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Posted: 5/29/2012 9:30:18 AM
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
1:10 twist?  Better hope that's a typo... I think it is a mistake (maybe wrong unit conversion). Beryl barrel have 228mm twist, that makes 1/8.97". Originally Posted By JohnnyA:
Does this rifle offer anything over a much less expensive .223 caliber Arsenal or converted Saiga? Cold hammer forged barrel. And FB Radom barrels are quite good. In fact FB Radom makes CHF barrel for Walther for P99 and PPQ pistols. Plus, at least from I can compare here, Beryl is better made. Some insight how guys work in Radom in this video: http://youtu.be/4DXgmvhqA2U. Mostly on new designs (new assault rifle, PPQ, grenade launchers), but you can see beryl parts or barrel blanks in work. But I agree, that what is offered is what it is supposed to. We are pushing guys in Radom to correct that. from this side as well. |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 12:44:43 AM
Originally Posted By Montrala:
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
1:10 twist? Better hope that's a typo... I think it is a mistake (maybe wrong unit conversion). Beryl barrel have 228mm twist, that makes 1/8.97". Originally Posted By JohnnyA:
Does this rifle offer anything over a much less expensive .223 caliber Arsenal or converted Saiga? Cold hammer forged barrel. And FB Radom barrels are quite good. In fact FB Radom makes CHF barrel for Walther for P99 and PPQ pistols. Plus, at least from I can compare here, Beryl is better made. Some insight how guys work in Radom in this video: http://youtu.be/4DXgmvhqA2U. Mostly on new designs (new assault rifle, PPQ, grenade launchers), but you can see beryl parts or barrel blanks in work. But I agree, that what is offered is what it is supposed to. We are pushing guys in Radom to correct that. from this side as well. Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 6:49:01 AM
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 1:07:38 PM
Originally Posted By Montrala:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. |
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VLODPG
Member
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2004  CT, USA
 Posts: 6465 Feedback: 100% (41) Link To This Post |
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:11:47 PM
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By Montrala:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. If I was a betting man, I would say that IO is robisz mnie w gowno |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 9:18:43 AM
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. Maybe IO inc can provide single photo of Polish military personnel with rifle equipped with this "new additon"? 
Only new addition to the military rifles in Polish Armed Forces is adoption of HK416, as standard assault rifle in Special Forces Command (not only in GROM, but in other units as well, like Commando, Nil or Agat - only Formoza keeps HK G36) |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 2:00:22 PM
Originally Posted By Montrala:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. Maybe IO inc can provide single photo of Polish military personnel with rifle equipped with this "new additon"?
Only new addition to the military rifles in Polish Armed Forces is adoption of HK416, as standard assault rifle in Special Forces Command (not only in GROM, but in other units as well, like Commando, Nil or Agat - only Formoza keeps HK G36) We've asked IO for evidence as to the change, but they have yet to provide any. It just seems like a dirty marketing ploy to get people to purchase their overpriced Archers. A lot of people are disappointed with these and I hope that changes and corrections are made so we can have a genuine Archer clone. |
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Posted: 6/2/2012 11:30:01 AM
[Last Edit: 6/2/2012 11:31:24 AM by 590]
I asked them about this too but have received no response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGGFL6Mr0-g&feature=share |
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Posted: 6/2/2012 10:23:20 PM
just wait a year or so for when they're being closed out at CDNN for $700
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Posted: 6/3/2012 9:24:39 PM
Originally Posted By Rocketfish:
just wait a year or so for when they're being closed out at CDNN for $700 That would be a decent price considering how much money would have to go into this rifle to make it look like a military-grade Beryl. |
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:09:26 PM
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right?
On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:27:01 AM
Originally Posted By kaschi:
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right? On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. The lower priced Tantal is a more accurate copy than the Archer. The Archer is NO Beryl! |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:41:28 AM
Originally Posted By insider:
Originally Posted By kaschi:
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right? On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. The lower priced Tantal is a more accurate copy than the Archer. The Archer is NO Beryl! "Archer" is Beryl. It just does not look like one. Only US changes to is if dreaded muzzle device and stock parts and some drilling and cutting in complete rifle made in Poland. Other than that you get real Beryl under disguise (with original FB Radom CHF barrel). Tantal (as available in US) is just bunch of parts from disassembled Tantal, that are thrown together around US made barrel and receiver, isn't it? BTW This is what you can get as civi-legal version of Beryl (called Radom Sport) in Poland (or EU): http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=116 Price in Poland (with one magazine) is: 3,849.90 PLN (about $1100) including 23% VAT tax. AFAIK making one "Archer" is more expensive for FB Radom than making one "Radom Sport" (I mean "core" of the rifle: accessories can be used same), because "Archer" requires more changes to manufacturing process than "Radom Sport" requires. Actually "Sports" are made at end of military batches (with just no FA capability in trigger group and selector removed), while "Archers" calls for special batches and tooling changes (barrel and different parts change for muzzle device and other changes to avoid US import ban are needed). |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 12:43:30 PM
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty!
