down for months effectively making it a 9 month wait again... they didnt ban the brace and all your requirements were there for manifestation of your prediction. The scenario you offer as an advantage seems to depend on more than one "IF". My experience with the Brace vs SBR in ergonomics directly conflicts yours. I find the cheek weld to mimic the Magpul STR stock, very similar profile at the cheek-weld area... except that the SIG Brace is softer. The only time I adjust LOP is going from Prone to standing... and that is only when I use Irons.. with an RDS I never adjust it once it is set. Adjustability is nice... not $400 dollars more nice though https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTK3bF-zXWbCrsodJDN1PvU0nwG7JihBCObs9ykX4TsU7msevti http://www.calegalmags.com/assets/images/sigbrace3.jpg Shouldering a Handgun with a Sig SB15 Brace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMLO18kl98 when i stated when, it was not to state that it is a prediction that they will... i meant it in the way that "IF" (which had been stated by you in the comment before mine) they added it to the list, he would only have to wait 30days for it to go through, that statement is incorrect, since "when" he submits the form 1 will be the deciding factor. because if the wait time jumps back 9months next year and the atf decides that arm-braces are nfa, then he has a long time to wait. its best to get it over with now and have no worries. as far as your experience goes, is the fact that it is yours, which is irrelevant since you are not the end user, if OP doesn't like cheek welds or decides there are time when he wants to adjust stocks for something else, or if he feels like the simple look of the arm-brace is annoying he will want to change it. So simply why the SBR route will be a better option. |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 4:12:12 PM EDT
[#35]
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if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... |
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Posted: 9/20/2014 4:15:28 PM EDT
[#36]
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Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... 
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Posted: 9/20/2014 5:11:19 PM EDT
[#37]
My Stamped Form1 just came in the mail today to SBR my Mini Draco. 5 months mailbox to mailbox using my LLC. I won't touch the arm brace because they look like CRAP and they do not function like a stock unless you want nose riding on the top cover (which I don't). This is not theory for me but fact as I have tried friends SIG Arm Brace on their AK's and AR's. Don't like them so I will stick to the process to SBR.
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Posted: 9/20/2014 8:13:28 PM EDT
[#38]
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Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... SB47 for $125, SBR $200 before parts and installation same functionality sounds like too many people complaining though
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Posted: 9/21/2014 12:01:59 AM EDT
[#39]
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Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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if you can afford a sig brace and ak,, you can afford the tax stamp. Save your breath. I tried explaining. Horses to water, brick walls, and all that.... If you actually believe that Bracing an M92 PAP or a Draco will cost anywhere near the same as turning it into an SBR it doesnt bother me. You are wrong. That doesnt bother me really, but the O.p is asking a question he is obviously has no reference point on. He may believe your subjective version of things not realizing that the circumstances that you base your opinion on are not what the average person will encounter.... $15 engravings and CNC equipped friends and such
Granted that if there were no NFA restrictions on SBR's I wouldn't have a Sig Brace... hell they wouldn't even exist. I know i prefer a stock... but not enough to put with the extra paperwork and restrictions not to mention the extra cost. What is funny about this there are some SBR guys who vehemently are opposed to the Sig Brace... because of looks or ideology ... who knows why. You get people like me who own both and say they are similar ergonomically and each one holds advantages over the other . SBR ideologues will start putting out false parallels like comparable cost and SBR restrictions being a non-factor. Do you guys feel cheated or shorted by the existence of the Sig brace? |
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Posted: 9/21/2014 12:03:40 AM EDT
[#40]
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My Stamped Form1 just came in the mail today to SBR my Mini Draco. 5 months mailbox to mailbox using my LLC. I won't touch the arm brace because they look like CRAP and they do not function like a stock unless you want nose riding on the top cover (which I don't). This is not theory for me but fact as I have tried friends SIG Arm Brace on their AK's and AR's. Don't like them so I will stick to the process to SBR. You gotta have a big nose brother
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Posted: 9/21/2014 11:08:57 AM EDT
[#41]
Here is my PAP 92PV pistol with the SB15 and KAK tube & ACE AR hinge 28 3/4" OAL
Here is mine mocked up with a std AR stock & ACE hinge for SBR looks..  (waiting on the stamp)
I show 28 1/4" OAL when 'collapsed'.. 
The other option would be an ACE PN (pignose) and no hinge to get down to 27 1/2" +/- OAL.. 
To me the positive is the adjustable stock in case I need to go prone with it or hand it to a 'buddy' who is taller with longer arms. I'm going with the MagPul CTR w/friction lock and some other things when I get the stamp (Efiled on 9/10) For now the SB works as it is on my M92 pistol.. granted the SB15 is 12 oz as a regular AR stock (as in the pic is like 7oz).. |
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Posted: 9/21/2014 2:23:43 PM EDT
[#42]
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Here is my PAP 92PV pistol with the SB15 and KAK tube & ACE AR hinge 28 3/4" OAL http://executiveprotectionservice.us/forums/AM92PISTOL/762AKpistol.jpg Here is mine mocked up with a std AR stock & ACE hinge for SBR looks.. (waiting on the stamp)
I show 28 1/4" OAL when 'collapsed'.. http://executiveprotectionservice.us/forums/AM92PISTOL/2814OAL.jpg The other option would be an ACE PN (pignose) and no hinge to get down to 27 1/2" +/- OAL.. http://executiveprotectionservice.us/forums/AM92PISTOL/27OAL.jpg To me the positive is the adjustable stock in case I need to go prone with it or hand it to a 'buddy' who is taller with longer arms. I'm going with the MagPul CTR w/friction lock and some other things when I get the stamp (Efiled on 9/10) For now the SB works as it is on my M92 pistol.. granted the SB15 is 12 oz as a regular AR stock (as in the pic is like 7oz).. Looks good with the ace folder. I am on the fence about turning mine into an SBR. I like stock adjustability |
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