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Posted: 5/15/2012 2:31:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I've been following the info from Tuco over on Gunboards, and it sounds like the Archer is going to be a very interesting choice pretty soon. Radom is taking quality very seriously, and the timing is right, what with some of the other usual suspects getting hard to find or disappearing from the market altogether. What do you think? Is the US AK market ready for a high quality Radom made 5.56 NATO Beryl? Az If the price is right, and if it has the military features. |
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Posted: 5/18/2012 4:08:59 PM EDT
[#2]
They're talking well over a grand for the thing. Too, one wonders what mags will cost. For the price it's probably better made than the Radom PPS-43 7.62x25mm pistols.
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Posted: 5/18/2012 5:56:08 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm Josh from I.O. Inc, the company who's importing the Archer rifles. Royal Tiger Imports will be the first to have the Archer's on the market, and they just went up today. I took several images for them just this morning and they recently released an email blast with their first "now shipping" advertisement. The rifles are absolutely beautiful, and an absolute pleasure to shoot! I'm posting a copy of the pictures I took as well as the ad they sent out for your reference, but I'm more than happy to answer any questions you might have for I.O. about these rifles and their features.
http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/eflyers/archer_eflyer_5-18-12.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/Archer_AK47_Right.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/Archer_AK47_lEFT.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/ArcherPic-2.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/ArcherPic-4.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/ArcherPic-5.jpg http://www.royaltigerimports.com/images/stories/ProductImages/LongGuns/ArcherPic-6.jpg |
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Posted: 5/18/2012 10:57:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Hello Josh,
I'm curious if the Archer has a removable or pinned flash hider? Would it be possible to mount a copy of the actual Beryl style flash hider? What are the US compliant parts that are included with the rifle to keep it legal here in the US? What individual parts will you be selling for people who wish to modify their guns or if they need replacement parts? Will you have replacement barrels for this rifle? Thanks |
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Posted: 5/19/2012 2:29:41 AM EDT
[#5]
So close yet so far from being a correct Beryl!
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Posted: 5/19/2012 1:13:07 PM EDT
[#6]
If the flash hider isn't removable, cleaning will be a bitch. I wonder if parts will be avaiable to construct our own. Too expensive for an AK in my book when an AR is the same price. AKs were made to be cheap and reliable, not expensive and reliable. If however the poles make the ak that is the goto for quality, then I tip my hat, but not my wallet.
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Posted: 5/21/2012 4:59:55 AM EDT
[#7]
If the price was under $1000 i would bite, remember your competing with Arsenal.
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Posted: 5/21/2012 6:26:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Too expensive for what you get. By the time I had that rifle the way I wanted it, I would have 2 grand into it.
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Posted: 5/21/2012 12:02:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Too expensive for what you get. By the time I had that rifle the way I wanted it, I would have 2 grand into it. I couldn't agree with you more. |
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Posted: 5/21/2012 8:19:28 PM EDT
[#10]
How is 922r compliance reached is one of my questions...
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Posted: 5/22/2012 12:41:07 AM EDT
[#11]
If the 6 part rule applies, which I'm sure does, then I'd say the three fire control parts, gas piston, PG and buttstock.
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Posted: 5/22/2012 1:38:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
So close yet so far from being a correct Beryl! I know. Why does it have the BHO notch? Totally ruins it. No left side selector, a strange muzzle brake and threading, no top cover rail, no Beryl furniture, no AR mag adapter... Just like what Liquid said, I would be in well over 2 Grand just to have it set up like it should, and getting the correct parts shipped in from Poland is difficult. The base rifle at $1300 is ridiculous. It does nothing that a Bulgarian SLR-106 can't do, and it even has a folding stock. |
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Posted: 5/23/2012 8:50:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Wow, what a flop. 199 for the stock and 199 for the rail (this july!!)? LOL. So 1700 in the gun to be close. Hopefully a real company will import these as a proper beryl. IO sucks, and their builds suck.