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:51:39 PM
not for the ridiculous price they want for them,they can keep that shit
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Liquidmetal
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2007 USA
Posts: 6678 Feedback: 100% (17) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/4/2012 8:06:41 PM
Originally Posted By kmb147: Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. |
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Posted: 6/5/2012 2:30:21 PM
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Originally Posted By kmb147:
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. |
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Liquidmetal
Member
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2007 USA
Posts: 6681 Feedback: 100% (17) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/5/2012 4:49:10 PM
Originally Posted By sdrake100: Originally Posted By Liquidmetal: Originally Posted By kmb147: Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. Keep in mind that $1100 figure Montrala threw out there includes a 23% VAT tax. When I have ordered goods from Germany in the past (watches) I have not been required to pay that tax. The vendor in Germany subtracted the VAT tax from my order because I was in the US. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 1:40:24 AM
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Originally Posted By sdrake100:
Originally Posted By Liquidmetal:
Originally Posted By kmb147:
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. Keep in mind that $1100 figure Montrala threw out there includes a 23% VAT tax. When I have ordered goods from Germany in the past (watches) I have not been required to pay that tax. The vendor in Germany subtracted the VAT tax from my order because I was in the US. That's the same as when I order from Rusmilitary. So in reality it should be in the $900 range. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 6:57:58 AM
[Last Edit: 6/6/2012 7:00:24 AM by Montrala]
Originally Posted By kmb147:
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. No problems with Beryl magazines at all. Initially there were problems with translucent ones - troops complained that they are too translucent and OPFOR can see level of ammo left. FB Radom cured this by making them darker. No problems with breakages. I actually have some mags, that I bought used after tour in A-stan. They work like new. Keep in mind that for AK-style 5.56 magazine there is plenty of space to make thick magazine walls and feed lips. Together with right polymer it makes mags that are at same time flexible enough and rigid enough. I know people use Beryl mags (modified - Beryl mags do not have feed ramps in mag) to work in 5.56 Saigas, because Beryl mags give them better reliability. New mags from factory are rather expensive, but used ones are about $7 (black) to $10 (translucent). BTW Please notice that also Polish civi version lacks selector on left side. AFAIK adding selector (even dummy one) is a problem for FB Radom for legal reasons (for Police, if it has selector, it is machine gun, even if selector does not work). |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 5:45:10 PM
Originally Posted By Montrala:
Originally Posted By kmb147:
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. No problems with Beryl magazines at all. Initially there were problems with translucent ones - troops complained that they are too translucent and OPFOR can see level of ammo left. FB Radom cured this by making them darker. No problems with breakages. I actually have some mags, that I bought used after tour in A-stan. They work like new. Keep in mind that for AK-style 5.56 magazine there is plenty of space to make thick magazine walls and feed lips. Together with right polymer it makes mags that are at same time flexible enough and rigid enough. I know people use Beryl mags (modified - Beryl mags do not have feed ramps in mag) to work in 5.56 Saigas, because Beryl mags give them better reliability. New mags from factory are rather expensive, but used ones are about $7 (black) to $10 (translucent). Thanks! I have several Beryl mags (all black) that work perfectly in my Bulgarian SLR-106CR, without any modifications. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 7:25:51 PM
[Last Edit: 6/6/2012 7:26:09 PM by 590]
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Posted: 6/6/2012 8:33:08 PM
That rear stock and pistol grip are completely asinine! WTF were they thinking?
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VLODPG
Member
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2004 CT, USA
Posts: 6476 Feedback: 100% (41) Link To This Post |
Posted: 6/6/2012 8:44:05 PM
[Last Edit: 6/6/2012 8:46:59 PM by VLODPG]
Originally Posted By Rocketfish:
That rear stock and pistol grip are completely asinine! WTF were they thinking? Quit whining about the stock & pistol grip. That is disposable, just for the purpose of the US part count. Focus on the big picture! The Barrel! WTF is that contraption they hung off the barrel. They spec the barrel with a Tantal type profile instead of a straight barrel w/pinned FH as original. Edit! Hell, with the original barrel, it could have been sold in ban states as the barrel is not threaded, just removed the pinned flash hider & bayo lug! |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 8:57:21 PM
If I bought one the grip & stock would be the first thing to go. Surplus folding Beryl stock & rail would be on in no time. Add a US Palm AKBG.
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POL