For 1700 there are plenty of better options. They must think we have more money than brains. |
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Posted: 5/23/2012 10:02:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Wow, what a flop. 199 for the stock and 199 for the rail (this july!!)? LOL. So 1700 in the gun to be close. Hopefully a real company will import these as a proper beryl. IO sucks, and their builds suck. For 1700 there are plenty of better options. They must think we have more money than brains. Unfortunately, if the Archer is a flop due to the high price of admission, and lacking even the basic features, any future imports may cease. I don't want that to happen. I just want people to be a little realistic about pricing. $1500 for military features, including the top rail, stock, and pistol grip would sell. |
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Posted: 5/24/2012 1:12:20 AM EDT
[#15]
It should come with the rail for that price. Plus the lame I.O. Inc stock & grip need to go.
If I had the funds I would still buy one. I paid less for my SLR-106F. You can get the rail from RTG used for $79.95. The used folding stock goes for $99 
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Posted: 5/24/2012 4:57:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Does this rifle offer anything over a much less expensive .223 caliber Arsenal or converted Saiga?
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Posted: 5/24/2012 11:48:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
So close yet so far from being a correct Beryl! I know. Why does it have the BHO notch? Totally ruins it. No left side selector, a strange muzzle brake and threading, no top cover rail, no Beryl furniture, no AR mag adapter... Just like what Liquid said, I would be in well over 2 Grand just to have it set up like it should, and getting the correct parts shipped in from Poland is difficult. The base rifle at $1300 is ridiculous. It does nothing that a Bulgarian SLR-106 can't do, and it even has a folding stock. Word has it that is the way IO requested the build. FB will build to whatever specification is requested. I wish Ted Marshall got to import them, they would have been correct! |
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Posted: 5/25/2012 12:12:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So close yet so far from being a correct Beryl! I know. Why does it have the BHO notch? Totally ruins it. No left side selector, a strange muzzle brake and threading, no top cover rail, no Beryl furniture, no AR mag adapter... Just like what Liquid said, I would be in well over 2 Grand just to have it set up like it should, and getting the correct parts shipped in from Poland is difficult. The base rifle at $1300 is ridiculous. It does nothing that a Bulgarian SLR-106 can't do, and it even has a folding stock. Word has it that is the way IO requested the build. FB will build to whatever specification is requested. I wish Ted Marshall got to import them, they would have been correct! If this is correct, IO has lost more respect from me. We all wanted an AK that was the semi-auto version of the Polish Military Beryl, not some bastardized version. I just don't get why they would do that. Seems like bad business sense, and being out of touch to me. |
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Posted: 5/25/2012 3:03:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Cool looking rifle but not at that price. Don't see to many of them being sold!
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Posted: 5/25/2012 12:37:43 PM EDT
[#20]
You would pay this much or more for a Saiga converted by Rifle Dynamics or Krebs. To bad its missing some of the features.
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Posted: 5/26/2012 5:11:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Josh, will IO be importing the AR mag adapters?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGGFL6Mr0-g&feature=share |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 4:51:34 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 5/27/2012 10:47:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: 1:10 twist?  Better hope that's a typo... |
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Posted: 5/28/2012 5:43:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Might as well get a Norinco 84s for the same money.
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Posted: 5/28/2012 11:41:36 AM EDT
[#25]
hmm bastardized beryl clone with none of the true beryl features...no thanks. $1300 rotfl...priceless.
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Posted: 5/29/2012 9:30:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Quoted:
1:10 twist? Better hope that's a typo... I think it is a mistake (maybe wrong unit conversion). Beryl barrel have 228mm twist, that makes 1/8.97". Quoted:
Does this rifle offer anything over a much less expensive .223 caliber Arsenal or converted Saiga? Cold hammer forged barrel. And FB Radom barrels are quite good. In fact FB Radom makes CHF barrel for Walther for P99 and PPQ pistols. Plus, at least from I can compare here, Beryl is better made. Some insight how guys work in Radom in this video: http://youtu.be/4DXgmvhqA2U. Mostly on new designs (new assault rifle, PPQ, grenade launchers), but you can see beryl parts or barrel blanks in work. But I agree, that what is offered is what it is supposed to. We are pushing guys in Radom to correct that. from this side as well. |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 12:44:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1:10 twist? Better hope that's a typo... I think it is a mistake (maybe wrong unit conversion). Beryl barrel have 228mm twist, that makes 1/8.97". Quoted:
Does this rifle offer anything over a much less expensive .223 caliber Arsenal or converted Saiga? Cold hammer forged barrel. And FB Radom barrels are quite good. In fact FB Radom makes CHF barrel for Walther for P99 and PPQ pistols. Plus, at least from I can compare here, Beryl is better made. Some insight how guys work in Radom in this video: http://youtu.be/4DXgmvhqA2U. Mostly on new designs (new assault rifle, PPQ, grenade launchers), but you can see beryl parts or barrel blanks in work. But I agree, that what is offered is what it is supposed to. We are pushing guys in Radom to correct that. from this side as well. Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 6:49:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 1:07:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. |
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Posted: 5/30/2012 10:11:47 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Montrala, is it true that the newer manufactured Beryl rifles have that new muzzle brake and barrel threading? It just doesn't seem right. I do not know if anything changed in this matter (in military model at least). Standard Beryl muzzle brake is pinned from factory, as means of fixing it in place (no legal reasons). "Tantal" brake for US market is non standard. AFAIK this is going to change, IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. If I was a betting man, I would say that IO is pelna gowna |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 9:18:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. Maybe IO inc can provide single photo of Polish military personnel with rifle equipped with this "new additon"? 
Only new addition to the military rifles in Polish Armed Forces is adoption of HK416, as standard assault rifle in Special Forces Command (not only in GROM, but in other units as well, like Commando, Nil or Agat - only Formoza keeps HK G36) |
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Posted: 5/31/2012 2:00:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
IO inc. tells us that it's also a new addition to the military rifles. To me, it seems like a step backward. It doesn't really make sense why they would add that strange muzzle brake and the collar above the threading. Maybe IO inc can provide single photo of Polish military personnel with rifle equipped with this "new additon"?
Only new addition to the military rifles in Polish Armed Forces is adoption of HK416, as standard assault rifle in Special Forces Command (not only in GROM, but in other units as well, like Commando, Nil or Agat - only Formoza keeps HK G36) We've asked IO for evidence as to the change, but they have yet to provide any. It just seems like a dirty marketing ploy to get people to purchase their overpriced Archers. A lot of people are disappointed with these and I hope that changes and corrections are made so we can have a genuine Archer clone. |
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Posted: 6/2/2012 11:30:01 AM EDT
[#33]
I asked them about this too but have received no response.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGGFL6Mr0-g&feature=share |
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Posted: 6/2/2012 10:23:20 PM EDT
[#34]
just wait a year or so for when they're being closed out at CDNN for $700
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Posted: 6/3/2012 9:24:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
just wait a year or so for when they're being closed out at CDNN for $700 That would be a decent price considering how much money would have to go into this rifle to make it look like a military-grade Beryl. |
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:09:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right?
On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:27:01 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right? On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. The lower priced Tantal is a more accurate copy than the Archer. The Archer is NO Beryl! |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:41:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just think how easy this all could have been: Make it as original as possible and import it adding the required # of US made parts! They could be doing the same thing with Tantals and AKs. We'd love to have them too, right? On a different note, I'd love to know what IO is getting them for from the factory in Poland. They're probably just trying to make a huge profit on 'em. Maybe if the Poles found an importer who wasn't as greedy, it would be more lucrative. The lower priced Tantal is a more accurate copy than the Archer. The Archer is NO Beryl! "Archer" is Beryl. It just does not look like one. Only US changes to is if dreaded muzzle device and stock parts and some drilling and cutting in complete rifle made in Poland. Other than that you get real Beryl under disguise (with original FB Radom CHF barrel). Tantal (as available in US) is just bunch of parts from disassembled Tantal, that are thrown together around US made barrel and receiver, isn't it? BTW This is what you can get as civi-legal version of Beryl (called Radom Sport) in Poland (or EU): http://en.fabrykabroni.pl/?d=116 Price in Poland (with one magazine) is: 3,849.90 PLN (about $1100) including 23% VAT tax. AFAIK making one "Archer" is more expensive for FB Radom than making one "Radom Sport" (I mean "core" of the rifle: accessories can be used same), because "Archer" requires more changes to manufacturing process than "Radom Sport" requires. Actually "Sports" are made at end of military batches (with just no FA capability in trigger group and selector removed), while "Archers" calls for special batches and tooling changes (barrel and different parts change for muzzle device and other changes to avoid US import ban are needed). |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 12:43:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty!
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:51:39 PM EDT
[#40]
not for the ridiculous price they want for them,they can keep that shit
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Posted: 6/4/2012 8:06:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. |
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Posted: 6/5/2012 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. |
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Posted: 6/5/2012 4:49:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. Keep in mind that $1100 figure Montrala threw out there includes a 23% VAT tax. When I have ordered goods from Germany in the past (watches) I have not been required to pay that tax. The vendor in Germany subtracted the VAT tax from my order because I was in the US. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 1:40:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the info, Montrala! I would readily pay $1100 for Radom Sport. Look at this beauty! http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/630/1015294040493dlaweba.jpg I'd pay $1100 for that as well. Add the AR mag adapter and I'm good. As would I. Not sure why IO thinks theirs commands more $$$ for less features. Keep in mind that $1100 figure Montrala threw out there includes a 23% VAT tax. When I have ordered goods from Germany in the past (watches) I have not been required to pay that tax. The vendor in Germany subtracted the VAT tax from my order because I was in the US. That's the same as when I order from Rusmilitary. So in reality it should be in the $900 range. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 6:57:58 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. No problems with Beryl magazines at all. Initially there were problems with translucent ones - troops complained that they are too translucent and OPFOR can see level of ammo left. FB Radom cured this by making them darker. No problems with breakages. I actually have some mags, that I bought used after tour in A-stan. They work like new. Keep in mind that for AK-style 5.56 magazine there is plenty of space to make thick magazine walls and feed lips. Together with right polymer it makes mags that are at same time flexible enough and rigid enough. I know people use Beryl mags (modified - Beryl mags do not have feed ramps in mag) to work in 5.56 Saigas, because Beryl mags give them better reliability. New mags from factory are rather expensive, but used ones are about $7 (black) to $10 (translucent). BTW Please notice that also Polish civi version lacks selector on left side. AFAIK adding selector (even dummy one) is a problem for FB Radom for legal reasons (for Police, if it has selector, it is machine gun, even if selector does not work). |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 5:45:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
By the way, Montrala, I have a question for you - What do Polish armed forces personnel think about Beryl magazines? There are some guys here in the US that are apprehensive to purchase them because there is less metal reinforcement in Beryl mags than there is in Bulgarian Circle 10 mags (e.g., no steel reinforcement in the rear locking tab makes some fearful that the locking tab will break off). What have you heard - complaints or praises - about the Beryl magazines? Thanks in advance. No problems with Beryl magazines at all. Initially there were problems with translucent ones - troops complained that they are too translucent and OPFOR can see level of ammo left. FB Radom cured this by making them darker. No problems with breakages. I actually have some mags, that I bought used after tour in A-stan. They work like new. Keep in mind that for AK-style 5.56 magazine there is plenty of space to make thick magazine walls and feed lips. Together with right polymer it makes mags that are at same time flexible enough and rigid enough. I know people use Beryl mags (modified - Beryl mags do not have feed ramps in mag) to work in 5.56 Saigas, because Beryl mags give them better reliability. New mags from factory are rather expensive, but used ones are about $7 (black) to $10 (translucent). Thanks! I have several Beryl mags (all black) that work perfectly in my Bulgarian SLR-106CR, without any modifications. |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 7:25:51 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 6/6/2012 8:33:08 PM EDT
[#48]
That rear stock and pistol grip are completely asinine! WTF were they thinking?
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Posted: 6/6/2012 8:44:05 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
That rear stock and pistol grip are completely asinine! WTF were they thinking? Quit whining about the stock & pistol grip. That is disposable, just for the purpose of the US part count. Focus on the big picture! The Barrel! WTF is that contraption they hung off the barrel. They spec the barrel with a Tantal type profile instead of a straight barrel w/pinned FH as original. Edit! Hell, with the original barrel, it could have been sold in ban states as the barrel is not threaded, just removed the pinned flash hider & bayo lug! |
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Posted: 6/6/2012 8:57:21 PM EDT
[#50]
If I bought one the grip & stock would be the first thing to go. Surplus folding Beryl stock & rail would be on in no time. Add a US Palm AKBG.
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